Ball python that thinks its a tree snake! :)

Ok, finally i got my first baby ball python two days ago, with the help from lots of people helping me with my temps from another thread here:D

So i thought would post a thread about his behaviour.

I have a exo terra fake cave wall background made out of foam (u know the ones) and at the top there is about a small inch long and 1 cm deep cut on each side, i think made by the previous owner. I use the fake wall to shorten the length of my cage.

I assumed that my baby ball would not get any where near the holes to the other side, but first time in his new cage he got straight up to one of the holes and was kinda just exploring around for a while, not actually going over. I then decided to show him his hot hide where he stayed almost all day and night (normal!) Then i woke at two times in the night to find him hanging around both different holes, proped like a tree boa!

Im not particulary worried as his temps are spot on, humidity good and he seems relaxed and not aggresive. But i thought that balls, especially babys would stay practically rooted to the ground, i know some adults do like to climb.

Shall i cover teh holes to stop him getting to the otehr side, although he doesnt seem to want to or let him carry on being a tree python:)

Just thought i would share with you, and wondered if you have any thoughts?

Thanks

matt

Henry is a 6 week old male pastel, and beautiful!

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Originally Posted by ms381

Ok, finally i got my first baby ball python two days ago, with the help from lots of people helping me with my temps from another thread here:D

So i thought would post a thread about his behaviour.

I have a exo terra fake cave wall background made out of foam (u know the ones) and at the top there is about a small inch long and 1 cm deep cut on each side, i think made by the previous owner. I use the fake wall to shorten the length of my cage.

I assumed that my baby ball would not get any where near the holes to the other side, but first time in his new cage he got straight up to one of the holes and was kinda just exploring around for a while, not actually going over. I then decided to show him his hot hide where he stayed almost all day and night (normal!) Then i woke at two times in the night to find him hanging around both different holes, proped like a tree boa!

Im not particulary worried as his temps are spot on, humidity good and he seems relaxed and not aggresive. But i thought that balls, especially babys would stay practically rooted to the ground, i know some adults do like to climb.

Shall i cover teh holes to stop him getting to the otehr side, although he doesnt seem to want to or let him carry on being a tree boa:)

Just thought i would share with you, and wondered if you have any thoughts?

Thanks

matt

Henry is a 6 week old male pastel, and beautiful!

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I dont know if its normal cause i just got my ball also, but she gets to places where im like woah! How did you get there! I dont even know if she can get back down! She is extremely active and goes everywhere its actually pretty awesome.

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Originally Posted by []$(@R

I dont know if its normal cause i just got my ball also, but she gets to places where im like woah! How did you get there! I dont even know if she can get back down! She is extremely active and goes everywhere its actually pretty awesome.

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I was thinking about how he may get down as well, but i left him up there over night and he got back down just fine into his warm hide by the morning.
Im am not an expert and also it is my first snake, but i would think it was better that the snake to be active and wanting to explore rather than keeping balled up in his warm hide all the time?

Thats just my thoughts.

Glad your enjoying your snakes habits to, it seems every snake has its own habits and personalities. If you hear aymore about this subject do let me know.

Thanks

Matt:D

I had a ball years ago that I alway thought was part tree snake, she would always be found hanging out on her branch in the tank. Snakes are like any other animal, the breed has certain characteristics but each animal is its one individual

This is where I question the almost universal thinking that "balls are perfectly fine in tubs" attitude. Mine ALL like to climb and explore, particularly at night, and I feel we should be providing the option for them to do so.

Impossible to provide for this activity in a tub that is 5" tall...

Chris

agreed, they dont need monster tanks but they need more than a shoe box

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Originally Posted by mumps

This is where I question the almost universal thinking that "balls are perfectly fine in tubs" attitude. Mine ALL like to climb and explore, particularly at night, and I feel we should be providing the option for them to do so.

Impossible to provide for this activity in a tub that is 5" tall...

Chris

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mumps

This is where I question the almost universal thinking that "balls are perfectly fine in tubs" attitude. Mine ALL like to climb and explore, particularly at night, and I feel we should be providing the option for them to do so.

Impossible to provide for this activity in a tub that is 5" tall...

