a must read about rodent diet

mazuri all the way. here are some things to keep in mind when deciding. let me know what you think.

i have heard people on here ask how to get the smell down. well here is what i did. i used to complain untill i actually thought about it. when we humans eat poorly we pass gas a it is bad. we also look bad and feel that way. if we eat good and dont eat junk then we are better off in that area. we even feel better and our bodies are in better shape.

therefore we should feed our rodents the diet they need. if you feed them junk that there bodies dont need then it gets passed through the body and they pea and poop it out and it smells worse than it should. the right good food helps a lot with the smell. remember that people say that rats do just fine in the wild. they do and they stink in the wild also. well maybe not, because they arent force feed junk food all day. imo

you will go through more food with crap food because the rats have to eat more of it to get the nutrition they need out of it.

another thing is the production of the babies. i have had an increase in output ever since i have used mazuri. even if it is only 1,2, or even 3 more babies per litter. add that up, 10 moms 10 litters plus a few more babies each litter that is about 20-30 babies more or even more. that in its self pays for the bag of mazuri.

lets talk about the survival rate of the babies. i can remember the last time i had a still born. if the mom is healthy she will have a healthy litter. and the babies will grow up better and healthier. if the moma rat is unhealthy do you think that her feeding the babies is any better.

so the bag of the cheap stuff(dog food) has all the same numbers on it as the mazuri. like protien, fat ect. what is the source of the protien and the source of the fat. i will tell you that it is not what they need. they dont need there fat and protein from meat, that is not what they eat.

people wonder why there rats arent getting pregnant or having small litters, well here is my two cents. why do you think that the big breeders use it, probably to make more money.

feed your dog the dog food your hog the hog food and your cat your cat food. Or better yet you can eat the hog or dog food, it will be cheaper wouldnt it.lol

If you agree or disagree then say so and say why. thank you

You make a valid point, but I will stick with my Purina Sunny Acres hog feed, been using it for almost a year with great results :)

I use Mazuri.

They still stink to high heavens.

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Originally Posted by anatess

I use Mazuri.

They still stink to high heavens.

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same here specially with mice and rats, I still have he birthing issues I had before I suded mazuri ( spelling) of some balding of the asf pups at some point but I also have seen the production numbers fall off. May be just thtoo many inbreeding or what I not sure) but going across the county to the west side to get 2 little 25 lb bags a month just not cutting it. I going back to the mixure of dog/cat food and some seeds for treats and noodles lol.. I right now needing to buy rodents to keep up with my needs whenI was selling/giving them away at the same time last year( even with the 9 new snakes) I still falling short on rodents and to make it worst the local shops never got the size I need.

Mazuri is insanely expensive (and not to mention, so few stores sell it). $5 for a three pound bag. I tried the stuff and my mice wouldn't touch it, so I ended up wasting my money. I just feed them dog food. Average litter size is 11, no stillborns, fast growth rate.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Mazuri is insanely expensive (and not to mention, so few stores sell it). $5 for a three pound bag. I tried the stuff and my mice wouldn't touch it, so I ended up wasting my money. I just feed them dog food. Average litter size is 11, no stillborns, fast growth rate.

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The Mazuri found in pet store is highly expensive and cannot compare to the Mazuri for animal used as feeders.

Mazuri 6F which is used for feeders cost about $20/$25 for a 50lbs bag (depending on your area), this can be found/ordered in/by feed stores carrying purina

i feed kent 23% rodent diet i get it for 12$ for 50lbs

I only have 2 rats but I use mazuri. When I did breed I never ran into any kind of problem. I don't know if thats the food, but personally I don't see why you wouldn't use it. I mean if you can't locate it I get that, but to me it seems to be the best for them. I also notice it seems like they enjoy it quite a bit. And 25 bucks for a 50lb bag isn't that bad. I personally am a person of "piece of mind," and knowing there eating the best leaves one less problem to go wrong during breeding. Kind of a no brainer for me...

