Thin/Weak Corn Snake

I work at Petsmart and every now and then we get a little corn snake baby that won't eat. This time it is a little snow corn. He arrived on 8/6 and has never had a meal. He is getting thinner everyday and finally he was taken to the vet last week. I had told my manager that the snake needed to be force fed or tube-fed. The only thing the vet did was prescribe metronidazole and instructed us to give the snake .1ml of it every day. They also told us to feed smaller sized pinkies. Our pinkies for store use come in bags of 50 and most of the pinkies are a few days old so are not all that tiny. I did find one pinkie out of the whole bag that was small enough but even after putting the pinkie in to the snake's throat, he would not swallow it down.

So on Saturday I took a pinkie and cut it up into a paste, mixed it with a little water and with a little work I was able to syringe feed the little corn .1ml of the pinkie "soup". I'm not sure how fast he would have digested this (since it was a paste) but on Sunday evening I did find a small amount of poop (two dots worth) and some urates in the corner of his enclosure. (He's on paper towels so we can keep track) On Sunday I repeated the process and was able to get him to eat .15ml of pinkie "soup". I weighed him after his meal and he is 5g. How often should I feed him his soup?

We already lost one corn snake to this kind of thing (starved to death) and I'm tired of my co-workers and management not stepping up and getting the animals what they need so I'm kind of taking things into my own hands here. Any advice on helping this little snake survive and grow would be great. I'd hate to see him follow the same path as the other one who died. My pet care manager will not allow me to bring in tube feeding supplies as the force feeding and tube feeding should only be done by veterinarian (well the vets are stupid) but if I'm using what we have on hand I don't think its against the rules. The syringe goes back into his throat a bit, so I'm not getting any in his windpipe.

You can try giving him pinky heads if he's too small for regular pinkies.

We also tried pinky heads twice. How often should I feed him the pinky soup? I go into work later today and tomorrow then I'm off for a week. Should I try feeding him the soup either today or tomorrow? No one else that works there will syringe feed him.

If you werent so far away I would drive down there and get the poor guy just to help out :( I am up in MD though. My corn was very little when I got him and ended up doing the pinky head thing every other day for a few weeks until he was able to take a whole one then backed it off to a once a week feeding. He didnt always take it but just stuck with it and he pulled through and is now a beautiful 4 ft snow corn :)

Good for you for helping the little one out. I would recommend trying to feed the 'soup' every 4 days or so. Others may say more or less, but just my opinion.

Good luck to you

When I got to work yesterday there was more urate and poop on his paper towel. I fed him another .15ml of the "soup". He is more active than he was a few days ago. I guess its from the addition of calories. So in the past 3 days he's eaten 0.4ml of pinkie soup. I'm going to check on him again today. I won't feed him any soup today since he's already had too much stress the past 3 days. I want to give him a break. I showed my pet care manager how I was feeding him and pre-made a few mls of the soup for him to feed to the snake while I'm gone for the week. I believe he plans on feeding him every 2-3days while I'm gone.

I was thinking of keeping the snake on this soup diet until he begins to gain some weight. Perhaps when he hits 6 or 7g I might try giving him a pinky head.

Sounds about right. Kathy Love tube feeds ground up ferret food mixed with water to make "soup". Every 4-6 days IIRC. Good luck getting this little guy going! Once he gets to 4-5 gms I agree with pink heads.

I have not weighed him recently but he has been getting soup every few days. He's pooping and passing urates so we are hoping he will start gaining some weight soon. The last part of his body is not as wrinkly as it was in the beginning so I'm hoping that is because he is growing. He's eaten the equivalent of one pinky so far so he's had one complete meal over the course of 2 weeks.

Checked on the tiny corn tonight. The baby weighs 4g now. He's pooping and passing urates about 2 days after each feeding. I'm chopping the pink into a paste and diluting it with water aso I can use it with a small syringe. I've gotten him up to eating. 5ml of the puree. It's not diluted a lot. Only a little. Should I try feeding him more?

That is supposed to be 0.5ml not 5.