Chris

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I agree with your comment, and actually have not thought about the tank vs tub issue in that way before. I just naturally thought that it was the owners preferance as it would not effect the snake being in a small tub, this is what most care sheets and you tube videos show. I can understand the use of tubs from a breeders point of view for practicality, but maybe owners should provide more climbing space?

Yes it is harder to keep temps stable and humidity in, but it is possible with a little work. I spent a whole week getting it right before my baby ball went in. Now i think his enjoying his tank with those places to climb and hang out in. When he first went in as i said before he stretched his whole body up to the roof of the cage, so height of the tank and climbing may play an important part of his life.

Would be good to still here others point of view, tank vs tub. Ground dwellers and climbers?

My ball pythons do not climb. However, my corn snake is a different story--she burrows into her bedding AND somehow, though she is only 4 months old and teeny tiny, has made it to the top of the 10 gallon tank she resides in, where she hung for several hours (wedged between the lid and the tank itself). I have NO idea how she got there.
As for BP's climbing, you could say it either way, but perhaps it's that "they only use what is there". If they have a log to climb, perhaps some will seem happy to climb and explore, but if they don't have one, they will never miss it or suffer. Ball pythons in the wild prefer to live in grasslands, savannahs, and SPARSELY wooded areas. Most of those places have tall grass but not much for trees.
I definitely think they're happy in a tub, but they're probably just as happy in a tank (with proper temps and humidity), with or without something to climb.
If you didn't know soda existed, you wouldn't want it....right?

Mine likes to climb on the thermometers stuck on the side of the cage.

She's not exactly too graceful at getting down from there though.

I used to think it was cute too till they fell several times, I only use tubs now.
Hearing 1900 gram snakes fall in the middle of the night isn't pleasant :P
Tanks are pretty but tubs keep them in better husbandry IMO

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/PICT0651.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/PICT9887.jpg

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I used to think it was cute too till they fell several times, I only use tubs now.
Hearing 1900 gram snakes fall in the middle of the night isn't pleasant :P
Tanks are pretty but tubs keep them in better husbandry IMO

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/PICT0651.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/PICT9887.jpg

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Ok, if can assume that aboreal snakes are not going to fall of branches etc as thats how they have best evolved. So then are we offering ball pythons something that is not natural to them, as someone above mentioned there natural environement that doesnt have any trees or shrubbery to climb. So bp are not good climbers?

In my opinion i think its better to at least give the snake the option to climb and in the wild they would surley come across more challenges and danger than a small fall from a branch in a tank.

I assume the husbudary issue depends on the person really, if you like a tank setup its going to take more time but if thats what you like and want to put the effort in it could be a good option :) good to get chatting with u on the thread

I'm not sure I would agree that "they climb because they like to". I'm more into the thinking of "they climb because they want to get out".

I believe that a hiding bp is a content and safe bp. An exploring bp... is either stressed out/hungry/looking for the escape route.

I completely believe that tubs are better for bp's than tanks because there's not as much stuff to mess up on. I have maintained 4 decked-out display tanks for 2 years and I've gotten it down to a science. It is hard work. Now that we have 7 bp's... I can't maintain them all. So, I'm keeping the 3 babies in their tubs until I figure out a better alternative.

Below is an image of my stressed bp on a tree. She was our first snake and the store owner said she'll do well in the giant exo-terra tank... cost me an arm and a leg but I thought it was what they needed! That was before I learned what ball pythons are. The snake was constantly climbing the tree trying to get out. She was a finicky eater, shed in pieces, very nervous (goes into strike mode at the drop of a hat). I finally moved her to a 20gallon long and she was a much calmer snake then. Never climbed the tree since. She started eating like clockwork. The kids love handling her - she was very docile after we got her all situated properly. And yes, we don't see her much in the tank anymore. She stays hiding majority of the time.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ss07/Curly.jpg

Stressed out strike mode!
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/curly3.jpg

If you check out my avatar, that's my other snake in a 20gallon climbing his tree. That was his first day in that enclosure. He climbed the tree for the first 2 days and then settled down after that - you rarely see him then. He's either in his hide or crossing to the floor to get a drink or move to the other hide. That's the only time you see him. He is now in a 30gallon and still, you rarely see him. My kids handle him almost everyday, but once he is back in his enclosure, he is back in his hide. So really, that 30 gallon space is nothing but eye-candy for me. Sure not doing that bp much difference.

