Breeding Etiquitte...

I asked a similar question before, but I have a more current one. If I were to breed my male with someones female (both snakes are of equal value) and when the female lays and I go pick up the eggs and incubate them and care for the babies, how do we split the clutch up? If there is a special oddball snake, who gets it? I know with my normal female and my friends pastel male and me doing all the work, he gets pick of the litter and we split the clutch 50/50, but what do you do in this situation?
Equal value of snakes
Im housing/feeding while breeding
Im incubating the eggs
Im caring the the babies once they hatch and are ready to go home.

Me personally, just to save bickering, would let him choose his eggs when their laid. Mark 'em, incubate them the same, and when the time comes let him come watch his eggs hatch and it's all luck of the draw.

I just watched Secretariat (movie) last night. I like the way they arranged the offspring distribution... By coin toss!

In your case, it is about 50/50 because the other party is caring for your male and his female throughout the breeding cycle as well as the ovulation period. The female snake caries the health risk as well.

You care for the eggs and the hatchlings pretty much makes it even-steven. So, the offspring is a coin toss in my opinion. Whoever wins the coin toss gets first pick on the first snake, then the other party picks his first snake, then y'all take turns until all the snakes are distributed. If there is an odd number of snakes, the loser of the toss gets the last odd snake.

You sign paperwork on this agreement with a 3rd party witness who will do the toss.

But, that's just my own imagination working after watching the movie. :D

No I'm housing and feeding and breeding and incubating and eveything. But it's their female. All they do is let me know when the eggs are laid. Just clarifying :)

Why wouldn't the female stay with you until she lays her eggs? She's going to need to go into quarantine at your house before you breed anyway.

As for the split.... 50/50. You're not getting eggs without that female.

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Originally Posted by Courtney281

No I'm housing and feeding and breeding and incubating and eveything. But it's their female. All they do is let me know when the eggs are laid. Just clarifying :)

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Sent from my HTC Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.

Why move the female twice? Every time you move her is going to cause stress and increase the odds that she won't go at all. Its much easier to send the male to the female, imho.

But if you must move her once, why move her after breeding just so she can lay? Why not just leave her with you until she has laid?

As far as splitting stuff up, you need to account for every possible scenario and lay it out ahead of time. You need to negotiate any variance in an even split to account for time and effort you've committed to it. But if someone else is providing the female....an even split is probably about the best you should hope for.

Plan it all out, get it in writing, keep communication lines open, and hope that it all pans out.

Split the eggs 50/50 and I also agree with marking the eggs when they're laid. That seems the fairest way to go.. What you get is what you get. Just my opinion. Good luck!

The most important thing is to come up with a method that is agreeable to both parties and put it in writing before the pairings. That will eliminate any misunderstandings and hurt feelings. If you think there is going to be the possibility of an interesting morph produced, you need to address that in your written agreement.

Having a written agreement clears the air and sets the proper expectations. The agreement can be a simple handwritten document that both agree to. Make sure each of you have a copy.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Sarin

Split the eggs 50/50 and I also agree with marking the eggs when they're laid. That seems the fairest way to go.. What you get is what you get. Just my opinion. Good luck!

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I think this is a bad idea. What happens if they do a pastel x spider and get 8 eggs. Lets say its a perfect clutch and there are 2 bees, 2 spiders, 2 pastels, and 2 normals. But lets also say that one party picked eggs that contained both bees and a spider and a pastel. The other person is left with a spider, pastel, and two normals.

Do you hardly think that is fair? I sure don't. Ideally it would be split 50/50.

But then what if the same clutch only gave 1 bee and 7 normals, then what?

The only way I'd ever do a bp breeding loan (or any breeding loan) is to do a homozygous/super cross so that the F1 were all the same thing. Doing co-dom crosses is rolling the dice, and its possible on person involved will get screwed. Stick with homozygous/super crosses so that you know exactly what will pop out and no one gets upset. Then work out the fine details.

thanks everyone for your input. I can see both side of the coin here on marking eggs to not marking eggs. Just to clear things up a little we are breeding my male possible het for albino with her female possible het for albino. We are doubtful that they will prove out, but just in case they do and we get an albino, I kinda wanted to know where to go with this. We are good friends and I really don't want to do anything that will jeopardize that. If all else fails, I'll just swallow my pride and let her take the only albino if we do end up getting one. She says she only wants "pick of the litter" anyway. She doesnt even want to split the clutch 50/50.