Today I took a pinkie head cut it in two length wise and assist fed him the two pieces. Once he had one piece down I gave him the other. It makes a bulge in his belly but not too much of one. Figured I might do this every 2-3 days.

Not much help, just wanted to say nice job for helping out!!! You should just buy the little guy:)

Good job again!!!

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Unfortunately my store sells him for about $60. I don't have that kind of money or I would. I just hope I can eventually get him eating on his own.

You are for sure the bestest thing that will ever happen to that little one, kudos to you for working with that little baby...good luck

Hooray! He ate real food! You are doing great with him. Would you bring him home if you could afford him? If the answer is yes, and you could manage to pay for his pinks & such, PM me. Serious offer.

Not sure if anyone is really following this or not but I will continue to update this thread just in case.

Now, the little corn had gotten down to weighing 4g empty. I have stopped the pureed syringe feedings and now cut up pinky heads to feed to him. Since his weigh in at 4g, he has consumed two pinkie heads (that I had to cut into pieces first). When I went in to check on him last night, I found a nice big (well its big for him anyway) pile of poop and he weighed 5g empty! I am so happy! I fed him the equivalent of half a pinkie last night and he got the pieces down just fine. Now to wait for his next poop! Hopefully, if I can get him up to 10g or so I can force feed a whole pinkie.

But I can tell you. I've never been so happy to see that little pile o' poop. :cool:

The Evidence!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...Snake/poop.jpg

Very awesome man, good on you. So nice to hear a good story like this. Well the ending of it :)

I have a few buddies that breed corns and have no time for. Non feeders so i take ecery non feeder and get them to eat here's what i do


Feed then in a small deli cup w a lid o they can't ignore the pinkie if that doesn't work slit the pinkie down the sides and on the head an if that's still not working i have a GREEN ANOLE in the freezer that ha its stomach split i thaw it out a little bit and smear the lizard guts and blood on the pinkie. ONLY AFTER I USE ALL THESE DO I TUBE FEED

He did just fine with his tube feeding. He is no longer being tube fed, but he is being force fed pieces of pinkie mouse. We tried leaving him in a deli cup in the dark with a f/t pinkie. We tried braining the pinkie, cutting open the sides, etc. Thanks for the advice though.

All I care about now is that he is gaining weight. 1g may not be a lot, but it is 1g in the right direction!

Yes that is good congratulations good to see someone at a pet store is actually caring for the reptiles

If you don't want to deal with coating the the pinky in blood and guts, i heard a little bit of tuna juice works wonders.

When they are this small and weak, a 1 gm gain is good! You are doing great with this little guy and I suspect he is going to make it with all your help! Keep the updates coming, OK?

1 gram is a 25% weight gain! That's awesome man!

Well he has half a pinkie in his belly right now, so as soon as he poops again, I'm going to feed him another half a pinkie. I'll continue this until I can get some more weight on him. I'll update as he progresses. I might include a picture or two to show you just how tiny he is.

try feeding him tails if you cant feed him a whole pink.....cut the tail off a rat pup....just cut up at the point where the thickness of the tail is a good size for him....you can feed him a rat pup tail every two days.....just thought that might be eaiser for you then chopping up a pink....thats what i feed my non feeders...i just push the tail to the back of the mouth and they start swollowing it all on their own....just dont cut the tail too long or the little thing might not eat it fast enough

Figured I'd give you guys a small update. The little guy now weighs 6g empty. (he had the smallest bit of poop in him, so I don't think it counts. It was like two grains of rice in size) He ate 1/2 a pinkie today. He's looking more lively every time I go in to see him. His head is up and alert. He actually gave me a small S pose today. I attempted offering him a pinkie head to strike at, but it was a no-go.

I'll keep you updated on his progress. I'll try and get a picture tomorrow morning. I think his original weight when he came in was about 6 or 7g, so he's back to where he started, I suppose. Now to get him to gain even more. Usually, how many grams in weight gain does it take a hatchling to start shedding (other than the first shed out of the egg)? I'm just wondering around about when I can expect him to shed. Two more grams to go and he'll have doubled his weight.