I disagree that mazuri is the only way to go although I'd like to try it sometime with my rats. Thing is I've tried to find some locally but I don't want to hassle with ording the stuff since I only breed 1.2 or 1.3. I feed dog food and have healthy adults and babies. Never had a litter under 10 and I average 11-12, max out at 13. So far no still borns, no mommas eating babies or any issues like that (only time I had a problem is with two first time moms fighting over babies). Males get the females pregnant on first go.

Keep in mind there are three criteria when it comes to successfully keeping/breeding rats: diet, enviorment, genetics.

I will agree that not all dog/hog foods are good choices.

well ithink my result are now set, was feeding maruzi over summer I had 3 litters of asf pup a grand total of 30 pups. been feeding dogfood/cat food mix about a month I cam come to 3 asf litters at once i one tank ( lab tub what ever want to call them) and at just a glance I betting 30 babies easy, I was totally shocked since i had plannd on feeding the entire tub off on saturday once i got home.

I not havea large rat pup litter, the asf litters, and a bunch of mice litters. all since i swapped back to the other mix. I may get a bag once in a while and mix in with the cat/dog as well as get some kind of medium sized seed. just to give them a diet change as needed.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

The Mazuri found in pet store is highly expensive and cannot compare to the Mazuri for animal used as feeders.

Mazuri 6F which is used for feeders cost about $20/$25 for a 50lbs bag (depending on your area), this can be found/ordered in/by feed stores carrying purina

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I have a max of about twenty mice. Ordering that much food would be overkill. I'll just stick to dog food. Cheaper and easier to get.

Hog Feed for the Soft Furs (Tub Setup) and Dog Food for the Rats (Rack Setup). Im getting an average of 10 soft furs per litter with the hog feed. Im still waiting for the Rats because ive only had them 2-3 weeks now.

Check out the ingredients of what everyone uses. They all consist roughly of the same stuff. Nothing far out of the ordinary of what rats shouldnt have. As far as the smell, thats just the nature of the animal. Your not gonna make poop smell good. No matter what. Ive found the rats dont smell too bad if there in a decently ventilated area and cleaned often. And my Soft Furs dont smell at all. I keep them in my room and i have roughly 50 of them right now.

While I know people have good luck with Mazuri, people have good luck with hog feed or another brand of lab block, people have good luck with cat/dog food and table scraps, and rats out in the wild do good on garbage and foraging our gardens.

While I DO believe we should feed good food to our rodents, crappy dog food is crappy for dogs. Because many Walmart brands are made with mostly grains and fillers, it is actually quite good for rodents. Feeding two different brands, tossing in a bit of cat food, some lab blocks from wherever, table scraps, oat meal, and other things is just fine as well. I don't do the two brands, but I am doing everything else + whatever we had for dinner that night, and I have healthy rats and a litter on the way from one female for sure.
And once that bag of dog food runs out (hell, that's a GOOD dog food, Nature's Recipe), I'll be using the 14% hog feed at Walmart.

The only thing I think EVERYONE should do is avoid food dyes, as I heard something about the Red 40 dye being bad for snakes, but anything else goes, I think. Everyone else is going to have different results, but all input is helpful to everyone.

show me an article that says a red dye fed to a rat is bad for the snake please.

I switched my stuff to the doggie bag dog food and the only thing I have noticed is that I am saving $10+ a bag. I don't have to order it in special like Mazuri. I am not limited to suppliers, I can get it at all TSC stores.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

show me an article that says a red dye fed to a rat is bad for the snake please.

I switched my stuff to the doggie bag dog food and the only thing I have noticed is that I am saving $10+ a bag. I don't have to order it in special like Mazuri. I am not limited to suppliers, I can get it at all TSC stores.

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What kind of food do you use?

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

show me an article that says a red dye fed to a rat is bad for the snake please.

I switched my stuff to the doggie bag dog food and the only thing I have noticed is that I am saving $10+ a bag. I don't have to order it in special like Mazuri. I am not limited to suppliers, I can get it at all TSC stores.

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I'd say that when the dog food has so much red dye in it that it makes the dog crap red..Then it's over kill.

I use the doggy bag dog food from tractor supply too. It's like 12$ for 40lbs.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

What kind of food do you use?

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It is actually called "doggie bag"..

Tractor supply has it.

If I lived where Kent was available, I would use that.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I'd say that when the dog food has so much red dye in it that it makes the dog crap red..Then it's over kill.

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snakes will eat many things in the wild covered in ticks, mites, and loaded with infection and disease. If you ate ONE item only like a dog on kibble does, your crap would change colors also. Don't judge it by that.

the only thing i dont get is, you people always talk about low protein. then why on the purnia brand DEVELOPED by SCIENTISTS for BREEDER lab rodents, which are held to a far higher standard, do they use 23% protein? idc where it comes from, but ill bet my money on the smart people who develop it with far stricter standards in mind. just my 2 cents

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

the only thing i dont get is, you people always talk about low protein. then why on the purnia brand DEVELOPED by SCIENTISTS for BREEDER lab rodents, which are held to a far higher standard, do they use 23% protein? idc where it comes from, but ill bet my money on the smart people who develop it with far stricter standards in mind. just my 2 cents

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who do you think checks a dog feed makers claims? The FDA has enough trouble keeping food from killing people.

i use sunseed critter cubes(lab block) and i supplement with the tsc doggy bag brand dog food. i have great litters. i have had a decline recently but i feel its due to the age of the female rats. theve all been breeding for about a year now and i have their replacements already in line.
when i was doing mice my biggest problem was overcrowding. it will harm your production more than anything
adam jeffery

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

snakes will eat many things in the wild covered in ticks, mites, and loaded with infection and disease. If you ate ONE item only like a dog on kibble does, your crap would change colors also. Don't judge it by that.

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Considering the dog also got table scraps..I'll pass. Also..

http://www.feingold.org/Research/dye-studies.html
http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewto...t=3102&start=0
http://tzunun.home.mindspring.com/reddye.htm
http://www.paghat.com/reddye.html

Long story short, red dye #40 is carcinogenic. A.k.a causes cancer.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Considering the dog also got table scraps..I'll pass. Also..

http://www.feingold.org/Research/dye-studies.html
http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewto...t=3102&start=0
http://tzunun.home.mindspring.com/reddye.htm
http://www.paghat.com/reddye.html

Long story short, red dye #40 is carcinogenic. A.k.a causes cancer.

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so if you eat a hamburger from a cow that had cancer you will get cancer also? Also did the study show that the dye was 100% effective in causing cancer in all cases? You do realize that it has been proven that things like cigarettes tend to promote a condition (like cancer) in animals that their genetic lines probably would have developed it anyway? So to put it in simple terms. Not everyone who smokes gets cancer, not every rat that eats a certain diet will get it either. Your rat or snake may get a disease no matter what you feed it. Show me a study that shows 'Ole Roy' dog food caused cancer in dogs. They still add the red dye. If it was causing cancer in dogs wouldn't they gone bankrupt by now?

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Originally Posted by adamjeffery

i use sunseed critter cubes(lab block) and i supplement with the tsc doggy bag brand dog food. i have great litters. i have had a decline recently but i feel its due to the age of the female rats. theve all been breeding for about a year now and i have their replacements already in line.
when i was doing mice my biggest problem was overcrowding. it will harm your production more than anything
adam jeffery

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they have a 12-15 month window and then they are pretty much shot...some may go beyond but most don't. The litters drop off, they kill their litters...etc.

the guy on tegu talk "found the genetic link to cancer"...


that is wow on a huge level...

and yet he is not a millionaire...

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

so if you eat a hamburger from a cow that had cancer you will get cancer also? Also did the study show that the dye was 100% effective in causing cancer in all cases? You do realize that it has been proven that things like cigarettes tend to promote a condition (like cancer) in animals that their genetic lines probably would have developed it anyway? So to put it in simple terms. Not everyone who smokes gets cancer, not every rat that eats a certain diet will get it either. Your rat or snake may get a disease no matter what you feed it. Show me a study that shows 'Ole Roy' dog food caused cancer in dogs. They still add the red dye. If it was causing cancer in dogs wouldn't they gone bankrupt by now?