Anyway, that's just my experience from my tree-climbers in my meager 2 years of owning snakes.

Since they are not great climbers, I do not offer the option. Sometimes you will see a thread about an injury a bp has gotten from falling and hitting their head, spine, etc. It can indeed be detrimental to the snake if he does fall. Since snakes can not tell us if they are in pain, it is up to us be be very observant, and make sure they are safe!

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Originally Posted by anatess

I'm not sure I would agree that "they climb because they like to". I'm more into the thinking of "they climb because they want to get out".

I believe that a hiding bp is a content and safe bp. An exploring bp... is either stressed out/hungry/looking for the escape route.

I completely believe that tubs are better for bp's than tanks because there's not as much stuff to mess up on. I have maintained 4 decked-out display tanks for 2 years and I've gotten it down to a science. It is hard work. Now that we have 7 bp's... I can't maintain them all. So, I'm keeping the 3 babies in their tubs until I figure out a better alternative.

Below is an image of my stressed bp on a tree. She was our first snake and the store owner said she'll do well in the giant exo-terra tank... cost me an arm and a leg but I thought it was what they needed! That was before I learned what ball pythons are. The snake was constantly climbing the tree trying to get out. She was a finicky eater, shed in pieces, very nervous (goes into strike mode at the drop of a hat). I finally moved her to a 20gallon long and she was a much calmer snake then. Never climbed the tree since. She started eating like clockwork. The kids love handling her - she was very docile after we got her all situated properly. And yes, we don't see her much in the tank anymore. She stays hiding majority of the time.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ss07/Curly.jpg

Stressed out strike mode!
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/curly3.jpg

If you check out my avatar, that's my other snake in a 20gallon climbing his tree. That was his first day in that enclosure. He climbed the tree for the first 2 days and then settled down after that - you rarely see him then. He's either in his hide or crossing to the floor to get a drink or move to the other hide. That's the only time you see him. He is now in a 30gallon and still, you rarely see him. My kids handle him almost everyday, but once he is back in his enclosure, he is back in his hide. So really, that 30 gallon space is nothing but eye-candy for me. Sure not doing that bp much difference.

Anyway, that's just my experience from my tree-climbers in my meager 2 years of owning snakes.

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The picture of the stressed snake is really interesting to me. This is my first snake and although i researched ball pythons for a year, nothing compares to owning one.

So going back to the picture, when i saw mine at the top of my tank (mentioned in the first comment) this was his posistion?

I will just clear up some things and then hope you can advise on whats best.

My tank is large BUT have made it smaller, hence the use of the exo terra fake wall which he climbs up to. Its 60 cm w and about 30 cm wide, maybe a bit to large but i have covered alot of his vision so he wont feel to stressed (hopefully).

I have two hides, 1 cool 1 warm and a small log thing that acts as a hide in the middle, i aslo have fake plants that i assume his using also to get to the top of the wall.

One question: do you think i should remove the wall and plants so theres no chance to get up there?

One comment: Im offering alot of hidding space for him so the options are there to hide if his stressed or feels threatend, so i assumed him going up there and being active was a good sign. However seeing your picture, thats how he was when at the top?

Edit: He only goes to the top of the cage at night (apart from the first introduction to the cage), last two days his been tucked up his warm hide during the day and most of the night.

Wow i didnt know that her moving was bad so my goal is have her in her hide all the time? Ive never heard of that but im new to ball pythons so idk i have to see where im going wrong.

lol my snake mali seems to think i am his tree. every time i pull him outta his tube he will wrapp around my arm and make his way up to my neck, wrap around my ponytail and strech out really far up in the air and wave slightly like a car intena. then when my guy comes up to me to hug me or to talk to me he get's into S curve till my man walkes off, then mali gose right back to pretending he's a intena. it's cute.

They shouldn't spend 99% of the time in the hide but a large majority of it. They like to feel secure and hidden. And even though being active can be a sign of stress it can also just be the snake exploring at night, getting a drink, or just hungry. I wouldn't say a snake climbing a branch means its super stressed at all.