Way to go on taking this guy! The store should really give him to you for free for all the help you gave it. It probably would have died without you anyway. You should snap a pic of the lil guy for us to see!

Has he shed yet?

Not yet. I didn't get a chance to check on him today, but I'm going to be feeding him tomorrow night.

Here he is on the scale. All 6g of him.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...120_121447.jpg

And in my hand. And I have pretty small hands.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...120_121503.jpg

Ignore the dirty work cart. I hadn't cleaned it yet. :P

He shed! When I went in last night to check on him, he had shed the first half of his body. I put him in a deli cup with some warm water and let him soak for a few minutes. Then I helped the rest of the shed come off. I fed him as well. I won't be updating this as often as I have been because while I get really excited about it, I'm sure all of you don't care every time he poops or eats. I'll update with any significant weight gain or his next shed.

This is such awesome news! It's great that this snake has shed and is continuing to poop! Please keep us updated on the progress!

Just a little update since I haven't updated in a while. He is still at 6g but I haven't been able to feed him much more than 1x per week. Now that things have calmed down at work a little, I'm bumping up his feeding to 2x per week. He is so feisty now! You put your hand in his tank and he immediately forms the S and tries to strike you repeatedly. He thinks he's a little rattlesnake. It is so adorable and great to see! Since our pinkie mice are still to large for him (they are easily 2-3x as thick as he is at his widest), he's eating pieces.

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I hope he eventually eats on his own. One of my friends from another store said their store had to put down a python because it had water on the lungs? Not sure what that is, but this python had been with them for a loooong time and had feeding issues. It never ate on its own.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I hope he eventually eats on his own. One of my friends from another store said their store had to put down a python because it had water on the lungs? Not sure what that is, but this python had been with them for a loooong time and had feeding issues. It never ate on its own.

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Maybe "water on the lungs" is slang for an RI?

Instead of making new threads whenever I update about this little guy, I will be posting updates here.

On Saturday, January 1st, I found a small enough pinkie mouse (frozen/thawed) and was able to force feed him the entire thing (without having to chop it into bits) I did offer it to him first to see if he'd take it on his own, but he refused. I force fed it to him and he was able to swallow it down just fine. Again on Wednesday (today), I offered him another pinkie mouse since he had pooped and he refused. I force fed it to him and he got it down. I weighed him after his poop but before he was fed for the 2nd time and he weighed 7g.

He is almost 2x the size he was at his weakest/smallest!!!! With the pinkie in his belly, he was 9g. I am very confidant this little guy will see adulthood, but I'm worried about all the force feeding I'm having to do. I know it must be stressful on such a small snake. He is at least 5 months old now and only weighs 7g. I'm going to keep offering pinkies before resorting to force feeding, but he has absolutely no interest in them. (And yes, I do heat them up. Not too hot, but warm to the touch)

So I guess a question I have for some of the more experienced keepers/breeders is....will force feeding like this cause any damage or have any long term affects on his health? I mean, he's doing great! He's much more alert, he's not skinny anymore, and he's feisty! (He tries to bite everyone) I'm just worried this will harm him or cause issues down the road. I read somewhere (its been too long to remember where) that snakes that are force fed for long durations while young have shortened life spans. Is this true?

I'm not sure about extended harm. I personally don't force feed snakes, I will assist feed them, but if they won't take it on their own, then so be it.

I'm surprised that its not taking food on its own by this point though.

He will not touch it, will not eat it. If I attempt to assist feed, he just forces it back out. Because of company policies, there is little I can do to make him more comfortable. Currently he lives in a critter keeper (I think its the medium or large size) with a single hide (we don't have smaller hides so we can only fit one) and a water dish. He has an UTH and the room stays around 70-73. It is quiet most of the day. The only time someone goes into the room is in the morning to give medicine to other animals, feed, and change bedding when needed. Also in the evenings for medications.

That is to give you an idea of his living situation right now and perhaps he's just not secure enough. I have considered purchasing him and bringing him home to work with him, but I do not have the space for him currently.

