Caramel Clown or VPI Axanthic Clown

I'm deciding on which way to go with this project, fugured I'd see what everyone's opinions are.

I'd go for the axanthic clown. I think they look better and you don't have to worry about any kinking.

You know which one I picked! Axanthic clown all the way!!! :banana:

Axanthic clown because I love axanthics but another good reason to pick axanthic is no kinking, imagine hitting the double homo caramel clown and it being severely kinked.:( I'd be devasted.

I like Axanthic coloring better vs caramel

Axanthic clown, iam not a big clown person but i think a Axanthic clown would be a vary nice snake,

I voted axanthic.... or go ultramel.....

I would definitely go with caramel, I think the clown pattern would benefit a lot from the caramel colors.

BTW, what is "kinking"?

regards

I chose Axanthic only because Id hate to be invested into a project that tons of complications. Imagine producing a bunch of much needed caramel hets that are all kinked.. or even worst, you hit that 1 in 16 and its kinked. Remember the average female only lays 6 eggs, it may take you up to 3 yrs (18 eggs) to get your Caramel Clown and if it was kinked it could possibly take you another 3 years to get another one. I would have chosen a Ultramel Clown over the Axanthic Clown though. I really love the rich colors of Caramels & Ultramels over Axanthic, but dollar of dollar Id put my money into the axanthic over caramel. Ultramels are another story.

I have a VPI axanthic (my first ball python) so I'm going to have to go with axanthic. :)

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Originally Posted by adogunnaike

I Imagine producing a bunch of much needed caramel hets that are all kinked.. or even worst, you hit that 1 in 16 and its kinked. .

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Het caramels don't kink.

Ultramel Clown > Axanthic Clown > Caramel Clown. I think that about covers it.

I will put my money on Axanthic Clown too, so how are you going to do it?

But what is "kinking"?

regards

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Originally Posted by adogunnaike

I chose Axanthic only because Id hate to be invested into a project that tons of complications. Imagine producing a bunch of much needed caramel hets that are all kinked.. or even worst, you hit that 1 in 16 and its kinked. Remember the average female only lays 6 eggs, it may take you up to 3 yrs (18 eggs) to get your Caramel Clown and if it was kinked it could possibly take you another 3 years to get another one. I would have chosen a Ultramel Clown over the Axanthic Clown though. I really love the rich colors of Caramels & Ultramels over Axanthic, but dollar of dollar Id put my money into the axanthic over caramel. Ultramels are another story.

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in response imagine if you hit the 1/16 odds and its not kinked tho :dance:

kinking is when the snake spine isn't straight, its kinked.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

kinking is when the snake spine isn't straight, its kinked.

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Ok, thanks. Is kinking usual in caramels? because I´ve never heard before about this problem.

regards

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Originally Posted by J.Vandegrift

Het caramels don't kink.

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I meant Caramel hets as in Caramel het Clown. sorry for the confusion :)

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

in response imagine if you hit the 1/16 odds and its not kinked tho :dance:

kinking is when the snake spine isn't straight, its kinked.

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Your right! A caramel clown in my opinion is a very pretty snake!!!

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Originally Posted by El Gran Pito

Ok, thanks. Is kinking usual in caramels? because I´ve never heard before about this problem.

regards

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Yes, from my understanding it happens more than a lot of people would like to see. I know that is why a lot of breeders stay away from Caramel projects.

kinking is a risk that I am willing to take. I will say this about genetic flaws if I ever do make any they will be culled. I know some people say just adopt it out, but I am sorry I do not want to even take the slightest chance that some idiot would breed it. I really do not see it any different then people breeding spider balls with the wobble. Some spiders have the wobble and some don't just have to weed through until you get the desired results without the genetic deformities.
My close friend that I got my caramel project from (Def. Hets) did not produce one kinked caramel with the three years of breeding (think he produced 7 caramels in that time). I know that both hets though were from seriously out crossed lines so I guess diversity is one key to the non-kinking. I will have to choose the caramel clown for mine. Not really because I am shooting for them in the future, but because I love the ones I have seen already over axanthic clowns.

I dont care for Axanthics all that much, i have yet to see a nice looking adult...


Id go with CarmClowns two beautiful morphs, and they will be much less common then Axanthic clowns.