I am not at home currently but I do have respected references for climbing ball pythons, that can and often will if given a chance. Nothing is wrong a ball python that spends some time exploring and or climbing whatever. Mine spend a few hours day 3 days a week doing stuff outside the hides a day or two after feeding days... The range of natural behaviour is restricted. My balls in tubs behave differently that the ones in naturalistic enclosures. I am not saying unhealthy just they don't display the same range. I believe that a ball python that hides 99% of the time is not normal either and when I am home I can provide references for this as well.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I am not at home currently but I do have respected references for climbing ball pythons, that can and often will if given a chance. Nothing is wrong a ball python that spends some time exploring and or climbing whatever. Mine spend a few hours day 3 days a week doing stuff outside the hides a day or two after feeding days... The range of natural behaviour is restricted. My balls in tubs behave differently that the ones in naturalistic enclosures. I am not saying unhealthy just they don't display the same range. I believe that a ball python that hides 99% of the time is not normal either and when I am home I can provide references for this as well.

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Thanks kitedemon, i will look forward to reading those for sure when you post them :) also thanks for the help with on my other thread i posted about my setup and temps, alls fine now with the temps and the habistat thermostat is working well:D

I havnt tried feeding henry yet, i will try on sunday so i dont know if the climbing is a sign of stress. I suppose if he feeds on sunday, i will leave him to his climbing as its not high and doesnt seem to pose any danger for him.

Ball pythons are not graceful, they will fall down if they climb on stuff sooner or later and they might get injured.

Sorry for the delay in responding I had help with a huge emergency re-location of more than a 100 ball pythons.

Ok so get back to the climbing issues I have yet to find a reputable reference that says a ball python will not climb if given the chance. I believe that tubs are fine homes and so are enclosures. It comes to a logistical issue of space. A naturalistic enclosure will allow the snake a wider range of 'normal' behaviour. Philippe de Vosjoli has written extensively on this subject.


" A ball python will usually begin spending more time in water just days before shedding. After about five days of swimming and then sunbathing, the ball python will be ready to shed. It will spend hours rubbing against a rock or tree to loosen its skin before sliding completely out." - David Barker

"In the wild, ball pythons are mostly active at night. They spend most of the daylight hours hiding in holes or other shelters." B Cornett Ultimate Guide to Ball Pythons

"...Under these conditions, my ball pythons are healthy, ACTIVE and eating regularly." B Cornett Ultimate Guide to Ball Pythons

"Starting in the early evening, even if the lights are still on, ball pythons will emerge from their shelters. If hungry they will hunt and may even climb on branches close to the ground." Philippe de Vosjoli 'The Art of Keeping Snakes'

"Despite being heavy bodied, Ball Pythons can climb adeptly. We there-fore provide a minimum cage height of two feet and elevated perches." Bartlett and Bartlett 'Snakes'

A snake that is inactive is either sick, or is just not getting any stimulus to kick in normal instinct. There is no logical process that can assume that in the wild a ball python will enter a hole and never leave its whole life. They must hunt and breed and will have to move around to do so.

My second biggest climbs a lot and all the smaller ones do. The others some do some don't it isn't a sign of things are wrong as long as it isn't all the time and during the day. Mine are out and about 3 or 4 nights a week just after feeding they 98% of the time will hide. If I am changing water or cleaning most will peek out to see what is up.

Glad to help, I hope that this doesn't spark some long much hashed over debate.
Alex

bman123,
I agree they are not the most graceful climbers, have you ever spent time watching yours climb?

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Originally Posted by ms381

The picture of the stressed snake is really interesting to me. This is my first snake and although i researched ball pythons for a year, nothing compares to owning one.

So going back to the picture, when i saw mine at the top of my tank (mentioned in the first comment) this was his posistion?

I will just clear up some things and then hope you can advise on whats best.

My tank is large BUT have made it smaller, hence the use of the exo terra fake wall which he climbs up to. Its 60 cm w and about 30 cm wide, maybe a bit to large but i have covered alot of his vision so he wont feel to stressed (hopefully).

I have two hides, 1 cool 1 warm and a small log thing that acts as a hide in the middle, i aslo have fake plants that i assume his using also to get to the top of the wall.

One question: do you think i should remove the wall and plants so theres no chance to get up there?

One comment: Im offering alot of hidding space for him so the options are there to hide if his stressed or feels threatend, so i assumed him going up there and being active was a good sign. However seeing your picture, thats how he was when at the top?

