Need freshwater fish help--ASAP!!!!

I'm going to be blatantly honest here, and you can rag on me if you want, but that's not going to fix the problem. I'm aware of what I did wrong, and I don't need to be flamed, I need HELP to save my fish.
I have owned fish for 3 years now, in a 20 gallon tank. Some of the fish I put in on day one after cycling the tank are still alive today.
During the 3 years I kept them I did not do any water changes more than once per year.
Just recently I read you should do water changes for freshwater fish more often than that. :tears:
Now my problem is, when I do a water change, all it does is kick up more junk--so much junk that I am scared the fish cannot breathe. I can't even see them in the tank! It's foggy with junk.
I have nowhere to put them when I do the water change so I usually just take out half the water and fill it back up, using my suction thingy to get the stuff out of the bottom in the gravel.
What should I do? Should I just do a complete 100% water change, and see if I can borrow someone's tank or buy one for cheap to put the fish in while I do that?
It's awful. I feel stupid because I looked in my tank and thought, "It's clean!" I didn't know all the stuff was under the gravel hiding. :tears:
Please help me--I want my fish to live!

Hi,

It's been years since I kept fish so my advice may be well out of date. :oops:

I always did the water changes using nothing but the gravel cleaner and a bucket - just suck up all the crud from the gravel and move slowly so as not to kick up too much gunk into the water. Get used to stopping the water flow while you move the gravel cleaner from spot to spot to increase the amount of cleaning you do for the smallest amount of water changed.

I used to change about 20% of the water every week on average.

Once you have the right amount of water syphoned out slowly and carefully remove any decor etc you need to clean and then clean it in the bucket of water you are about to discard. This is also where you clean the filter sponges if you are using internal filters.

Then all I had to do was treat and temp match the water to top the tank back up and put it carefully back in so I didnt blast any left over gunk all over the place.

But somebody has to have come up with a better system by now. :cool:


dr del

See, I do that but when I suck up the ick at the bottom, there is so much that it gets swirled around every where.
Also when I put more clean water in, it too kicks stuff up. :(
I don't know what to do.

I would NOT do a 100% water change - that will shock your fish.
Just keep at it, the junk floating in the water shouldn't kill your fish or anything. Just be as careful as you can and change 30 - 50% of the water as often as you can (I'd do it every day until all the crud is gone)

I had the same problem with my fresh water tank a few years ago. I ended up doing around a 50% water change and replace the gravel on half of the tank. After about two week I did another 50% change and removed the other half of the gravel. I just couldn't get out all the debris otherwise. Good luck

Hi,

The only thing I can think of is you are stirring the gravel with the cleaner? Move very slowly when repositioning it and plunge it straight down into the gravel and withdraw it straight up and stop the water drain just after removing it.

The amount of ick will go down with each cleaning so it should become less and less of a risk. :gj:

Does your tank have support spars across the top anywhere?

I used to use a watering can amd slowly pour the replacement water across the spars to prevent it jetting down into the water if that helps. :)


dr del

another thing you can do is just get a measuring cup or bowl and scoop out some gravel and go wash it in the sink. Put it in a clean bucket. The next day scoop out some more and do the same. Eventually you'll have all the gravel clean and in a bucket and ready to go back in the tank. This might keep the floating crud to a minimum while you renovate the tank.

Never completely clean out and disinfect the gravel as it holds a ton of good bacteria for the tank. As does the filter, so its best to change the filter a few days before a water change to retain as much good bacteria as possible.

I would just recommend doing water changes once a week taking about 2 gallons of water out from your ten gallon with your gravel vacuum. If you have a ton of gunk on the bottom, your obviously overfeeding your fish, so i would cut back on the feeding and start maintaining the tank more often. The biggest think with freshwater tanks is being consistent and cleaning the tank on a schedule so the oxygen gets refreshed and your fish don't suffocate.

what are you running for a biological filter?
It's true about the gravel holding beneficial bacteria, but I was assuming you had enough bio filtration running in addition to that.
If you don't explicitly have a biological filter then it's true you shouldn't remove or clean all the gravel at the same time.

I have a Whisper filter. My tank is a 20 gal.
The junk on the bottom I think is fish poop. :/ or snail poop. Because when I suck it up with the suction thing, it's stinky. :/ It's way down in the bottom though so it has settled.
Some snails hitched a ride on a plant I got when I first set up the tank, and now I have a hundred or so ramshorn shell snails in there. I don't know if they affect the ecosystem or not. Someone at a pet store said my fish might be eating the snails and it could help their health. :/
IDK.
Also, I feed my fish once a day. I don't know how I could be feeding too much. I have 2 orange tetras (HAD three, one died a month ago), 3 skirt fin tetras, one flying fox, one golden gourami. Used to have an albino cory catfish, another golden gourami, african dwarf frogs, a baby tetra of some kind, and I think a few other fish (all at different times, mind you, not all of those at once!).
I still fed them once a day. They act like piggies every time I feed them and even chase each other around to compete for food. :/
So, I know I shouldn't disinfect the gravel (I thought you weren't supposed to use any disinfectants or soap anyway), but can I just scoop some out and rinse it real good under cold water?
Shellie

Hi,

You can try it - but I gaurantee it will throw up more gunk into the tank than the gravel cleaner method.

