Can my snake eat mice?

Hi, my name is Mike and since yesterday i am a proud ball python owner. I met Mitch at a Petco and had to pick him up. The guy at the store said he is too small to feed mice. But a few people getting ready for a big reptile expo in Manchester said he should be good to go on eating mice. He is a baby, about a foot and a half long. He ate 2 frozen hoppers last night. I want to know if next Friday if he is searching for food, if i can feed him a mouse. By the way i know about the frozen/living food thing. I dont want this post to turn into a discussion on the pros and cons of both and the risk of feeding live. Here is a picture of Mitch, and the feeders.

Mitch: http://img808.imageshack.us/i/mitcho.jpg/

Snacks: http://img42.imageshack.us/i/foodql.jpg/

You need to eyeball it and try feeding a prey slightly small to equal your BP's girth size (widest part of your BP's body).

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You need to eyeball it and try feeding a prey slightly small to equal your BP's girth size (widest part of your BP's body).

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can i feed him things like a few large crickets until he is big enough?

Ball pythons don't eat bugs.

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

can i feed him things like a few large crickets until he is big enough?

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Where did you do your research before getting a BP? :confused:

Here is where you need to start ASAP http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?127203 and http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?126316 and http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?126316 and http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?74289 and http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?30763

As for food I am gonna repeat one more time, feed him a mouse the same size than it's girth (WIDEST part of your BP's body) and do so every 5 to 7 days.

The short answer to your question is yes he can eat adult mice. I have had hatchlings eat adult mice at their 3 meal. Do your research with the links Deb has listed check out a few care sheets. Don't get intimidated, luckily keeping ball pythons is super easy.

Good Luck and Congrats on your new addition!

Personally, I'd go for a weanling rat.


They will not eat insects. Mice and rats (preferable). I don't like feeding mice, simply because BPs imprint on a specific prey item and will refuse everything else. This can be a pain because once the snake gets big you will start having to feed multiple mice, instead of once properly sized rat. Some snakes are fine with eating multiples, some will regurgitate from the constricting of a second prey item or if they are easily frightened they will regurgitate from the shock of the second mouse being presented.

I just adopted a 7 week old BP today and he is a little smaller than Mitch, I believe. He has been eating fuzzies, live ones. I will be trying to get him to eat f/t, and I have been reading somewhere that letting them go a week without a meal before attempting to feed f/t from live is one method of trying to teach them to make the switch. I'm wondering if they are, like some animals, easier to "train" the younger they are.

Thanks guys. I didnt read anywhere that they eat insects. I heard that they have poor eyesight so i figured they would eat anything that moves, like a large cricket. But now i know, and friday when its feeding time i will feed him a live mouse.

Younger doesn't necessarily mean easier to switch. I've had many adults switch with no problems. To avoid the issue, my babies get rats from the first meal on.

Thanks, Sammy. I wasn't sure if that held true with snakes or not. That's why I post here, because everyone is so great at educating those of us new to the hobby! I will do my best to start him on f/t, and if it takes a couple weeks, I'm not going to complain. He's seven weeks old, and I guess the previous owner tried to get him on f/t but couldn't do it. I believe that using the information I've gathered from this forum, I have a good shot at it!

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

Thanks guys. I didnt read anywhere that they eat insects. I heard that they have poor eyesight so i figured they would eat anything that moves, like a large cricket. But now i know, and friday when its feeding time i will feed him a live mouse.

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Naw, it's really just a constrictor thing. You can't strangle a cricket, right? And they have the heat pits on their upper lip, which won't trigger on a cold insect. They instinctively want something warm-blooded. Hopping around and fuzzy are also bonuses.

He should be good to go for an adult mouse. Though sometimes they can get picky about only wanting smaller food--if that happens, you can usually find a "small" size in between hoppers and adults.

(Parenthetically, I did just read that smooth/rough grass snakes can be fed crickets. Whoa!)

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

I heard that they have poor eyesight so i figured they would eat anything that moves

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Actually they can see pretty good, about as well as a house cat.