Edit: He only goes to the top of the cage at night (apart from the first introduction to the cage), last two days his been tucked up his warm hide during the day and most of the night.

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Yeah, hiding during the day is what they do. They come out at night... usually when everybody is already asleep. I just know they do because I've spent many sleepless nights just sitting in the office where the tanks are just waiting for them to come out. The first few weeks we had them, they're cruising all over the place, climbing up the glass wall. Have you ever seen them climb up the glass wall and only 1/4 of their body is left on the ground? Then after a minute or two you hear the big "FLOP" when they can't hold themselves up anymore? Yeah, mine do that when you move them to a new tank. It freaks them out. It takes them a while to settle back in.

They try to climb up after cruising the entire perimeter of the tank looking for a weak spot. When they get on that tree, they can stretch their necks out and feel the screen up top and I guess they instinctively realize it is the weakest spot. So, they go up there over and over as much as they can to find a way out. I've seen my first 2 snakes do this the first week. That pastel snake I showed you a picture of actually successfully popped the screen top of that exo-terra tank. That's one of the reasons I moved the snake to a Zilla one with the slide-out screen top. They can't pop that one up.

My snakes still explore their tanks, but I haven't seen any of them climb anymore. I rarely see them roam - they do their exploring at night. But, I know they haven't climbed the tree because the leaves are still on it. When they climb the tree all the leaves gets pushed out of the way and I have to re-arrange them in the morning.

The strike-mode is an instinctive defense pose. If my snakes are not stressed, they would pull their head under their coils when they're startled. If they're stressed (shedding, new move, etc.), they go immediately on strike mode. When they're climbing on a tree - or even when they're just getting used to being handled, they are not as secure as if they're on the ground. So, their instinct is to go on that strike pose.

Each of my snakes are different from each other. My 3rd snake, I already had lots of experience when I got her. So, when she went into her tank for the first time, I knew to put her on a 10 gallon all decked out with hardly any "air space". She still had a tree that hovered above the water bowl to provide a little security when she's drinking. I never saw her climb that tree. I didn't see her climb the walls of the tank either. But, she would slither in and out of tree trunk on the ground, slither around the water bowl and the 2 hides to check them out on her first week - day and night. It could very well be that she's just not the climber type. But, the previous owner told me she's a nervous snake and hasn't eaten in over 3 months before I got her (I got her for cheap because of that - she's an albino). I fed her a week after I got her and she ate within seconds and has been eating consistently since. So, I don't know. I like to believe that the tank set-up gave her a secure environment that she easily adjusted to.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l.../sunshine2.jpg

My kids handle the snakes almost daily (too much, if you ask me) when they get home from school. So, that's around 3PM or so. The snakes just got used to it now, I guess because that's when they do a lot of their tongue-flicking, periscoping, curiousity thing. Either that, or they just stay in a ball the whole time sleeping or what-not.

Yes, in the wild, they explore... but that's mainly to find food and water. Since we're handing them their food and their water in our own little set-ups, there's really not much incentive for them to explore about.

My balls come out and "explore" on a regular basis, I know they're not stressed as they eat and shed on a regular basis without any issues whatsoever. They also do climb when given the chance, although since they aren't the most graceful of creatures their branches are never more than 4- 6" off the ground.

I took him out yesterday but he was very scared, didnt move at all in my hands and was in defensive position the whole time so i just put him straight back. He then went straight for the top of the tank, and as you said was looking for a way out, he then tucked himself between the fake leafs and wall for about an hour before going back into his hide.

I think i have made a mistake however. i gave him a settling in period of 5 days before i got him out, his now been out 3 times. The second was to try to get him to feed, but he didnt. I have now since read that i shouldnt of handled him at all untill he has had his first meal.

Im now going to leave him completly for two days and then offer food. After that i will hope that he stops climbing so much and will settle down.

Its my first snake so all lessons learnt. Just done wont him him to be stressed:(

Climbing isn't a sure sign of stressed but somewhere I missed that it was two days with you. It sounds like stress check all the temps and let him alone try to forget about him (kinda anyway) check the temps (this is where probe style ones are good) make sure you know the interior temps both hot and cold I personally being a bit (ok a lot OCD) need to check the ambient temps too (a probe about halfway up the side and between the hot and cold sides. Top up the water and leave it a lone for 7 days or a bit more then pre sent the enclosure (thawed rat by the vents) and then try to tempt him.

