Mystic X Lesser ?

So i couldn't seem to find a definitive answer on this. Mystic to lesser ?
Would it still make a potion or similar?
I know the similarities of the mystic and phantom. Someone said it would produce a BEL but the super form of a Phantom is not a BEL and no one has Mystic listed in their crosses to get leucistics.

i havent heard of this pairing, but i would bet my left hand it a lucy just like the karma

I was actually wondering the same thing a few days ago. I'm very surprised that someone hasn't bred those 2 morphs yet. Maybe its been done, just not publicized yet.

Yeah, well if everyones right and the mystic is essentially a phantom, the mystic to lesser will be leucistic. But one that will produce more mystics at least.

Yeah, the Phantom is a weird one in that the super isn't a BEL and when crossed with the Mojave it isn't a BEL. But the cross with the Lesser and Butter are a BEL.

until proven otherwise, mystic and phantom are the same morph, so mystic x lesser would be a BEL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hypnotic Exotic

Yeah, the Phantom is a weird one in that the super isn't a BEL and when crossed with the Mojave it isn't a BEL. But the cross with the Lesser and Butter are a BEL.

---

Actually this statement isn't really true.. A Mystic Potion is very much still a BEL it's just different looking in that it shows color and some pattern. It's genetically still very much a " BEL Super" form meaning it's an allele situation in that if a Potion is bred out to a Normal the results will yield an entire clutch on NON normals consisting of either Mojaves or Mystics. You cannot make more Potions by breeding to a Normal nor can you make Normals from Potion x Normal. But any cross with a Mystic and any of the other BEL members that lines of both traits in the same snake will produce a "Super" that's a BEL , just in some cases won't visually look white!

And yes Lesser x Mystic should be about identical to a Karma!
Wanted to clear this up as it needed to be addressed so others aren't confused!:)

Anthony McCain
McCain Reptiles

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by McCain

Actually this statement isn't really true.. A Mystic Potion is very much still a BEL it's just different looking in that it shows color and some pattern. It's genetically still very much a " BEL Super" form meaning it's an allele situation in that if a Potion is bred out to a Normal the results will yield an entire clutch on NON normals consisting of either Mojaves or Mystics. You cannot make more Potions by breeding to a Normal nor can you make Normals from Potion x Normal. But any cross with a Mystic and any of the other BEL members that lines of both traits in the same snake will produce a "Super" that's a BEL , just in some cases won't visually look white!

And yes Lesser x Mystic should be about identical to a Karma!
Wanted to clear this up as it needed to be addressed so others aren't confused!:)

Anthony McCain
McCain Reptiles

---

I see what your trying to say but i think it still needs some clarity

BEL = Blue Eye'd leucistic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Leucism is a condition characterized by reduced pigmentation in animals and humans. Unlike albinism, it is caused by a reduction in all types of skin pigment, not just melanin.

---

By definition, it is not leucistic by anymeans. Heck, super mojo shouldn't be called BEL. But its only called a BEL because of the trade name given to it. You can't call a potion BEL tho, its not leucistic and the hobby didn't give them that name like the super mojo.

But I see you were elaborating on the fact that mystic and mojo are on the same locus. so having both genes present is a homozygous mutation (aka super form). but what Hypnotic Exotic said is true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I see what your trying to say but i think it still needs some clarity

BEL = Blue Eye'd leucistic



By definition, it is not leucistic by anymeans. Heck, super mojo shouldn't be called BEL. But its only called a BEL because of the trade name given to it. You can't call a potion BEL tho, its not leucistic and the hobby didn't give them that name like the super mojo.

But I see you were elaborating on the fact that mystic and mojo are on the same locus. so having both genes present is a homozygous mutation (aka super form). but what Hypnotic Exotic said is true.

---

Reduction doesn't necessarily mean deletion. I don't think it'd be too far a stretch to say all of the homozygous or double mutant heterozygous members of the BEL complex have some sort of hypopigmentation going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Russ Lawson

Reduction doesn't necessarily mean deletion. I don't think it'd be too far a stretch to say all of the homozygous or double mutant heterozygous members of the BEL complex have some sort of hypopigmentation going on.

---

from what I understand, the reduction is refering to the "pied" effect, which is a form of lucy.

what the heck is a karma? pics please!

its a phantom x lesser, looks like a BEL

RDR made karma.. and this was a GREAT thread to read since I was just thinking of either getting a mystic or a phantom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Subdriven

RDR made karma.. and this was a GREAT thread to read since I was just thinking of either getting a mystic or a phantom.

---

i cannot find any pics of "Karma"?!? anyone got a link? i would really like to see it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merdcme

i cannot find any pics of "Karma"?!? anyone got a link? i would really like to see it

---

check rdr site, and it looks like a bel

Does anyone think its crazy that you can get a mystic for quiet a bit cheaper than a phantom in most cases!!! Ralphie is still selling his for 2k and up. I have seen mystics for 1k. And yes it would be a karma and it is a lucy. It's a BEL, but RDR has noted on a few of his, there is like a silverish appearence and a light pattern. But only in some cases. Pretty cool stuff. I want a phantom bee!

Has anybody done this yet? Is it the same as a karma?

I don't know but it's a very good question. I thought I read that there was a resurgence of the idea that phantom and mystic might be a little different after all and lesser X mystic (as well as phantom X mojave) would be good tests.

There have been several recent threads about what leucistic to get to have the best breeding potential and lesser + mystic might be it (presumably a nice white leucistic that could still produce mystic potions bred to a mojave gene ball).