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Originally Posted by Quacking-Terror

I just adopted a 7 week old BP today and he is a little smaller than Mitch, I believe. He has been eating fuzzies, live ones. I will be trying to get him to eat f/t, and I have been reading somewhere that letting them go a week without a meal before attempting to feed f/t from live is one method of trying to teach them to make the switch. I'm wondering if they are, like some animals, easier to "train" the younger they are.

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For the record, I really do find that they are much, much easier to switch to f/t as hatchlings. A two or three year old adult can take MONTHS, but babies rarely take more than two weeks of effort.

...I wouldn't starve them a week at that age, though. They SHOULD be naturally hungry as hatchlings, but in any case they don't have a lot of body fat yet to buffer starvation.

My usual method, when they won't just take the f/t outright, is to "lead" with a live mouse, and then offer the f/t as soon as they're done swallowing--they usually will look around for second mouse immediately after the first one, and I find they're typically not as picky once they've had their "appetizer". It also helps if you warm up the nose of the f/t mouse for 30-60 seconds under a heat lamp, or with a hair dryer.

Answering the question, can the snake eat an adult mouse, Yes it can. What i like doing is knowing how much the snake weighs and the weight of the mouse or rat. Not everyone is going to agree with me but I like to feed 15-20% of the snakes weight when i want them to bulk up. When my hatchlings were around 80g, they were being fed a mouse/rat that was 15-20g. Now there nearly 300g dining on 45-50g rats. My oldest male is 900g and eating 110-120g rats. There all growing extremely fast and there bodies are staying solid. If they start to get chunky then ill feed 10% of there weight and feed less often. Its been working for me and they all feed great everytime and growing very nice and solid.

Well it seems you've gotten all of your questions answered, but I feel the need to say this: NEVER buy an animal without doing your homework beforehand. You got lucky this time, since ball pythons are easy to care for, but what would you have done if they reached 20 ft and could only eat a specific diet?

I had a guy contact me the other day about feeding his new leopard gecko. He was insistent on feeding the poor thing one or two mealworms every day, even though I told him crickets had a much higher nutritional value and one or two was not NEARLY enough, because it was too much of a hassle to buy two dozen crickets every week. I told him he should have thought of that before he bought the leo. :/

Still, I'm very glad to see you're so willing to do it the right way, and I wish you nothing but the best with your new python. ^_^

first, read the care sheet on this site, then when you feed him, if the rodent is large enough for him, you will be able to tell that he ate. when he gets the rodent all the way down. you will notice a lump in his belly. if you don't see that, then the next time you feed him, up the size of the rodent.

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Originally Posted by Sammy412

Younger doesn't necessarily mean easier to switch. I've had many adults switch with no problems. To avoid the issue, my babies get rats from the first meal on.

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

Well it seems you've gotten all of your questions answered, but I feel the need to say this: NEVER buy an animal without doing your homework beforehand. You got lucky this time, since ball pythons are easy to care for, but what would you have done if they reached 20 ft and could only eat a specific diet?

I had a guy contact me the other day about feeding his new leopard gecko. He was insistent on feeding the poor thing one or two mealworms every day, even though I told him crickets had a much higher nutritional value and one or two was not NEARLY enough, because it was too much of a hassle to buy two dozen crickets every week. I told him he should have thought of that before he bought the leo. :/

Still, I'm very glad to see you're so willing to do it the right way, and I wish you nothing but the best with your new python. ^_^

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Why is everyone saying i got lucky from not doing research? I researched Ball Pythons. Ive read multiple care booklets, online guides, learned from word-of-mouth etc. Mitch isnt in a shoebox in my oven, I want him to live the 30+ years that ball pythons can live. I bough a snake starter kit (40 gallon tank, 1 day heat lamp, 1 night heat lamp, 1 water dish, 1 hide, misting spray, and reptile turf) I also got him a reptile heat pad for under his nighttime hide that covers a good portion of the night side of the tank. Hes got a locking screen on top for when he is bigger, he isnt terrorizing my apartment. I bought a 10 gallon tank with 3 male mice, 3 female mice, and a separate holding tank for the babies. I also put aluminum foil on the top of the screen around the lights that cover about 70% of the screen, i left around the lights open so he can get air and ventilation. My next project is getting one of those expensive heat lamp timers, that way i can be more accurate on him getting proper day lamp/night lamp exposure.