Thanks again though, all the feedback really helped

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Originally Posted by Courtney281

thanks everyone for your input. I can see both side of the coin here on marking eggs to not marking eggs. Just to clear things up a little we are breeding my male possible het for albino with her female possible het for albino. We are doubtful that they will prove out, but just in case they do and we get an albino, I kinda wanted to know where to go with this. We are good friends and I really don't want to do anything that will jeopardize that. If all else fails, I'll just swallow my pride and let her take the only albino if we do end up getting one. She says she only wants "pick of the litter" anyway. She doesnt even want to split the clutch 50/50.

Thanks again though, all the feedback really helped

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In that case if the snakes prove out to be hets then they have the most expensive snake so they should get first pick.

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Originally Posted by chago11

In that case if the snakes prove out to be hets then they have the most expensive snake so they should get first pick.

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I don't like that idea lol

Let me just state this - breeding loans should not be entered into lightly. Every little bit needs to be spelled out - including replacement value of her snake, if it were to die in your care and how long you have to pay that to her.

Breeder loans CAN work, but I've seen a lot of friendships ruined over breeder loans and mis-understandings.

With the price of albino's these days - it probably would be simpler for both of you to save your money to buy your own albino's.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Let me just state this - breeding loans should not be entered into lightly. Every little bit needs to be spelled out - including replacement value of her snake, if it were to die in your care and how long you have to pay that to her.

Breeder loans CAN work, but I've seen a lot of friendships ruined over breeder loans and mis-understandings.

With the price of albino's these days - it probably would be simpler for both of you to save your money to buy your own albino's.

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After all the talking gone on here, I have a feeling Im going to hand her snake back over to her tonight. Just to save everyone the trouble of there being any sort of problem.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Let me just state this - breeding loans should not be entered into lightly. Every little bit needs to be spelled out - including replacement value of her snake, if it were to die in your care and how long you have to pay that to her.

Breeder loans CAN work, but I've seen a lot of friendships ruined over breeder loans and mis-understandings.

With the price of albino's these days - it probably would be simpler for both of you to save your money to buy your own albino's.

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Robin's post is spot on - I agree. You have to have everything spilled out clearly. You must also only choose people you trust 110%.

But I will say that if done correctly they can be a good thing. For the past two years I've done a breeding loan, and am doing one this year as well. So far they've all worked out perfectly and I've managed to jump start some projects by a few years.

But again, you can't be too cautious when dealing with this. But I also agree with her in your case, I would probably just save up. I bet you could get an albino at a show for less than $400, probably even cheaper with the way prices are.

Well we sat and talked it out and Im really only interested in one snake as I really don't want any more normals and Im hoping to have enough of my very own babies to sell that the less I have to try and sell, the better. So we agreed that she will stay here till she lays her eggs, I will incubate and take care of the babies till they are eating on their own, then I get first pick and she can have the rest to do with as she pleases. I bet she'll keep em all hahaha Thanks again everyone for your help. It really gave me a good place to start our conversation and work things out. I'll let you know how it goes, Im sure :)

Make sure that you two write up a contract - it's even MORE important when it's a loan between friends - everything is clearly laid out.

I would do a coin flip for the first pick and then you guys just alternate picks from there. It's simple and no one can feel like they were ripped off. Maybe if there is an odd number of eggs you could let whoever picked second get the last two snakes just so the person with the first pick does not get the best snake and an extra snake.

Make it simple. You have a male she has a female. If you end up with an albino sex it. It goes to the person with the opposite sex het. You would get a female albino and your friend would get a male albino.

Well it really depends on your relationship with the person , how much you trust them ect. I am not sure I am a huge fan of verbal agreements so in writing may be a good idea. I think the most important thing is to talk it out and make sure you each feel like your going to get a fair deal. Then pray for good odds and equal numbers.

She came over and picked up her snake, THANK GOD! I was starting to feel like this was going to be a HUGE hassel that wasnt going to be worth it. She didn't want to leave her snake her for that long because "My other snake misses her and is freaking out! I know he is stressed out without her because he doesn't even want us HOLDING him now that she is gone." So whatever, Im glad its gone and we're done with that. I still appreciate everyones 2 cents though :)