Spider troubles - paranoia?

So here's the story... It's going to be a bit lengthy, but I want to cover everything.

I bought my spider male in august of 2009 and he was delivered to me October 14th, 2009. In a combination of ignorance of ball python care and buying my first python from a not so great breeder, he had a rough start in his new home. He came to me dehydrated, and I was uninformed of what he had been eating, despite asking a few times (no reply to emails after sale was made). He didn't eat for the first 5 weeks I had him, he was refusing f/t, and I was rehabing him in the best way I could. Things worked themselves out, and after coming here and asking other places I offered him live and he ate for the first time with me. (I did not feed him while treating him for dehydration, I was terrified the stress on his body from trying to heal and getting better would kill him)

The following February (by this point I knew what I was doing), I noticed he hadn't really had much substantial weight gain, and after seeking advice I took a fecal sample to the only exotic vet in my area. The test came back negative for parasites, but she treated him with panacur and metronidazole(sp?) in case the sample was "tainted." He took another dose of both a few weeks later, and started to gain a bit of weight the following month, though through the months after I noticed he was still kinda skinny. Throughout this time, he was on a 4 day feeding schedule of pre-killed rat pups and weanling rats. Presently, he's eating small and medium f/t rats, every 4-5 days.

After a couple of months, I went onto a message board, yahoo answers I think, and asked about his lack of weight gain. I was told that he'd probably be a little skinny for a while yet - that he'd grow long and not wide due to the rough start he had. Thinking I was being overly paranoid I took the advice and left it at that.

Recently, those sneaky little thoughts of 'something might be wrong' have slunk back into my brain, and I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid or should actually be concerned. He's getting really picky with food(refused his last meal altogether), and I dunno if it's just me, but I still think he's too skinny despite his 1 yr old status and his feeding schedule. His wobble, which wasn't that bad as a hatchling, has gotten pretty bad, and out of fear that he might have parasites again I put him in QT away from everyone else a few weeks ago. I also took a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teokOR7S6BU

Should I consider another vet visit? Could his lack of weight gain be parasites, or is it just his body "evening out" from his rough start? Sometimes he looks like he's at a healthy weight, but after refusing his last meal and being on empty, he does look too skinny to me :/ I don't want to do anything that will make him stress... his wobble is already pretty prominent, so please any and all advice is welcome!!!!

NOTE: His hot spot is not really 84, the probe for that accurite doesn't stick and he moves it all the time. I know the water is really shallow, but I did that on purpose because he'll go and wobble in it and submerge his head upside down and I'm afraid of him drowning. And he spills it everywhere. This is a temporary set up, I'm fixing it over the next few days.

Also, this is not a thread about why you should or shouldn't own a spider because of its wobble. If you have a comment about your opinion on spiders, please, post it in one of the many threads that have already been started on the subject.

And just as a side note, he's the only reptile I've ever owned that I've had this much trouble with. All of my other bp's are typical fat and healthy, never really had a problem with them... I'm stumped and worried.

well she certainly has a wicked wicked corkscrew going on.

Couple of questions....do you have any boas or has it been around any boas in the last 3 months?

Do you have 2 of the same hides one on the cool side and one on the warm side?

What are your temps and how are you controlling your heating device.

A couple things come to mind...first of all IBD from being exposed to a Boa. Or this could be a heat issue and the temp spiked and caused this. As far as her being to skinny...I don't think she is at all. Typically they will get a pyramid shape and you will see a pronounced backbone when they are too skinny.

Not IBD, I've never owned a boa and never will just for that reason, and he's had that wobble for a few months now. He's still eating and everything, despite missing his last meal. Just a crazy wobble that's picked up with age. At my work (zoo) there's a boa, but I only ever go near it to feed him, and when I get home I shower, wear clean clothes, and use hand sanitizer before going into any of the rooms that have snakes in them.

I even keep my sneakers outside for fear of giving my cat worms from pooh I've stepped in.

Heat pad is hooked up to a thermostat, hot spot never goes over 92 degrees. I don't use a second hide, just cuz he's in a rack system, and doesn't really need one because it's always dark... I took him out to sit on my desk for this video, because I shot it with my computer cam (only cam I have) and I couldn't hold it over the tub from his height without dropping my laptop.

Ambient temp is 83-85 depending on time of day, cool spot is 79, 80.

I dunno.. maybe because he's on empty he looks skinny, but compared to the ball pythons I've seen he looks like a noodle. I know he's not desperately skinny but I can't help but feel like he's too small in gurth

^ my first thought is ibd too and he dosent look skinny. how much dose he weigh and length? i would say a vet trip is in order becuse that looks like ibd

If it were IBD he'd be dead already - it's very aggressive in pythons and at the longest, takes like two months to kill them.

That wobble has progressed with age, and has been prominent like that, at the very least, since June.

That is some of the worst cork crewing I've seen, I'm inclined to agree with Michelle, looks s&s of ibd to me, but you said not around boas.

Couple of things, This is by no means set in stone but considering the age and time of year I wouldnt be concerned with missing meals (even quite a few in a row). IMO your spider appears "normal" aside from some major corkscrew which could be made more prominent by stress of moving him to another enclosure (if that tub isnt the normal enclosure). Here is another example of a decent amount of corkscrew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA4lBpoPIWY I would also switch the water bowl for a smaller crock style bowl.

He doesn't wobble like that ALL the time either, if I made it sound that way. It's like, 1 am here, and he does it late it at night when he does his nightly cruise. The rest of the time, he's happy normal in his hide. :/

I was mostly worried about weight, and if he looked to skinny. I'm used to looking at big plump ball pythons, so in comparison to the adults I've seen he looks like a noodle.. I'm probably just being paranoid, though, if no one else thinks so :)

He is a train wreck wobbler... though not always, and thank you malcolm for the other video, it makes me feel not so freaked about his own wobble, though it's still something I'll keep an eye on. Hopefully his food refusal is just due to maturity.. he's always been a little picky anyways.