That being said, the thermometer in his tank is always in the low 80's. I know it needs to be around 90, but i have no idea how i can boost it. I cant get another heating pad on the bottom because he needs a cooler side of the tank, plus my water dish is over there. Maybe a better light?

First, if he is eating 2 hoppers, then I would say he is ready for at least a young adult mouse. My normals are not big eaters so when they started eating 2 of a item, I knew it was time to bump up the size.

Second, OMG, just reading these forum or wikis gives great advice on taking care of these easy to manage Balls. You didnt get lucky, you did what you were supposed to do.

Balls basically tell you what they want.

Just like most people will tell you gravid females wont eat after thier shed. Mine says they are full of it. She still wants her rat and actively searches during that time.

If you had done the research then you would know that they don't eat insects. And you would know that you can't use a UTH without a thermostat, and a DIGITAL thermometer with a probe. Those stick on thermometers are crap, they don't measure the hot spot. They measure the ambient temps, and incorrectly at that. You need to measure the belly heat, or your snake will get burned.

The thermometer came with the kit. Im only using it to measure moisture really. And wow with the scolding... First snake owner here and i thought these forums would be ideal for people to help and teach...

I wouldn't take it as a scolding man. I think alot of people on these forums are frustrated with the pet stores and their bad and sometimes dangerous information. I think your doing better than most by trying to seek out better info. Many of us (including myself) have discovered our Ball Pythons severely burned from their UTH because no one told them it had to be hooked up to a Thermostat. And as someone else said those sticky thermometers are terrible, pretty much next to usless, if you crank up the temperature on one side of the tank to get the sticky to read 90 the real temp inside is going to be WAY too hot.

The ambient temperature in the warm side of the tank should only be 80-84, now the glass on top of your UTH needs to be NO MORE than 94 degrees, this is important because this is how most BP's get burnt, they can't regulate their belly temp and will burn themselves. In order to measure the temperature on the glass above your UTH you need a digital thermometer with a probe to make contact with that spot or more ideally a inferred thermometer(one like this http://tempgun.com/ ).
It will be a challenge with the lamp (which I do not recommend, heat lamps tend to do more harm than good) is keeping the humity above 50% in his tank. If its too low your BP will have a hard time shedding. Every time your BP sheds its your job to inspect the shed to make sure the eye caps and the tip of the tail came off. Now you want all the skin to come off but those 2 are the most important things to check.

Instead of buying a timer for your lamp I would recommend either getting rid of the lamp or buying a ceramic heat emitter or a inferred bulb. With those the BP cannot see the light emitted and will get their day/night cycle from the natural light coming through the windows. If you use a timer then when it turns off the temperature will drop at night, you do not want that, BP's temperatures should remain the same day and night.

Here is good thermostat to use that is reasonable priced
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...116395&sr=8-29

If you have any questions about this or anything else please let us know.

Thanks a lot agent, I will definitely get that amazon thermostat. Also could i get some links to some infrared bulbs and ceramic heat emitter? What wattage is recommended for the bulbs?

I will say this...

I used to use a glass tank, up until recently. It is definately a challenge keeping the temps and humidity right. I switched to a tub and now have no problems with either. If I had any sense early on, I would have made the switch a long time ago. I read on here how much easier tubs were to maintain, but I had no way of housing the tub properly until recently and I am so glad I took the time to make the space for it. I actually made space for more tubs, since I have more balls incoming soon!

I know sometimes we can seem impatient and stand-offish, please don't take offense.

We see a lot here on the forums of people who got their pet as an impulse buy, and when things go wrong and we try to correct it, too many times we find people unwilling to do what is necessary, and it gets frustrating. I will admit even I wondered what you were doing owning a ball if you thought it might eat crickets, but the important thing is, you are here looking for help and are willing to do what is needed to help your snake. Not to mention, if the pet shop told you it was too small to eat mice, what on earth were they feeding it ?

