Need some feeding advice

Hi! I got a baby pastel ball python about 4 weeks ago. And he has yet to eat for me. I know balls are notorious for being fussy but since he is so young I'm nervous about him not eating anything. I've tried mice (fuzzies and sm mice) and rat pups, all f/t. I've left him overnight with them in his cage and in a covered deli. I even tried to assist feed which I didn't really want to do but even so, he just sat there with it in his mouth for 10 mins and then spit it out. He's in a 10g. Temps are 92 on the hot side and 80-84 on the cool end. Humidity is anywhere from 45 to 70 depending on when I mist it or change the substrate. He on cypress mulch, two identical hides. I've got 3 sides and the top partly covered. I measure with an Acurite thermometer and have a uth with thermostat. I think I covered everything :) If not, let me know.

I'm just worried cause he is a pretty tiny guy. I'm pretty sure he's hungry bc he's cruisin the tank every night. According to the breeder, he was eating f/t (hopefully they were telling me the truth :rolleyes:) so I would really really not want to give live if possible. Thanks for any advice anyone could give me!

If he hasn't eaten in 4 weeks, he needs to eat. Some babies take f/t, some do not. Some will, then won't, then will again. I would offer a live rat pup. Also, not sure what size living quarters you have, but balls prefer small spaces. I usually start my babies out in shoeboxes. You may have to move him to something smaller to feed him, so he can't hide from the food. It's OK to leave a rat pup in overnight.

It sounds like you're doing everything right and that he's hungry. Maybe you just need to try pre-scenting the room to get him into feeding mode?

I usually do this by thawing out the prey and then warming it up with a hair dryer in the same room as the tank, because it really releases the scent well. My bp has never gone off feed, but ever since I started warming the mice up with the hair dryer, he goes berzerk about his food.

Let me know how he does!

You need to try live if blowdrying the f/t to heat it up doesn't work.

After maybe 5 live feeds you can try switching to f/t, but you don't want to starve babies, you can do that with an adult, force them to get hungry enough to try and take f/t, but this can be very bad with young snakes.

People say babies won't starve themselves, but they will if they do not see f/t as edible food.

Ok, well after the failed assist-feeding attempt I had left the rat pup in with him. I just blow dried the rat pup for 5 mins and put it and the bp in a small deli and wrapped that in a towel. All he did was strike at me/rat pup as I put it in the deli but I think it was a defensive strike :( How many days should I wait to offer food again if he doesn't take it tonight? Just my luck, he'll be a bp that insists on live food. That's the only thing I've ever dreaded with owning snakes lol

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

You need to try live if blowdrying the f/t to heat it up doesn't work.

After maybe 5 live feeds you can try switching to f/t, but you don't want to starve babies, you can do that with an adult, force them to get hungry enough to try and take f/t, but this can be very bad with young snakes.

People say babies won't starve themselves, but they will if they do not see f/t as edible food.

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That's what I'm nervous about. His hunger strike has gone on to long. My GB King has gone about 4 weeks without eating too but I'm not too concerned about her. She's not growing like a baby is. These snakes are going to give me an ulcer!

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Originally Posted by NYDragon

That's what I'm nervous about. His hunger strike has gone on to long. My GB King has gone about 4 weeks without eating too but I'm not too concerned about her. She's not growing like a baby is. These snakes are going to give me an ulcer!

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I have gotten some pretty stubborn snakes to eat. I think one of your problems might be that you move him to eat. First you handle him by putting him in a deli cup, then you are sticking the food item with him, where he knows he cannot get away from it, if need be.

Basically he is stressed and doesn't feel safe. He will not eat unless he feels safe, I've always found that to be a big factor.

I would leave him alone for a few days, no trying to feed, esp. not assist feed. After that wait for a time when he is in his hide, in the evening before he starts cruising. Then put a live rat fuzzy or pup in the opening of his hide and LEAVE. Let him find his food and eat where he feels safe. Make sure there are no distractions.

About not wanting to feed live, I understand. But right now its about the snake, you got him and you are responsible for him. You have to do what is right for him, he can't do it for himself. Hopefully, once he is eating well, you can work on switching him back to F/T.

Good luck !

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Put a live rat fuzzy or pup in the opening of his hide and LEAVE. Let him find his food and eat where he feels safe. Make sure there are no distractions.