Oh my :[ ....
That is a very bad corkscrew...wobble....
Does that bother you at all or are you just concerned with her weight. She looks good to me.
But oh boy that corkscrew scares me. Im not sure I would breed her either.
As long as she can eat well though and there is no way it is IBD, then she should flourish.

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Originally Posted by MissLeMew

He doesn't wobble like that ALL the time either, if I made it sound that way. It's like, 1 am here, and he does it late it at night when he does his nightly cruise.

The rest of the time, he's happy normal in his hide. :/

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IMO the corkscrew is more noticeable during the night with spiders and spider combos (Some more so than others).Again your animal looks normal (for a spider)IMO.

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Originally Posted by Generationshell

Oh my :[ ....
That is a very bad corkscrew...wobble....
Does that bother you at all or are you just concerned with her weight. She looks good to me.
But oh boy that corkscrew scares me. Im not sure I would breed her either.
As long as she can eat well though and there is no way it is IBD, then she should flourish.

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It bugs me sometimes, but really only when he sticks his head underwater or something. I love my snake, and spiders are beautiful. Despite my constant paranoia of his weight and being a bit of a picky eater, he's pretty healthy. I was just concerned about him never really fattening up the way most balls do on a diet like his, and because of his parasite scare when he was younger, it's always been in the back of my mind. He's grown length-wise, but I guess width must take a bit more time.

Thanks everyone! I'll try not to worry about it his weight too much anymore. Makes me feel much better when people who have worked with them longer than I have say his weight looks alright. I'm going to leave him in QT till he eats for me once more, and then I'll move him back into his regular home and cover the outside of it and not touch him for a week or so to calm the wobble down..

Malcolm, I'll order a new crock tomorrow, or possibly a ceramic, thanks for the advice. :)

Over paranoid snake mom makes a mess out of things.

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Originally Posted by MissLeMew

It bugs me sometimes, but really only when he sticks his head underwater or something. Despite my constant paranoia of his weight and being a bit of a picky eater, he's pretty healthy. I was just concerned about him never really fattening up the way most balls do on a diet like his, and because of his parasite scare when he was younger, it's always been in the back of my mind. He's grown length-wise, but I guess width must take a bit more time.

Thanks everyone! I'll try not to worry about it his weight too much anymore. Makes me feel much better when people who have worked with them longer than I have say his weight looks alright. I'm going to leave him in QT till he eats for me once more, and then I'll move him back into his regular home and cover the outside of it and not touch him for a week or so to calm the wobble down..

Malcolm, I'll order a new crock tomorrow, or possibly a ceramic, thanks for the advice. :)

Over paranoid snake mom makes a mess out of things.

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YVW Check wal marts dish section they have some smaller white crock style bowls for a couple of bucks

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

Check wal marts dish section they have some smaller white crock style bowls for a couple of bucks

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Ah, will do

dont worry... all spiders (some more severe than others even some spider combos)
have degrees of wobble.

im sorry but IMO yours is in the more severe sides of the wobble.


but very pretty. if that makes you feel better.

im sorry.

i have a female bumble bee im hoping doesnt develope a wobble ,

well a noticable one. she's still young and they usually get more obvoius with age.
that would be why you havnt noticed it till now.

Wait wait one second folks why does IBD have to be blamed and fingers pointed at boas right away? It's not a boa specific thing?
Yes it is more aggressive with BPs but they still can live for quite a while like boas before ever even showing symptoms.

Hi,

Not really from all I have read. It seems to kill BP's in 3-4 weeks.

The reasons people point to boas is simply that they can have it without showing symptoms for a long time and are quite a common pet in reptile collections.

To the OP.

I don't think it's IBD either - just the spider wobble.

You keep mentioning his weight but you didn't actually tell us any figures on weight gain or weight loss?

To me the snake looks fine body condition wise but weight would be a better way to judge progress I think.

And I wouldn't worry about skipping a few meals - no matter the paintjob it is still a BP. :D


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Not really from all I have read. It seems to kill BP's in 3-4 weeks.

The reasons people point to boas is simply that they can have it without showing symptoms for a long time and are quite a common pet in reptile collections.

To the OP.

I don't think it's IBD either - just the spider wobble.

You keep mentioning his weight but you didn't actually tell us any figures on weight gain or weight loss?

To me the snake looks fine body condition wise but weight would be a better way to judge progress I think.

And I wouldn't worry about skipping a few meals - no matter the paintjob it is still a BP. :D


dr del

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Last I weighed him ( about 3 weeks ago) he was 575g, he never really lost weight, just never gained weight as quickly as any of my other bps. I have another bp that's 3 months younger than he is that was 732g the last I weighed him (also about 3 weeks ago, though he was a big boy to begin with.. I weigh monthly).

And thank you for the reassurance - when people jump to IBD it makes my heart palpitate even though I know that's not what it is :)

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Originally Posted by MissLeMew

Last I weighed him ( about 3 weeks ago) he was 575g, he never really lost weight, just never gained weight as quickly as any of my other bps. I have another bp that's 3 months younger than he is that was 732g the last I weighed him (also about 3 weeks ago, though he was a big boy to begin with.. I weigh monthly).

And thank you for the reassurance - when people jump to IBD it makes my heart palpitate even though I know that's not what it is :)

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675*** sorry, late night last night :oops:

Weights vary even with bps the same age. Even one's fed the same. So its completely okay for one to be a couple hundred grams off from the other that's the same age. It doesn't mean they are underweight at all.