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Originally Posted by ms381

I took him out yesterday but he was very scared, didnt move at all in my hands and was in defensive position the whole time so i just put him straight back. He then went straight for the top of the tank, and as you said was looking for a way out, he then tucked himself between the fake leafs and wall for about an hour before going back into his hide.

I think i have made a mistake however. i gave him a settling in period of 5 days before i got him out, his now been out 3 times. The second was to try to get him to feed, but he didnt. I have now since read that i shouldnt of handled him at all untill he has had his first meal.

Im now going to leave him completly for two days and then offer food. After that i will hope that he stops climbing so much and will settle down.

Its my first snake so all lessons learnt. Just done wont him him to be stressed:(

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I'm still on my first snake. I completely ignored/didn't know about the settling period, so I was holding mine the first day. Mine definitely isn't stressed, eats regularly, and has never struck at me, so I wouldn't worry about whether you did long term damage to your snake by holding it too soon.

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Originally Posted by mumps

This is where I question the almost universal thinking that "balls are perfectly fine in tubs" attitude. Mine ALL like to climb and explore, particularly at night, and I feel we should be providing the option for them to do so.

Impossible to provide for this activity in a tub that is 5" tall...

Chris

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This is true and i agree but once you have more than 4 or 5 snakes having them in tanks gets to be a pain to clean, etc etc. So tubs is usually what is used.

I think we need to provide them with proper husbandry before worrying about climbing since they are ground snakes.

Tanks are great for fish :P

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Originally Posted by anatess

I'm not sure I would agree that "they climb because they like to". I'm more into the thinking of "they climb because they want to get out".

I believe that a hiding bp is a content and safe bp. An exploring bp... is either stressed out/hungry/looking for the escape route.

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No, mine climb because they like to. I've only had them 2 years, but I have a dozen of them. If you put them on a bookshelf, some will go up, and some will go down. They don't always go the same way every time, but the same snakes will tend to climb up time after time. And I have one or two that are actually surprisingly good at it.

And the one time I had a mass escape (the lock on my Black Sand tank was broken, and the black pastel girl figured out how to slide open the screen) they all did exactly what they usually do: The black pastel climbed the buffet in the other room and went cruising through our booze collection, and my 2007 girl who likes to climb ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING actually climbed out of her tank, CLIMBED THE STAIRS, and then started climbing bookshelves up there.

And my pied female, who's competing for the World's Laziest Snake, stayed in her hide the whole time.

Also, I wonder if exercise maybe isn't something we should think about more. Sure they spend 22 hours a day hiding, and they need that to be happy, but they do come out in the middle of the night and cruise. On days 4-7 (if I feed on day 1) they usually cruise quite a bit.

I've heard that corn snake females need exercise to avoid becoming egg bound. But we're mostly interested in the size of our ball python girls, not their musculature. Sometimes I wonder if that's a mistake.

I also wonder iif some of the things we believe are "good" for ball pythons aren't because they're the most convenient for us. It's pretty much impossible to maintain a collection larger than 20 snakes without using tubs, right? And once they're safely in the tubs, and we don't visit them every day, we don't really notice that they're all coming out and moving around for 2 hours every night.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

And my pied female, who's competing for the World's Laziest Snake, stayed in her hide the whole time.

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AWESOME LOL my girl does this

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/91-3kgt/034.jpg

and it scares the crap outa me its a good 8 or 9 inch drop from there

My goal (eventually) is to move my BPs and adult corns into 61Q tub racks. These offer the same floor space as the usual sorts of tubs but more height, so I can offer something to climb on while maintaining the humidity & temp control tubs offer. My 2010 spider is a big stay-in-the-hide gal, while my adult normal likes to move around, and even lie ON TOP of his hides, and he likes to climb bookcases if placed on one, so I think he might like a climbing branch as well.

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Originally Posted by Austin236

This is true and i agree but once you have more than 4 or 5 snakes having them in tanks gets to be a pain to clean, etc etc. So tubs is usually what is used.