I don't like to force feed snakes either but when he got down to 4g, I had to do something. And he still refuses to eat, so I don't want him to starve. At about 5 months old, he should be waaaay bigger than he is, and while he could probably go a few weeks without eating, I don't want him to get that small again. I'm thinking maybe once he's put on some size, he might feel more confidant about eating and might start taking pinks on his own.

I don't know about any long term damages.

As for the feeding, I'd be offering live pinks. Maybe it would ignite a better feeding response.

I work at a Petsmart. Feeding live is strictly against their policy. They do not advocate for feeding live. (I actually had a lengthy debate with a girl who no longer works there over feeding in the cage vs feeding outside the cage and whether or not this causes aggression, and also debated live vs frozen/thawed)

I would sneak in a live pinkie but I do not wish to lose my job, so I have to follow the rules. If I had my way though, he would have been on live to start with.

Is there a way you could scent the pinkie with a green anole lizard? I "think" I heard somewhere corns would sometimes take those scented pinks.

I wouldn't take that information at face value because I'm not 100% sure where I heard it, or what was taking the green anole scented pinks... Do some poking around to see if you can confirm it, or if someone else on here wants to add something or correct me.

I could definitely use a green anole for scenting if this is something that might work (we carry green anoles in the store). Next time he's due to eat, I'll give it a try and see.

Alright, keep us posted! :cool:

At this point, you're doing all you can. If they won't let you feed it live, its possible it will never eat on its own if its going to be a live feeder. IMO the onus is on them to care for it. If they're not willing to, then its there loss.

At this point, I think it would be highly irresponsible for them to even sell the snake. They should just give it to you. If it isn't feeding f/t on its own by now, it might never, or at least without going through live.

You need to talk to your manager or whoever is in charge about this. Are they going to just force feed it forever? How do they expect to sell a snake that can only be force fed? Let alone selling such a sickly snake.

Call me cruel, but some just aren't meant to make it. At some point, that is something you're going to have to weigh IMO.

Success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been offering the pinkies to him both by tong and by leaving him in a cup with it. For the past two feedings, he's refused and so I force-fed him.

But today! Today he ate on his own. I left him in the cup with the frozen/thawed pinkie and 30 minutes later I checked on him. There was no pinkie, he had a fat belly, and was looking mighty pleased with himself. :D I have to say, I am sooooo happy for this little guy. To go from weighing only 4g and wasting away to now 7g empty and having eaten on his own! I'm so proud of him! :banana::banana::banana:

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But today! Today he ate on his own. I left him in the cup with the frozen/thawed pinkie and 30 minutes later I checked on him. There was no pinkie, he had a fat belly, and was looking mighty pleased with himself. :D I have to say, I am sooooo happy for this little guy. To go from weighing only 4g and wasting away to now 7g empty and having eaten on his own! I'm so proud of him! :banana::banana::banana:

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Awesome! That's great....hopefully it will continue. Was that with the scented anole pink?

Awesome! Lets hope he'll continue to feed for you and really start to pick up!

I weighed him empty yesterday and he was 8g! Double his lowest weight! He ate another pinkie today. I'm going to make sure he eats a few more meals before he goes back out on the floor and I will definitely let customers know about his feeding history. I'm just so happy for this little guy! He makes my job worth it! Its things like this that make me glad I got this job.

Congrats on a job well done.

thats really good i think you should keep him

Awwww, I just saw this for the first time and read the whole thing through. What a great job you did!! Most people would have totally given up on this lil dude and he wouldn't have had a chance. I hope whoever buys him takes really good care of him since he seems to be finicky at times with his eating. Hopefully since he's gotten bigger, he will keep taking food. I really wish you could take him home.. I bet you're crazy attached to him. Be proud for helping him out instead of letting him waste away. Could we get another picture of the lil guy?

This was such a heart-warming thread! If you aren't already, make sure you are making slices in the whole pinks before you feed them. Makes it easier to digest and absorb more nutrients. ;)