I will let you know you are going to have a devil of a time maintaining that 40 gallon tank, which really is too big for a ball, even an adult. Well, with the exception of a really big female anyway. That being said, once you have your thermostat for the UTH and an accurate thermometer, if you find the ambient temps are too low without the lamp, do invest in a ceramic heat emitter. You are still going to battle with humidity, but they are preferable to heat lamps. Depending on your ambient temps when measured with an accurate thermometer, will determine the wattage of the CHE you need. If your temps are low, around 70-74, you'll want a higher wattage than if they are 78-80.

If you do a forum search in the Ball Python forums on humidity, you'll find lots of helpful posts on keeping your humidity up.

I would also follow the advice you have received and get your snake on at least adult mice. My newborn spider can take a hopper mouse easily, so trust me yours can handle an adult mouse or weanling rat.

I wish you all the best with your new snake.

Gale

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

That being said, the thermometer in his tank is always in the low 80's. I know it needs to be around 90, but i have no idea how i can boost it. I cant get another heating pad on the bottom because he needs a cooler side of the tank, plus my water dish is over there. Maybe a better light?

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Maybe I'm reading into this too much, but you said thermometer as in only one. In general, you're going to want a temperature reading from both the hot and cold side of the tank. They need the ability to regulate their temperature, and there's a big difference between a tank with 100 on one side and 75 on the other compared to a tank thats 87 all the way through. (Neither one of those is actually good since the constant 87 won't allow for regulation and the other has temperatures that are too extreme, but you get my point.) If your thermometer is in the center, you're getting the average, but the heat gradient is what's important.

new tub. i have a new post with the tub battle, trying to get Mitch the perfect home.

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

Why is everyone saying i got lucky from not doing research? I researched Ball Pythons. Ive read multiple care booklets, online guides, learned from word-of-mouth etc. Mitch isnt in a shoebox in my oven, I want him to live the 30+ years that ball pythons can live. I bough a snake starter kit (40 gallon tank,

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too big

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

1 day heat lamp, 1 night heat lamp,

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Not necessary. A UTH would be fine with a smaller tank.

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

1 water dish, 1 hide,

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You need to identical tight fitting hides

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

misting spray, and reptile turf)

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Reptile turf is not a great subrstrate, gets smelly and is a pain to clean

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

I also got him a reptile heat pad for under his nighttime hide that covers a good portion of the night side of the tank

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Your snake will be hiding durring the day hopefully on the hot side and out and about, if at all, at night

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

. Hes got a locking screen on top for when he is bigger, he isnt terrorizing my apartment.

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You should use those locking clips now, your snake is strong, they are escape artists.

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

I bought a 10 gallon tank with 3 male mice, 3 female mice,

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One male is all you would need to breed 3 females. 3 females is going to produce way more mice than you actually need. Frozen thawed is a much better way to go if your snake will eat frozen.

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

and a separate holding tank for the babies.

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You are going to need more than one for all the babies. Incidentally a 10 gallon tank would be a good starting tank for your BP.

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

I also put aluminum foil on the top of the screen around the lights that cover about 70% of the screen, i left around the lights open so he can get air and ventilation. My next project is getting one of those expensive heat lamp timers, that way i can be more accurate on him getting proper day lamp/night lamp exposure.

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a 10 dollar day night timer on a florescent light would be fine.

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Originally Posted by Mikekrause2000

That being said, the thermometer in his tank is always in the low 80's. I know it needs to be around 90, but i have no idea how i can boost it. I cant get another heating pad on the bottom because he needs a cooler side of the tank, plus my water dish is over there. Maybe a better light?

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Tub or a smaller tank would help

I point all of these things out because these things along with not being sure if the snake would eat crickets makes us think you might not have done enough research. Non of that matters though. You want to do the right thing for your pet and thats the most important thing. Soak up the knowledge on this site and you will have every chance at a great snake that lives for many years.

Welcome Mike... I am here in Southern NH if you ever need help with your setup, I'm more than happy to help.

If you are in Southern NH, I am a faitful over at Dave's Dragons on Mast Rd in Goffstown. They are very helpful, and have everything you need with regards to tank setup, and feeders.

:welcome: to keeping ball pythons and good luck! :)
Read through the caresheets posted and some of the threads on BP.net. You'll be a confident owner in no time.
:pepsi: