Whats your opinion on BP morphs and other snake and reptile morphs?

Personally, I've never been a big fan. I live by the rule "if it doesn't exist in nature, it shouldn't exist at all". But don't get me wrong, there are some crazy beauitful morphs out there. Its mainly all the inbreeding that gets me. Like a son bred to the mother, sister to brother, daughter to father. Its kind of...ehh..I don't know, it kinda just makes me cringe. I also feel bad for some of the morphs that come out deformed, some have no eyes, some have extremeley kinked backs, etc. It just kinda makes me sad.

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Personally, I've never been a big fan. I live by the rule "if it doesn't exist in nature, it shouldn't exist at all"

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Where do you think base morph came from? :confused:

Base morphs originated in the wild, than proved out in captivity :confuzd:

Not to mention that it's possible for the morphs to exist in the wild, they just don't live long. Yes, the odds of, say, two cinnamons meeting up in the wild and creating offspring are very poor, but it's possible, and then there would be maybe a super cinny or two out there.

The first morph came out of an albino. The albino Ball Python is the one that made the whole industry big. The albino isn't even a morph, its just a mistake in the gentic code, AKA a mutation. People have albinosm sometimes. Though its rare.

Lets not forget the inbreeding in the wild. You dont think ball pythons, or any other species inbreed in their natural habitats? Ball pythons dont travel huge distances in their life times. Many probably stay within a short radius of where they were born. This means that they end up breeding with their sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, etc.. Inbreeding is actually the root of many species. Their are some theories that we originated from an isolated population of primates that were forced to inbreed due to this isolation and overtime out came us.

Not only is inbreeding present in nature, but it can also cause mutations in the genome that code for improved aspects in a species that causes it to become more successful.

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Originally Posted by Bellabob

The first morph came out of an albino. The albino Ball Python is the one that made the whole industry big. The albino isn't even a morph, its just a mistake in the gentic code, AKA a mutation. People have albinosm sometimes. Though its rare.

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LOL wut?

All morphs ARE mutations.

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Originally Posted by Bellabob

The first morph came out of an albino. The albino Ball Python is the one that made the whole industry big. The albino isn't even a morph, its just a mistake in the gentic code, AKA a mutation. People have albinosm sometimes. Though its rare.

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You know that all morphs are genetic mutations, right?

Yes, I know that all morphs are mutations. But, You never see any of those mutations (besides pastels, and albinos, and maybe a couple others) happening in the wild.

This point has already been made, but you do in fact see ALL the base morphs in the wild. That is where they come from. Albinos, pastels, spiders, cinnamons, mojaves, lessers, butters, axanthics, caramel albinos, enchi, etc., etc. If a genetic mutation happens in captivity, it CAN happen int he wild. Of course you aren't likely to see the combination morphs in the wild, but that is just an odds game.

On a related note, do you feel the same way about other animals? Say, for example, dog breeds? You certainly don't see Chihuahuas or Bulldogs 'in the wild.' What about production animals (pigs, cattle, sheep, goats, etc.)? Just some food for thought.

For some reason, I don't really mind when it comes to other animals. Its probably because I love snakes.

I'm sorry op, but your argument is just bad. I'm not going to state anything in opposition, just wanted to get my opinion out there.

I don't even want to start...

Ball python morphs just like any other morphs and are natural, we do not really control their coming into existence through variation of DNA. DNA is like playing telephone where you whisper into one person's ear then into the next person's. Sometimes it just comes out different than it started.

http://bioenergy.asu.edu/photosyn/co...e/dna-rna.html
If you can understand that it may help you with the genetic game of telephone I'm talking about.

We cannot control defects, it's not our fault that they come to be. These "defects" are also sometimes caused a natural variation. So, they exist in the wild as well. That's why human babies come out missing arms, it's not the parent's fault, is it? There is always a chance that things will not go as planned.

Genetic mutation is just variation in DNA, which is completely natural. So, basically it's like Variation in DNA = Genetic mutation = Morph. They're the same.