I don't know what a whisper filter is but if it has a sponge then clean that in the water you have removed from the tank rather than fresh - to protect the beneficial bacteria mentioned above.


dr del

When you add fresh water, I hope you used a product on that water that both removes chlorine and chloramine, you will stir up the bottom "stuff" but it will settle down eventually. Only do a 10% to 15% water change and no more than once a week. The "stuff" is fish/snail poop that has been, or is being broken down by good bacteria. Good bacteria for you fish that is. You don't want to remove all that stuff, and honestly you can't without destroying your tanks ecosystem, plus the "stuff" would still be there. You might consider live plants like Java Ferns, the roots now have something to grow into and that will hold the "stuff" down so less will be disturbed by water changes.

Snails really create more pollution than they are worth and unless you have a fish that feeds on them as their primary food source (and you don't seem to have any of those), I would work on getting rid of them (suck them up when you siphon during water changes).

When adding water, don't pour directly onto the gravel, pour it along the side of the tank so that it more gently mixes with existing water and you will disturb the bottom less. You might also consider changing the filter on you Whisper after you change the water so the new filters can catch more of the floating debris.

Post some pics of the tank, it sound nice.

PEACE

:(
I don't wanna get rid of the snails! I love them. I think they're so funny. And they're pretty--I love when they attach onto stuff, and then let go to move elsewhere and just float around in circles :D
I've tried cleaning out the snails before. I feel awful killing them. If they do harm to my tank, I don't want to kill them...do you think I could put them in a separate tank and fill it with gravel and plants? I really, really like them. I don't know why. I pity the ugly things, and these snails are so ugly they're cute. :)
The whisper filter is a filter system that uses black spongey cartridges to suck out junk in the tank.
I have nothing to treat the new water with except for a tiny bottle from the pet store. I used it when I first set my tank up. However, after reading the bottle just now, it says I can use it while the fish are in there, OR I can move them elsewhere. Should I use that on the water? :confused:
I will post pics in a moment. :D

This is what I've found works for me. I'm sure some people have different methods, but my fish are healthy and happy.

A freshwater tank should be cleaned once every 2 weeks or so. With a small 20 gallon tank you can use a gravel vacuum and clean the gravel while getting the water out. I usually change 30% of the water. The new water should be dechlorinated before adding it to the tank. You can pick up a dechlorinator at any pet store. You can add it directly to the tank, but I usually add it to the water in the bucket before I put it in the tank. Make sure the water you're adding is the same temperature as the tank water. The filter sponge can be rinsed out under warm water to clear out all the gunk, but not on the same day you change the water. Also, never do a 100% water change or clean out/wash/or rinse out the gravel. The filter does not keep your tank clean, it's all the good bacteria living in the filter and in the gravel that keeps the ammonia from all the fish poo and uneaten food down to a manageable level. This is why you cycle a tank at the beginning, to get all that good bacteria in the tank alive and well before you add fish.

It's not too late to help your fish. Just start doing regular water changes and they'll be fine. Regular water changes get rid of the ammonia and the byproducts of the good bacteria making the water healthy for the fish. Make sure to get the dechloriator because chlorine is toxic to fish and your drinking water has it.

Also, all the gunk that is stirred up is not a big deal. If the water looks cloudy or dirty it shouldn't hurt your fish. Fish live in muddy water all over the world. But if you're worried about it focus your cleaning on one side of the tank one week, and one side of the tank the next week to keep the gunk down. It will settle back to the bottom in a couple hours.

Also, when you go to the pet store see if you can pick up a canister filter. It's basically a separate filter that sits next to the tank. It's got a system of filters and sponges and material for the good bacteria to grow on. Don't let the petstore sell you "carbon" or a filter that uses carbon. Carbon is only useful for removing medicines from the water. It's not so great for you fish. The biggest thing to remember is that if you keep the good bacteria in the tank healthy, it takes care of your water and keeps your fish healthy.

Hope this helps! I've kept freshwater for a while, and this is what works for me.

I agree with this

Quote:

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only do a 10% to 15% water change and no more than once a week.

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It is good advise. A canister filter is also good advise, however "Carbon" is important in a canister filter. You want specifically activated carbon. It "polishes" the water making it clear not yellowish or brownish, it also pulls out the "smell" of the fish tank. It can also remove heavy metals from your tap water and as previously stated medicines from the water. Carbon is a useful addition to your tank filtration system. But it must be changed out at least monthly.