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I'm currently experimenting on a Tub-Tank. It's a tub decked out like a tank. It is 12" tall. It is definitely much easier to maintain - humidity, temps, cleaning. Very light, so I can carry it to the water spigot to hose it down without a problem. And the coolest part is that the lid is solid - so even if the snake decides to climb the branch, he can't push anything out/break the screen/break the lock/ etc.

Here's a picture:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/photo-36.jpg

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/photo-37.jpg

It's too soon to tell if this works, of course - I've only had them for 2 days. But so far, so good.

It's probably still not an easy enough alternative for those with 50+ snakes...

Anatess - that's neat! Where'd you get it? Can you get them at home depot or lowe's?

Anatess - that's neat! Where'd you get it? Can you get them at home depot or lowe's? Oh, and how much were they?

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Originally Posted by anatess

I'm currently experimenting on a Tub-Tank. It's a tub decked out like a tank.

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Ditto, that is neat! Did you make it?

This is difinately a great comprimise and also would address some of the arguements about ball pythons climbing and the use of tubs over tanks for husbandry reasons, mentioned a few posts back. I certainly would have looked into getting one of those over by exo terra tank,.

If any one finds out if you can get them in Europe, it would be great to know:D

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Originally Posted by ms381

This is difinately a great comprimise and also would address some of the arguements about ball pythons climbing and the use of tubs over tanks for husbandry reasons, mentioned a few posts back. I certainly would have looked into getting one of those over by exo terra tank,.

If any one finds out if you can get them in Europe, it would be great to know:D

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Hah! It's EASIER to get it in the UK than here in the States actually!

You're probably familiar with it already. It's called a RUB... which is short for Really Useful Box.

I like it over sterilite/rubbermaid/iris/etc because it is made of thicker plastic so it is more rigid. A snake cannot bend that lid unlike sterilites that you have to tie down with bungee or something.

Basically, I got the 64L size RUB because it is 12" tall... the 50L size is the same floor-space but it is only 8" tall. The 33L size is also the same floor space but 5" tall.

I carved out a square piece out of one side with a dremmel and screwed in an 18"x10" sheet of plexiglass. I could have glued it in instead, but I wanted to be able to take out the sheet if I need to deep clean the tub.

Unfortunately, the RUB is a European product so it is not readily available in the States. They sell them in Staples and Office Depot but the stores by my house don't carry the 64L nor the 50L. So, I had to order them online.

The snake hasn't tried climbing that tree at all. Not even once. I know because the leaves are still where they were when I put them in. If he climbed that tree, those leaves will be flattened out and falling off the branch...

P.S. The lid on the 64L size has a small gap in the design. So, it's not a good idea to use for a bp under 100 grams (it's not a good idea anyway because it is too big). I got the 4L size for my hatchlings.

Not sure if any ones following this thread any more, but just an update.

The reason i started the thread was because was my first ball python and he was only 6 weeks old and climbing all the time.

He has now reduced the climbing in his cage, using his cold and warm hides nearly all the time. I dont see him during the day, pops his head out sometimes late evening, and ive seen him around in the early hours. So all very normal.

Finally, after 3 tries on a f/t hopper using gerbil litter, leaving it in the cage etc i finally gave him his first live mouse (now suggested by the breeder) which he ambushed from his hide, with a clean stike :D

So all in all, very happy as i have a settled bp and he has ate his first meal with meal!

Cheers for the responses on this thread

Good job, leave him alone for 48 hours after the meal and start handling slowly. I personally start with just touching the sides for a while and do that a few min a week for a couple of weeks then pick him up and hold him for a bit then let him down again. GO Slow and you will end up with a snake that is well adjusted.

My Gizmo ambushes from her hide too. She won't come out and "hunt" his food down. Lazy critter...lol

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Originally Posted by Brie

My Gizmo ambushes from her hide too. She won't come out and "hunt" his food down. Lazy critter...lol

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it took an hour for the mouse to come by his hide, i was there the whole time waiting to make sure he was ok with the mouse. And my snake henry had his tiny head just poking out, when the mouse came past he launched right out the hide, i have it on video but it scared the %#&?! out of me and i jumped so i am embarressed to put it on you tube. I may put it on here post the link when i get over the embaressment lol! it was a good stike :)

Thanks for the advice (the response above) i will go slowly but need to clean his cage as its full of mouse poop!:(