About inbreeding, I don't know much about but I hear that it's different with mammals in comparison to reptiles. The only reason this happens for mammals is that both relatives could be het for a certain recessive gene that causes something to go wrong. However, inbreeding can also keep lines more 'clean' because of this. Scientists use inbreeding on animals because it keeps their experiments more controlled because the mice or whatever they are breeding are more similar. (Think of a controlled variable.)

In a sense you dislike variation and you dislike lack of variation which just makes your argument a little off. Since inbreeding causes a lack of variation in DNA and morphs are a variation of DNA. I hope you do some research in the future and learn more about genetics and biology in general, it's really cool and interesting. :)

I believe the reason you dislike morphs is because you do not understand them. Everyone does this, it's not your fault. People breed all the time, so much so that there are trillions of us. Why should we hate on snakes mating through selective breeding? I mean, people do the same, we select a fit mate and roll with it. ;)

People selective breed animals all the time. Dog breeders and cat breeders (and others as well) will cull babies from a litter if there's a defect or otherwise. Responsible breeders will not continue to breed a certain type of snake to another one if it's causing a genetic defect that is harmful to the snake. How was that person supposed to know it was going to happen? Dozens and dozens of morphs have been discovered by experimental breeding. I personally think they're beautiful! Anyway, it's not like everyone's just going to release all their animals into the wild! We aren't talking genetically altered (as in a lab) animals. These are genes that naturally occur! It's like a gene for blue eyes or detached earlobes. It's the same thing! These genes have always existed, and now breeders are unleashing their potential! I personally think it's great!

i dont belive the hobby would be as big as it is with out the morphs,

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Originally Posted by Bellabob

Personally, I've never been a big fan. I live by the rule "if it doesn't exist in nature, it shouldn't exist at all". But don't get me wrong, there are some crazy beauitful morphs out there. Its mainly all the inbreeding that gets me. Like a son bred to the mother, sister to brother, daughter to father. Its kind of...ehh..I don't know, it kinda just makes me cringe. I also feel bad for some of the morphs that come out deformed, some have no eyes, some have extremeley kinked backs, etc. It just kinda makes me sad.

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I love Ball Python morphs with such a passion it was what drove me to start breeding BP myself. As many people have said base morphs are natural but I see no problem with designer morphs (2 or more base morphs combined to make something that would most likely never exist in the wild) either. Personally I am a little wary of inbreeding, I don't do it myself and try keep my blood lines as diverse as possible. However, everything I've ever read about the subject of line breeding says it does not adversely affect reptiles the way it does mammals.
I would feel terrible hatching out a deformed or kinked baby but I haven't yet and I believe that is the extreme minority of captive bred Ball Pythons. I'd say both base and designer morphs have great quality of lives. How often do you hear of an abused Killer Bee or a neglected Spinner Blast? Not too often I'd say. I know for a fact all my BP's are spoiled. And by that I mean they never worry about eating, they are as safe as can be and I go to great lengths to keep them from getting any kind of stress (got to keep they happy and eating!). So I've got to say I don't feel bad at all selectively breeding Ball Python Morphs. I'd save my sympathy for the BPs at the pet store, not ones being hatched by morph breeders.

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Originally Posted by Bellabob

Yes, I know that all morphs are mutations. But, You never see any of those mutations (besides pastels, and albinos, and maybe a couple others) happening in the wild.

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but they do occur in the wild:

yellow bellies
albinos
cinnamons
mojaves
pastels
pieds
spiders
lesser platinums
PLATINUM (the double morph came out of the wild)
hypos
axanthics
clowns
genetic stripes
patternless (i believe)
special/mystic/whatever its being called now
WC ivories have come in I'm pretty sure.
WC leucistics have come in as well

there there over a hundred base morphs in bps ( i think the number is actually closer to 300 proven). Most of those came out of the wild. Like 90% came out of the wild or something crazy. That is a short list because i really have to go to work.

Domestic animals don't "occur" in nature. Humans created the domestic dog along with other species (think animals that can't survive without human interaction like dairy cows).

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Originally Posted by rabernet

All morphs ARE mutations.

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And so is the "normal." Everything that exists is a mutation.

Different snake color morphs are no different than hair color, eye color or skin color. And most of the morphs have been produced in a wild and have been captured as adults. Some have been produced through lucky breeding in captivity.