(although... double ressesive morphs aren't common anyways) lol

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Originally Posted by Ga_herps

kinking is a risk that I am willing to take. I will say this about genetic flaws if I ever do make any they will be culled. I know some people say just adopt it out, but I am sorry I do not want to even take the slightest chance that some idiot would breed it. I really do not see it any different then people breeding spider balls with the wobble. Some spiders have the wobble and some don't just have to weed through until you get the desired results without the genetic deformities.
My close friend that I got my caramel project from (Def. Hets) did not produce one kinked caramel with the three years of breeding (think he produced 7 caramels in that time). I know that both hets though were from seriously out crossed lines so I guess diversity is one key to the non-kinking. I will have to choose the caramel clown for mine. Not really because I am shooting for them in the future, but because I love the ones I have seen already over axanthic clowns.

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All spiders and spider crosses wobble to varying degrees. It can't be bred out.

Sent from my HTC Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.

"Adult" Caramel color is second to none -- even Ultramels -- and of course, there is no disputing matters of opinion. ;)

I would submit that not all breeders working with Caramels are producing a significant percentage of kinked visuals. 40%-80% Caramel kinking is not a given. :D

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Originally Posted by Ga_herps

Some spiders have the wobble and some don't just have to weed through until you get the desired results without the genetic deformities.

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I agree with most of your post, but not this point. If you are looking for a spider that does not wobble you will never own one.

That is why I personally do not work with spiders at all. I think they are nice to look at, but being a leopard gecko breeder for years and going through the whole enigma BS I got tired of mass culling. I know my wording was a bit off since yes I do believe all spiders have a wobble at one point or another.

Im working on Caramel Clown right now, actually... Pastel Caramel Clown.. so thats my vote.. personally Axanthic does nothing for me :( boring morph imo.

VPI axanthics are gorgeous. Throw in the clown and....droool.

Carmel Spider Clown :D

I chose Caramel simply because I don't like Axanthic combo's but to be honest the caramels would have kinking so I would go for something different like Lavender Albino Clown or Ultramel Clown or Toffee Clown.

Hmmm... Well I'd have to agree with a lot of the posters that I wouldn't like the risk of deformed animals in the Caramel clutches. Personally I opted to make DH Axanthic Clowns about 3 years ago when I received a really nice Pastel Axanthic.

For all of you that don't see the attraction to Axanthics I urge you to give a good look at some of the nicer Pastel Axanthics! Think about the blushing on some of your Clowns and then the blushing on a Pastel Clown!

Make that snake in greyscale sounds like a killer idea to me! Maybe in a few years...

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Originally Posted by Emilio

Axanthic clown because I love axanthics but another good reason to pick axanthic is no kinking, imagine hitting the double homo caramel clown and it being severely kinked.:( I'd be devasted.

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This. Until and unless the problems with caramels are resolved I won't touch them. Anyway axanthiic is gorgeous-way to go!

I voted Axanthic. The kinking in the Caramels has made me delete them from my future plans. I'll just wait for Ultramels to come down a bit.

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic Exotic

I voted Axanthic. The kinking in the Caramels has made me delete them from my future plans. I'll just wait for Ultramels to come down a bit.

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i picked Axanthic for the same reason there is enough things that can go wrong already without have to worry about kinking. but if the choice was between axanthics and ulramels i would pick ultra's no question hands down.

I voted for caramel clown because i love caramel.

... but you can count my vote for axanthic clown if you'll call it a mime :P

i like the look of caramel clowns but do not use a caramel use an ultramel to steer away from kinking

Caramel clowns are gorgeous, they look like candy, and of course ultramel clowns would be even more beautiful imo. I voted axanthic because of the kinking in caramels, but details of what you are currently working with would help. If you are working with an adult female clown, I would get a male lav. albino or ultramel and do something that hasn't been done yet. If you have a male clown and are working with adult female caramels and axanthics, throw the clown at both of them.

Caramel Clown. Axanthic doesn't do much for me.

On the subject of kinking, not all caramels will kink. Look at Mark Mandic, and how many he has produced (1 of which I have,) 60+ (and probably more now, as that last count was from 1.5 years ago >.>) and no kinking.

i dont think axanthics are all that great most turn brown after a few months then the ones who stay a little more grey longer still arent that pretty they are only amazing as babies

The only axanthic cross I've seen that has my interest piqued is the lightning pied. (Axanthic Piebald)

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Originally Posted by python_addict

i dont think axanthics are all that great most turn brown after a few months then the ones who stay a little more grey longer still arent that pretty they are only amazing as babies

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Yeah but they sure look awesome
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/84b5c14b.jpg