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;D cows with cancer aren't allowed to enter the slaughter house.

If you eat something that has been contaminated with something, you're going to get sick from it. By this, I mean poisons. There are multiple studies that show red dye #40 causes cancer. Also, you'd have to prove that the cancer in the dog was caused by red dye #40.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

;D cows with cancer aren't allowed to enter the slaughter house.

If you eat something that has been contaminated with something, you're going to get sick from it. By this, I mean poisons. There are multiple studies that show red dye #40 causes cancer. Also, you'd have to prove that the cancer in the dog was caused by red dye #40.

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you apparently have never been in a slaughter house.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

you apparently have never been in a slaughter house.

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I doubt you have either.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext...CONDEMNED.HTML

Oh. Look. Proof to back up my claims.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

who do you think checks a dog feed makers claims? The FDA has enough trouble keeping food from killing people.

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i simply meant, i dont understand why most people want lower protein, when the good stuff formulated specifically for breeding rats is 3%-9% higher protien.

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

i simply meant, i dont understand why most people want lower protein, when the good stuff formulated specifically for breeding rats is 3%-9% higher protien.

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Mouse/rat people (the ones who show rodents) claim that too much protein in the diet can cause sores. I haven't seen this in any of my mice though. So, that's where the low protein idea might have come from.

Some say high protein causes kidney failure too. I don't know if it's true. I might do a study with soft furs feeding them strictly 30% protein cat food and find out.

As far as companies advertising there food for breeding rats, purina may have 23%, Mazuri 6F is 16%, Dog food is 18-25%, Hog feed is 14-17%. Who's to really say what's better. It seems we all are producing young without a problem so what's it matter.

just one of those things i think about lol

the kent brand rodent feed is also 23%

i prefer not to use the dog food just because of how nasty it makes their fur. its quite a noticeable difference from when i fed dog food in a pinch a few times, compared to feeding the 20% range block or either of the actual lab rodent diets.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Considering the dog also got table scraps..I'll pass. Also..

http://www.feingold.org/Research/dye-studies.html
http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewto...t=3102&start=0
http://tzunun.home.mindspring.com/reddye.htm
http://www.paghat.com/reddye.html

Long story short, red dye #40 is carcinogenic. A.k.a causes cancer.

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Oh my god... I'm now checking food I eat for red dye! I thought that snakes couldn't digest it or something, not stuff like that. :(

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Originally Posted by Shenzi Sixaxis

Oh my god... I'm now checking food I eat for red dye! I thought that snakes couldn't digest it or something, not stuff like that. :(

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Yeah, Im putting my foil hat on too.

Feeding a mix of dog food, grains, and seeds is best. It creates healthy, and hearty mice that are sure to be very good for your reptiles. It is also cheap to feed the mice even a professional show-breeder's diet. A 50lb bag of rolled oats is only around $10, and a 20lb bag of sunflower seeds or millet is only around $15.
Holistic dog foods are the best, because they don't have as much grain in them, and provide lots of protein, but not too much. Too much can cause sterility problems.

Feeding them on dogfood only, or Mazuri only, can cause sterility problems, and lower birth rates.



Two GREAT and effective ways to keep the smell down, is to put 1 drop of pure vanilla extract in their water bottles each time you re-fill, and to put a thin layer of baking soda in each cage/bin before laying down litter. It will help absorb the ammonia.

I swear on baking soda. I'm preparing for at least one of my rats to drop a litter any day now, so I spread about twice what I usually do (which lasts easily 6 days) so I don't have to worry about smell too much, or disturbing mama and babies too soon.

Has the pure vanilla extract been proven? On another forum, every one says that it's BS, but everyone here says it works wonders... :rolleyes:
Also, maybe a stupid question, but what are rolled oats?

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Feeding them on dogfood only, or Mazuri only, can cause sterility problems, and lower birth rates.

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I disagree. I have been feeding my rats successfully with Mazuri 6F only for 2 years.