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I did try this also but with a f/t and a prekilled (and a bloody prekilled at that). I left it there overnight with him again. He just pushes it out of the way and then goes to cruisin around :rolleyes: I wake up in the morning just to find the rat pushed to the side of the hide a bit.

I will feed live if I have to. I wouldn't let him suffer, trust me :) I just thought I would go through all the tricks first before I went to live. I just hope that if I give him a live rat pup he eats it. For his sake and mine :rolleyes: I had to have the guys at the store kill the rat pups for me. Not easy being a vegetarian snake owner but I'll do what I have to lol

The problem with that is that such small food items pre-killed or frozen thawed, cool VERY quickly. And if you heat them up to hot, well, its a problem too.
Unless he takes them pretty much immediately, they will be cold within minutes.

Try live for now, then you can work your way up to FT ;)

a hatchling that strikes usually eats. and I never had a snake that strikes not eat. the ones that shy away are the ones hard sometimes to get started. get him to eat live for you first after your snake ate 3 times, then give him a freshly killed rodent that he ate 3 times live. this is a step between live and f/t. after he ate them a few times, move on to f/t. you might have to use tweeters and do the mouse dance. when snakes eat they look for movement, smell, and heat from the rodent. some snakes don't require all 3. also a 10 gallon tank is pretty big, when most breeders keep them in 6 qt tubs. I would go to walmart, by a 6 qt sterilite shoe box they are 94 cents. place a few air holes in it, paper towel and a water bowl in it. place the tub 1/3 on the heat, then you need to recheck heat in 6 qt tub. place snake and lid on the tub. offer live every 3 days. good luck don

Do not assist, assist feeding should be done as a last resort and you are not there yet.

I would put him in a 6 quarts tub, on aspen, give him a week with NO handling than offer food (live hopper mouse)

While 10 gallons tanks work for some animals with others it doesn't and since your priority is to get this animal to eat my suggestion would be to get this animal in a setup that is as close to what the breeder setup was, the aspen will also help with security.

Than once he eats with consistency if you want to move him back to his 10 gallons tank do so.

As for feeding f/t try converting him after he eats with consistency, well established animals with a strong feeding response are easier to switch.

How would I heat a 6 qt? I only have a uth and I thought they weren't to be used on plastic. And I don't have a way of getting heat tape right now. Is it the height of the 10g that would be causing a problem? I think I do have a 6qt though from when I traveled with the menagerie from NY to FL a few months ago.

I've had problem feeders before especially with the baby hognose and sand boa but this guy is really making me work. I wasn't sure if assist feeding was a good idea but I was getting nervous. Of course, in hindsight it probably just caused him to be more stressed. He's been a jumpy snake from the very beginning. The minute food is presented he throws himself in a ball :rolleyes:

You can put the UTH in a hand towel, just fold the hand towel in half and slide the UTH inside. ALso, I have a baby normal ball right now that balls up when his rat pup is put into his hide.....however, I just leave it in his hide and turn out the lights. In half an hour it is gone.

You could try this:

Try the blowdrying trick again, but place the mouse in a small carboard box or something similar while blow drying. Once you're done, take the mouse out and put the snake in. The box should smell like the mouse to the snake at this point. Let is sit there for a little while, then introduce the mouse. Dangle it a little but not in it's face(give it about a 3-4 inches) and then begin moving it away like the mouse is trying to run. Sometime the thought of food getting away will trigger an attack.

Using the cardboard box may be a bit more representative of a mouse nest, especially if the sent is everywhere.

Ok, never ending problems. I'm planning on giving him a rat pup this weekend (no one around me has any until then). But I just noticed that my hognose has mites since cleaning and changing the substrate :( So I'm going to treat everyone just in case. Should I try and feed the bp first and then treat him or treat then try and feed? I was going to start the overhaul tonight (when its not sweltering outside).

Well, I've never had to treat a snake for mites, but my guess is that it would put the snake under more stress, which is pretty counter productive to getting a snake to eat for the first time.

Then again, if he does eat, you'll risk regurgitation during the treatment if you stress him out too much as well.

