Is she big enough?

Yep, I knew it: it's October, and my 2007 mice-only female is only now creeping up 1300 gram. Will she be big enough at that size, or should I wait?

I would wait. I personally don't like to breed until the female is at least 1600-1800g. just my opinion:)

I'm breeding an 07 that's around 1350 grams. She's been locking like crazy with on of my mojaves. The way I see it...she'll either give me a good clutch or she won't. If they ran into a male in the wild...what would they do? If a snake is old enough/mature enough, they will breed.

Edit: Roughly how long is she? Lenght to weight ratio is more important than weight itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by demjor19

Edit: Roughly how long is she? Lenght to weight ratio is more important than weight itself.

---

42 or 43 inches, looks like. (HOLD STILL, STUPID SNAKE. ARGH!) :snake:

Weight isn't a big of a factor as you might think..age, weight, build, fat stores, over all health of the animal.. while most people look at 1300 grams as breed-able and 2007 is well with in that range. There are a few factors that go into this, is the animal a lean thin 1300 grams or is she a stocky 1300 grams. I bred a 1100 gram 2006 female just fine, small clutch but still..is the animal recovering or just recovered from an injury or illness? Is she eating good ect ect..

I have a real problem with the whole "If they run into a male in the wild" argument. What if I asked "Is it ok for me to feed a mouse my neighbor caught in a mouse trap to my snake?" The same argument could be used to justify saying "yeah sure, feed the mouse to your snake, after all, in the wild your snake would eat any mouse it found, not just the parasite free ones."

At the end of the day you have to make the call to breed or not to breed. I think weight is important but like Freakie_frog says, health, fat reserves, age are all important too. Relying on what would happen in nature is not always best. Nature can be a cruel, unforgiving witch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Weight isn't a big of a factor as you might think..age, weight, build, fat stores, over all health of the animal.. while most people look at 1300 grams as breed-able and 2007 is well with in that range. There are a few factors that go into this, is the animal a lean thin 1300 grams or is she a stocky 1300 grams. I bred a 1100 gram 2006 female just fine, small clutch but still..is the animal recovering or just recovered from an injury or illness? Is she eating good ect ect..

---

I absolutely agree with all of this. And from the snakes length that the OP gave...I would say she would be a little on the thin sde for me to breed her. For a snake in the 40+ inch range...I like to see them 2000+ grams.

To the OP...do you have pics of the snake?

She has the age and the weight is really close... Also she might feed more aggressively after you put a male with her a couple time and gain a little more weight.

BTW if she does start feeding like crazy it will be a good time to try to get her on rats...Also try a rat first if/after she lays eggs.

Seems like everyone has their own opinions but i was told it is very risky before 1500

I would breed her as long as she was in good health. She has the age for sure and the weight is fine to. It is a little light but as others said she will continue to feed through out the season. I would not stop feeding her, offer her food until she refuses on her own. That way she will continue to put on weight as she builds.

yes, she is big enough and old enough to breed. if you should or not is up to you. ill be breeding at least 4 girls in the same weight range. 2 have been in the same weight range for 2 years now with little change. they are just smaller females. the other 2 i need to further my project and i dont want to wait...lol. honesty is the best policy and their is no reason to sugar coat it.
i also know a few smaller breeders who have bred females in the 800 gram range. i have heard stories about bigger breeders using similar sized animals. look at the dreamsicle ....original breeding was a 7-800 gram female and a 350-400 gram male.
most breeders say they wouldnt do it but actually would, especially if it was integral to a project.
if its a normal to normal breeding i wouldnt do it. but if it was a killer bee to a humble be and both were het axanthic then yeah i wouldnt wait.
adam jeffery

You can always feed her a few more months and breed her in January or February...

Try her and if she goes, she goes!

The 2007 girl is healthy as a horse. Her only issues are occasional bad sheds--I bought her from a breeder in Florida a year ago, and she's never quite adapted to Arizona humidity. And of course she won't give a rat the time of day. But she chomps down the mice just fine, and her fecal smears are clean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Green

You can always feed her a few more months and breed her in January or February...

---

I'll certainly keep feeding her. And I won't introduce her to any males before November, more likely December.

(I also have a nice 2008 female sitting at 1380 grams. I'm pretty sure she'll hit 1500 grams by November, so she's first in line for breeding.)

:(
What about when your project becomes egg bound?

To the op, I'd go by your gut. If you think she is big enough and can make it, go ahead. If you think you'd rather wait another year and beef her up, go ahead :). You don't have to breed her, no pressure. If you do, keep us informed with lots of pics!