Mazuri® Rodent Breeder 6F 5M30
Description
A diet designed for feeding rats and mice which are maintained in breeding colonies and intended for use as food for other species (such as reptiles). High producing mice may benefit from using Mazuri Mouse Breeder 9F (5M68).
Features
Contains yucca shidigera - shown to reduce aerosol ammonia in animal facilities.
Designed for maximum production.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein not less than.......................16.0%
Crude fat not less than................................6.0%
Crude fiber not more than...........................6.0%
Ingredients
Ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, porcine animal fat preserved with BHA, cane molasses, wheat middlings, dehydrated alfalfa meal, ground wheat, ground soybean hulls, calcium carbonate, fish meal, salt, brewers dried yeast, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, dried beet pulp, wheat germ, corn gluten meal, soybean oil, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, dried yucca shidigera extract, cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), thiamin mononitrate, folic acid, biotin, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, nicotinic acid, vitamin A acetate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate.

Anatess, so not get me wrong. :)
I said it can, not that it always does. Some people, I agree, have complete success with it.
I breed for show, and my extras go for feeders, perhaps it is the methods of breeding that show breeders use, that can often have more sterile mice pop up. Who knows. That's my theory though.

Rolled oats, are just plain old grains from the feed store. Great stuff for mice.
And everyone I know from pet and show breeding forums, swears by vanilla extract. I have too many cages to justify doing it, because it would just add another troublesome task to my daily rounds, but from what I've seen (smelled) it works great. :)

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Originally Posted by Raptor

;D cows with cancer aren't allowed to enter the slaughter house.

If you eat something that has been contaminated with something, you're going to get sick from it. By this, I mean poisons. There are multiple studies that show red dye #40 causes cancer. Also, you'd have to prove that the cancer in the dog was caused by red dye #40.

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I don't know which post to Laugh My "A" Off at first.

LMAO!!!!

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

the guy on tegu talk "found the genetic link to cancer"...


that is wow on a huge level...

and yet he is not a millionaire...

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Yeah, and this guy emailed me this morning and said that he found out how I could grow my "you know what" four inches in four days.

I think I'm going to spend the $99.99 and order the stuff. I mean, its on the internet it has to be legit right? LMAO!

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

its on the internet it has to be legit right? LMAO!

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Sadly, on an even sadder note, this is not so far off base for many.

I heard a young lady, about 20 years old, talking to her mother the other day.

She, the young lady, was SO stressed out about the earthquake. It was coming in the next 4 days. For sure, no doubt about it.

She had read it on the internet.

I've known this girl, smart but not brilliant, for about 12 years. She's really not stupid. But man oh man is she gullible.

She's not alone.

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

I don't know which post to Laugh My "A" Off at first.

LMAO!!!!

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Helps to look at the link I posted from UC Davis concerning cattle sent to slaughter. Also, I hope you're not laughing at the part of my post concerning poison ingestion. I lost close to ten goats this year due to them eating plants sprayed with herbicide.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Helps to look at the link I posted from UC Davis concerning cattle sent to slaughter. Also, I hope you're not laughing at the part of my post concerning poison ingestion. I lost close to ten goats this year due to them eating plants sprayed with herbicide.

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I would never laugh at someone losing goats because the goats ate poison. That kind of stuff happens too often. I was laughing, because almost every "bologna" cow that goes to the slaughter house has cancer. I see it ALLLL the time.

That's what the last guy claimed. I'm still waiting on proof of his claims. As far as I'm concerned, if you make a claim, have sources to back it up.

Cancerous cells can grow inside your body if they are transplanted into your body while the cells are alive. However, if you eat some dead cancerous tissue, like a tumor ground into some hamburger meat that had been frozen for a month before it got to Sam's Club...umm...you ain't getting cancer LOL.

There are a lot of urban legends about a lot of things. Almost everything that gets digested is killed and destroyed.

If the cow has the beginning stages of cancer where it can't be detected by the human eye, yes, it could end up on the dinner plate. I was referring to cattle with obvious signs of cancer.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

If the cow has the beginning stages of cancer where it can't be detected by the human eye, yes, it could end up on the dinner plate. I was referring to cattle with obvious signs of cancer.

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So was I.

Proof of this?