Personally, I'd focus more on trying to get him to eat, and if he eats, let it settle before you treat(just because it's been a while since feeding). If he has mites, an extra day for the food to settle isn't the end of the world.

can you get asf rat pups.

also if he use to eat f/t talk to the breeder maybe he use to make the f/t move around with forceps or something and could of possibly only feed at night or first thing in the morning.

if he had a good feeding response when you got him (if the breeder wasn't lying) i don't think you putting it in a 10 gallon would stress it out that much well that and maybe if you hold it very often. in my opinion a baby snake shouldn't be handled till they get around a year old just to make sure they stay as stress free as can be. it aint in a snakes nature to be handled so any handling stresses them some more so then others but it stresses them all none the less

here's what i would do put even if just paper towels around outside of 10 gallon tank so your snake can't see you at all (this in itself will take loads of stress away from your baby(babies to me seem to have the mind set if i don't eat it it's going to eat me. so your baby knows for a fact he can't eat you but seeing you all the time makes him think you could eat him even if you won't) my 2 baby balls go nuts when i enter the room they are in they stop what ever they are doing and get ready to strike which to me means there instincts are telling them don't move or you could get eaten.(my green tree pythons use to be the same way) left them alone for biggest part of a year only opened there cage to feed and water and clean (got struck at more times then can count now since they aint been touched while considered a neo till a month or so ago) they know aint going to hurt them in fact one that i dubbed monster cause how nuts she would go when with-in 5 foot of her cage will let me hold her now. and all that cause i didn't try to push them into being held i let them get use to me being around on a regular basis. people say snakes aint that smart and that may be true or not but they do recognize scent of people and can tell the difference from 1 person to another so once your snake learns your scent and that you aint going to hurt them. which time it takes for that to happen depends on the snake some (I've caught wild snakes held them for 10 minutes then put them in a cage go back later to check on them and they don't try to bite. while I've had others for years and never calmed down enough to be held with-out getting bitten 4 or 5 times in a minute (one of these was a female ball python i use to have meanest snake i ever had she would go nuts if you touched her she'd give you 1 warning hiss then shortly there after she'd start striking)

I'll wager if you first off get rid of the bedding (bedding hides pests and pests cause stress) second cover the tank even if just get a bird cage cover and put over it. and no handling till snake eats regularly for a couple months

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Originally Posted by ice#1

in my opinion a baby snake shouldn't be handled till they get around a year old just to make sure they stay as stress free as can be. it aint in a snakes nature to be handled so any handling stresses them some more so then others but it stresses them all none the less

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Are you kidding?
Baby snakes LOVE to be held, if you set them up in a good environment, feed it appropriate sized meals, and not over handle at inappropriate times.
I try not to handle my babies any more than I have to until they eat 3-4 meals then I handle them all the time and most all of them love the attention.
My year old snakes have been handled and photographed extensively over their first year and are the sweetest snakes you could own.
I'd venture to say you'd have an extremely shy snake if you didn't handle it much it's first year :confused:

To OP: I'd feed before treating, and snakes don't regurge because you treat them.

I got two really small rat pups at the store today. That's all they had until later and I couldn't go back bc I live an hour from them. I put the brown bag with them in it into his cage and left it there. I just had to go back in the room and peeked through the little opening to his cage. He's up in the foliage and the rat pups moved into the hide. Should I stick him and the rat pups in the brown bag and close it and leave them there overnight? I don't want him to panic in there overnight and regurge if he actually does eat (that has happened to me before). Thanks!

I think the best advice that you have gotten has come from Deborah. I would definitely follow her advice. You need to stop constantly trying to feed that baby, you are just stressing him out. Set him up in a tub like was suggested and leave him alone for a week. I'm not saying that everyone else didn't give good advice but I have had problems in the past with snake's going off feed and Deb gave me some great advice once.

I agree with Deb and Python 1024...set him up right, and leave him alone. With my babies, if they don't eat this week, they just have to wait until next feed, which is 5 days.

Well, its been four days and the only reason I didn't wait until tomorrow was bc I had to get to the store to get Provent-A-Mite for my other guys (I think it was the stinkin new substrate). The place is an hour away :( I didn't set him up in a tub bc I don't have money for a new heating device. I just lost my job and am barely making ends meet. I'm trying the best I can. I have left him alone since Monday, only going by his enclosure to water the other guys. The ten gallon is covered on all 4 sides and a towel over most of the top. After she told me about the tub I covered the fourth side hoping that would help him feel more secure. But even so, he hangs out in his hides for most of the day and around 5pm or so, he'll start moving around and climbing foliage. The live rat pup made its way into his hide when I had peeked in. He just wants nothing to do with it. It's been 5 weeks now. The guys at the store said to put him in a brown bag with the rat pup overnight but I don't want to freak him out by being stuck in there all night.