To the "wild" quote.

In the wild a snake will die. Ri, parasites, can't find food, mouth rot, scale rot, all point to death. In captivity our pets have a lot better chance at survival due to the fact we have vets and husbandry. You can hardly compare a captive snake to a wild one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adamjeffery

yes, she is big enough and old enough to breed. if you should or not is up to you. ill be breeding at least 4 girls in the same weight range. 2 have been in the same weight range for 2 years now with little change. they are just smaller females. the other 2 i need to further my project and i dont want to wait...lol. honesty is the best policy and their is no reason to sugar coat it.
i also know a few smaller breeders who have bred females in the 800 gram range. i have heard stories about bigger breeders using similar sized animals. look at the dreamsicle ....original breeding was a 7-800 gram female and a 350-400 gram male.
most breeders say they wouldnt do it but actually would, especially if it was integral to a project.
if its a normal to normal breeding i wouldnt do it. but if it was a killer bee to a humble be and both were het axanthic then yeah i wouldnt wait.
adam jeffery

---

By the time this snake starts being paired, building, ovy, she will be at least 1600g. This is the beginning of Oct. ya know, if he goes by the norm schedule & starts pairing in Nov. he'll have no worries....right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hughman 125

Seems like everyone has their own opinions but i was told it is very risky before 1500

---

The chance that a 1300-1400 gram girl gets egg bound is probably about the same chance as you getting hit by a bus on your way to work this morning...yes there is a chance, but to say it's very risky is going way overboard...jmho...

give me 5 no 3 known examples of a ball python getting egg bound....

it is VERY VERY rare for a ball to become egg bound. in the 10+ years ive been breeding snakes i have only heard of 3 balls being egg bound. i knw their are more but i hear of at least a dozen corns every year getting egg bound and at least half a dozen milks. kings i dont hear much on but balls i just never see it. its just not true. weight and age have alot to do with if you get eggs or not but egg bound has more to do with over all health of an animal. if its a lazy snake with no muscle tone that just got over being sick then yeah its likely to get eggs bound. but a 1300 gram snake that is perfectly healthy will have no problems passing its eggs.
adam jeffery

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremy78

:(
What about when your project becomes egg bound?

To the op, I'd go by your gut. If you think she is big enough and can make it, go ahead. If you think you'd rather wait another year and beef her up, go ahead :). You don't have to breed her, no pressure. If you do, keep us informed with lots of pics!

To the "wild" quote.

In the wild a snake will die. Ri, parasites, can't find food, mouth rot, scale rot, all point to death. In captivity our pets have a lot better chance at survival due to the fact we have vets and husbandry. You can hardly compare a captive snake to a wild one.

---

i vote breed because this girl is old enough but slim, and to say she shouldnt breed... thats like saying a under weight grown woman shouldn't have children.... just the way i feel about it :rofl:

I say let'r rip. once that snake copulates a few times i bet she starts eating more like a horse than a snake.

She actually looked way fatso when I originally posted this... since then she's gone up to 1300g and 46" (!), and now she seems more normally-proportioned.

It's interesting that people are worried about her not being fat enough--I'd guess that would help if she decides to fast during breeding? But I'm much happier with my 2008 pied in this respect--she's 48" and 1440 grams of SOLID MUSCLE. And I'd expect muscle tone to provide better insurance against egg-binding.

Anyway, here's the 2007 girl, busily not locking with my het male. (Also a 2007! But he's tiny--just 700 grams and change. Most of my 2009s have outgrown him.)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1g-0d-dBQWk/TO...0/IMG_3344.JPG

That was a couple weeks ago. The 2007 female went into a shed cycle shortly after; I paired them again this weekend, and they might have locked? Anyway the het male was putting more effort into it this last time.

Here's the 2007 female today with random kitchen objects for scale:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1g-0d-dBQWk/TO...0/IMG_3381.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1g-0d-dBQWk/TO...0/IMG_3382.JPG

Lois' nose says: Thanks for your awesomely helpful input, and have a terrific Thanksgiving.

It is very do-able. Waiting might gain you a larger clutch though.
I have a female at around 1100 grams and, it feels like she is developing follicles. She won't be bred this year but, barring any illness she will hopefully give me a nice clutch next year.

I think my very first BP was out of this pairing wasn't he?

I love it when the snakes get curious and nose up to you like in that last picture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DemmBalls

Edit: Roughly how long is she? Lenght to weight ratio is more important than weight itself.

---

I've never heard of the length to weight ratio, only weight or age.

Are there specific ratios you look for?