Are These Pied Markers...Yes or No?

I was just looking over the "Normal" Female that I got my from my brother today...and I saw something interesting. When we purchased her, we were told she was Het Pied from Het X Homo pairing...but we didn't mess with it too much because it was just a "first snake" for my brother...but after looking at her I saw some markers (possibly) that makes me think she is Het...any thoughts?

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker3.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker2.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker1.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker4.jpg

These are all pictures of the same spot...just from different angles...the white comes up into the flame really high, and the flame itself almost reaches the middle of her back...thoughts?

Thanks,
B&B

My normal has a couple of those along her sides as well, but I'm pretty sure it's normal? If not someone chip in and tell me I have a het pied too! :P

Beautiful ball :D

You CAN NOT tell a het pied or anything else by a visual marker.

Yes, some hets do have markers, more do not. A lot of just plain normals have the same markers, so there is no way to tell by a marker if you have a het anything. Buy from a trustworthy breeder, or take a wild guess and try to prove it out.

Now, if the person you bought it from is 1000% reliable and can guarantee that one parent was a visual pied, then yes that baby would be a het. However, not every breeder is trustworthy so you have to take that into consideration.

Gale

That's not really a known marking for a Het Pied, they tend to be Tracks on the bottom of the snake along the belly. Most of the time they run along the bottom half of the snake. For instance my male has perfect tracks along his belly, but my female does not. If you know the parents, then you DO have a 100% Het Piebald, which a female is always nice to have!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bass&Balls

I was just looking over the "Normal" Female that I got my from my brother today...and I saw something interesting. When we purchased her, we were told she was Het Pied from Het X Homo pairing...but we didn't mess with it too much because it was just a "first snake" for my brother...but after looking at her I saw some markers (possibly) that makes me think she is Het...any thoughts?

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker3.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker2.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker1.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker4.jpg

These are all pictures of the same spot...just from different angles...the white comes up into the flame really high, and the flame itself almost reaches the middle of her back...thoughts?

Thanks,
B&B

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Did you pay het pied price? Did you get genetic paperwork with it? If not then more then likely its a normal with a white spot.

What do the "tracks" look like?

wouldnt this be considered a ringer?

that's what i was thinking court :confused:

No that's not really a ringer, ringers are very close to the Vent and are orange in appearance. Here are some pictures of both tracks and ringers.

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gra...ringer_off.jpg

Here's a thread on BP.NET about markings, this is a perfect example of tracks in post #29

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post1239292

Edit: Actually just noticed that in the picture of the males pied tracks, you can see he has a great looking ringer near his vent/tail.

Ill have to check out her belly a little closer here in a minute and maybe post some pics...

Here is a nice link to NWE, showing photos of the black "tracks" that are associated with "het pieds"

http://www.nextworldexotics.com/hghpm.htm

As someone else mentioned already though... a het, is only as good as the seller you buy it from.. Paperwork means absolutely nothing.. I can make you paperwork for a het pastel and sell a normal with it.. etc. etc..

I have normals with these "het pied" markers.. and I have seen 100% het pieds with no "markers"..

What you showed in the pics are not pied markers (which I am still on the fence about their predictive value).

However, if your snake is from a visual pied x het pied pairing, it is for sure a het pied as well.

u cant tell on markers if something is het or not. some het pieds have markers, while others dont. but the markers that i know look different than urs.

BUT if it really comes from a het pied x pied breeding the snake is 100% het pied (not 66% or so).

so if u trust the breeder u should have a het pied there.

no matter if he has markers or not.

No one could say by the pictures you posted. You need belly pictures of the last 1/3rd of the body. Many het pieds have the marker and many don't. Some normals even have the het pied marker, so it's never a good way to judge a snake by. You need to buy from a reputable breeder with paperwork to prove their genetics.

With that said, all three of my het pieds have the marker, but I also bought from a reputable breeder and saw both parents myself.

Here are some belly shots of the last 1/3 of her body...just cause...

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker5.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker6.jpg

Like I said, we just bought her as a normal...and I got her from my brother cause he is real busy with class and everything...really have no interest in the Pied gene except that I saw that little mark where the white came up pretty high into the flame and sparked some thinking ;)

Thanks again guys :)

With all this said, I have never seen a normal with "het pied markers". I'm not saying all hets have belly striping, but it's NOT JUST THE STRIPING. :) As many have mentioned, certain lines of het pieds carry the markers and others don't. It's not as important in today's market as it was say, 5-10 years ago when more possible hets were being sold....and for high prices. The line I have been breeding for the last several years has solid classic markers. Belly stripes and yellow smudging on 100% of my hets and the appropriate percentages of possible hets. There is a reason Pete Kahl held back a large number of possible hets back when he started breeding pieds. He was, and still is the largest producer of pieds in the industry.

That looks like a het. pied marker (by the tail the black side stripes) But those markers will not always say it really is a het. pied.
Also there are 100% het. pieds with no markers.....

Normals do sometimes have very thick heavy pied markers. I have one right now that I am sure is not het for anything because I produced it. The only way you can somewhat rely on the railroad tracks is if you are sure of the parents genes. Any morph can have an orange and white ringer. Some are more prone to it but it doesn't mean they are het pied. I have a cinnamon and a yellow belly and a fire all with partial ringers. Not het for anything.

The small white spot you showed is common on normals and some other morphs as well.

And what do u said about this male i got 2 years ago?
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...0-Jun-09-1.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...0-Jun-09-2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bass&Balls

Here are some belly shots of the last 1/3 of her body...just cause...

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker5.jpg

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...iedMarker6.jpg

Like I said, we just bought her as a normal...and I got her from my brother cause he is real busy with class and everything...really have no interest in the Pied gene except that I saw that little mark where the white came up pretty high into the flame and sparked some thinking ;)

Thanks again guys :)

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As stated previously, "markers" are not reliable. I have a few that have the tracks, but are not het anything. I have also heard that the tracks along the belly, will be more squared off, and the belly will be very clean. I see a few spots on the belly here.
I would have to go with normal, with a nice flame. :gj:

Ok look at these... This is a 100% het pied with markers & a ringer.
http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6898d77-c484-90ec.jpg

This is a 100% het pied with weak markers..
http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6898d77-c4bc-9834.jpg

And this is NOT het for anything but it has the same markers..
http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6898d77-c50c-e9a5.jpg

Some people have said in the past that the thicker they are and if they curve into the vent area that they are more likely to be het but this is simply not true.

Then there is the OPs question about the spot. Look at this pic. That white spot outlined in orange in not a ringer or a het marker. It's a very common pattern spot that many normals and morphs alike can have.

http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6898d77-c668-16d3.jpg

So once again, if the snake was sold to you or the person you got it from as a 100% het then it is het. Otherwise it is not unless it happens to be a wild caught or captive hatched African ball. In that case some people may want to breed it to a pied to see if it's het but a white spot is never a marker. Only RR tracks and ringers but only if the snake is already known to be het. Otherwise it is simply a pattern.