Just remember when dealing with your fish tank the problems didn't happen overnight. Your "fix" shouldn't either. You should also purchase a test kit that tests ammonia, PH, nitrate and nitrite. Then test your water weekly before your 10% water changes. This will help you stay ontop of what is going on in your tank. Once you have a good maintnance schedual and you have a handle on your levels in your tank you can back off to testing once every 2 weeks or so.

Good luck with your tank!

With the feeding, since no one mentioned much about that...

If you feed as the food containers state, you're over-feeding. The general rule I always used was to feed a fish the amount to size of it's eyeball(more or less). That's a very small amount compared to what most folks feed a fish, so check the amount you give them next feeding. Fish can eat a lot more than they need, they just poo a lot more.

Some fish actually get less nutrition from too much food(I had this with baby seahorses in fact) when their system pushed the food through too quickly to absorb nutrients properly.

Like others said, don't worry about the tank looking cloudy when you're changing water, it's generally supposed to look like that when you're stirring up the dirty parts. It'll clear out quickly. With you doing proper maintance, I'm sure it'll be at peak conditions soon! But it's not overnight, so be patient and soon your tank should be sparkly clean and you'll be able to relax! Good luck!

I have test strips that test the PH balance. I use them frequently. It's been normal, all across the board.
:/ I have NOT been feeding the amount equal to their eyeball. I generally sprinkle a few tropical flakes in the tank, then put some algae wafers (for the flying fox, though I don't think he's eating them. little booger), and some sinking pellets.
The flying fox prefers the food that sinks. However, he's been getting aggressive which everyone at pet stores has been saying is due to him competing for food (algae), so I bought wafers...
How often should I feed the eyeball amount to the fish?

Photos of my tank:
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...1ab55d44-1.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ear17/16-1.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ear17/13-1.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ear17/12-1.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ear17/11-1.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ebear17/10.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...bear17/8-1.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...bear17/7-2.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...bear17/4-2.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...bear17/3-2.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...bear17/2-2.jpg

I just added those decorations yesterday, I had ones before but I wanted to change it. What do you think of the colors? :P

so your tank probably is relying on the gravel somewhat for bio filtration.
What I recommend is you take out half the gravel and rinse it really well with either TANK water or dechlorinated lukewarm tap water. That way you won't kill the bacteria coating the gravel.
Put it back in the tank and wait two weeks before taking the other half of the gravel out for a good rinsing.
Once the gravel is all cleaned, in the future you want to stir up the gravel when you do a water change.
Part of what you are smelling is the nasty gases that anaerobic bacteria produce. When gravel is not stirred up for a long time it gets compacted and oxygen doesn't get down in there. That kills the good bacteria and allows anerobic bacteria to grow.
Good luck!

It seems to me that you have too much gravel. A tank only needs about 1" of gravel...which really isn't even needed if the tank is setup properly (I have several tanks with no gravel at all).

Either way...continue doing 50% water changes each week or even bi-weekly. It will eventually sort itself out.

Ok, I have the lazy-fish-keeper's method for my tanks. I have a 29 gallon tank. I have 4 5-gallon buckets from Lowe's (I think it was like 2 bucks apiece). I have an Emperor filter rated for 50 gallons with a bio-wheel.

I have gravel that is graduated from 2 inches on one side to 3inches on the other side. I keep mostly gouramis in it now but I used to keep discus too successfully.

I don't do water changes except for 2 times a year. The water naturally evaporates and I just tap it off.

I clean the gravel every water change. I drain the water into the 4 lowe's buckets including the fish. I try not to disturb the gravel when I do this. Then I wash out the entire tank, gravel and all. Then I put the water and fish back - should fill the tank up to 2/3 of the tank. Then I put "prepped" water into the tank. Prepping - I use the buckets To hold the new water and I match the pH and temps of the tank water before I add the new water in.

Other than that, I make sure not to overfeed, I clean the filter pads monthly, I got a pleco and a catfish for my "clean-up" crew, and it's all good.

The bio-wheel in my filter takes care of good bacteria stuff.

for a 20 gallon aquarium you need a filter in the range of ohhhh 100-120 gph (gallons/hr) and one with some type of biological filtration, either sponges after the charcoal filters or a biowheel, also small gravel smaller then a pea is bad, since you have such small gravel; gunk, poop, or debris will be harder to get out, i recommend using sand as a substrate..stuff doesnt get caught in it, and if you use a siphon hose you can just suck up the debris off the top, also, larger gravel, roulghy larger then a pea but smaller then a small grape work decently too, oh yes if you use sand you have to have an outside biological filter, such as a biowheel, or canister filter. but your best bet is just to keep vacumning weekly about 20% of the water no more. make sure you de chlorinate the water and get rid of all the hard metals, my thing is i treat the water the day before, let it sit for the day then temp match it and add it the day you clean, also pour the water through a strainer or something...

sorry for rambling fish keeping is my thing.:banana: