I need big time help... assist feeding failure. twice.

I have this snake that detached from his yolk on July 29. He was 45grams when he left the egg and his unabsorbed yolk.

He has refused all meals given to him (every 4-5 days since August 10). We assist fed last Monday after he refused... again... the rat we put in his enclosure overnight. No dice. He spit it back out.

We assist fed again today after putting another rat in his enclosure overnight, still no dice. He sat with the rat in his mouth for close to 30 minutes then finally got his tail curled around the rat and pulled it out.

He is now 39 grams. Now what? He shed for the first time last weekend (either Saturday or Sunday).

I'm in hopeless mode right now. I have consulted the vet. He doesn't do assist feeding. He only does the "force feeding" - put a tube down his throat and pour some snake formula or something down it. So... what would you guys do in this situation?

I came across this on you tube, I'm having the same issues with my 2 babies also hope this helps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVi404rjxwQ

I've done force feeding to my babies just 4 weeks ago... I did it to one particular baby which refuse assist feeding. After doing it, I've gain a lot of confident and I think it is not as bad as I thought it would be...

The key is to push slowly down the throat and after that massage the pinky down. I did it twice and fortunately the baby has become a great eater now... She already ate 6 times on her own and quickly gaining weight.

Use a small mouse hopper and push it down onto his throat a little. Make it so pretty much just the back legs are sticking out of his mouth. Before you put the snake back down push the snakes jaws together a little and tug on the mouses tail. That will get it locked into the teeth and make it really hard for him to spit it out. You can also try just holding him like that for a minute or so. I think holding them with there mouth clamped down for a little while helps get them past the point where they are trying to spit it out. Good luck. You should have success if you follow the steps. I have never had one that didn't swallow it by the second attempt.

Try assist feeding a few more times. I had a female pastel this year that I had to try 5 or 6 different attempts before she took it. Now she is eating on her own. At least with the snakes I've had to assist it seems like it gets a little less stressful for the snake each time. I think the stress is the reason they are spitting it out. I also hold the snake for several seconds after I put the mouse in there mouth so they will calm down before I put them down. I have had a couple eat in my hands because they started swallowing right away and I was scared if I moved them to much they would spit it out. Keep at it. It's so worth it when you see a thriving little snake that you know you brought back from near death.

We decided to go ahead and push the pinky gently down his throat and massage all the way to his belly. He is noticeably getting weak and at 39grams is skin and bones. And the vet is not open until Tuesday. He is resting now with a pinky in his belly. Hope he makes it!

We will try overnight, then assist in 5 days. We won't do the force one anymore. We will have the vet do it if assist feeding fails again two times. Thanks everyone!

Have you been trying to feed rat pinkies? If so that could be your problem. Mouse hoppers work much better for getting them to eat. I also think mouse hoppers are easier to assist feed because it is harder for them to spit them out.

just a point to consider... in this situation the vet won't be able to do anything for you that you can't do yourself. There are many threads on this exact subject... read them and you will probably have more ball python hatching specific knowledge then the vet. (I know the vet you are talking about, and trust me what I am saying is very true)

Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

just a point to consider... in this situation the vet won't be able to do anything for you that you can't do yourself. There are many threads on this exact subject... read them and you will probably have more ball python hatching specific knowledge then the vet. (I know the vet you are talking about, and trust me what I am saying is very true)

Mike

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Thanks for the tip, Mike! Yeah, I was kinda worried about that "snake formula" thing.

Amazingly, he is more alert now 3 days after one forced feeding. He has not moved from his hot-side hide (that I noticed) but when we lift the hide, his head comes up into an s-coil. He hasn't done that in a while. Hope he eats in 2 days! Grrrr!

Hey Mike, I don't know how to sex these guys! The vet charges 20 bucks per snake - just to determine gender. That doesn't include anything else - no "well check" or anything else.

Tim wrote an excellent how to http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...g-Instructions

Before you attempt this what do you have this baby house in and what substrate do you use?

And I agree rats could be the issue, some hatchling will not take rats at first.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Tim wrote an excellent how to http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...g-Instructions

Before you attempt this what do you have this baby house in and what substrate do you use?

And I agree rats could be the issue, some hatchling will not take rats at first.

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He is in a 4L RUB with 2 hides and aspen substrate. We tried mouse. No dice. Yeah, we've watched all the videos we could get our hands on. Some were better than others. Chewy made it look so easy. There's also a thread here (can't find it now) that has step-by-step instructions on assist feeding. No dice. What really got me so frustrated is we did the "give the rat a tug to get it stuck in his teeth" trick so he wouldn't spit it out. He stayed like that for about 30 minutes and finally managed to get his tail wrapped around the rat and he pulled it out!

Just an update on this wee one. He survived the force feeding. Then we were able to get him to assist feed 5 days later. Still on smaller prey size than what we normally fed to his "clutchmates".

He is back to 47grams today and is back to his nippy self. He'll strike, he just won't grab and coil. It's all defense striking. We left another rat overnight last night and he didn't take it, so we're doing another assist-feeding thing today. Man, this guy is a slow learner!

His brother and sister are 104 grams and 95 grams now!

Have you tried feeding a live mouse yet?

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Originally Posted by J.Vandegrift

Have you tried feeding a live mouse yet?

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Yep!

We tried white mouse, cream-colored ASF rat and black-colored ASF rat of different sizes hopper and smaller, and a rat pup, in the RUB, in a deli cup, in a completely dark cardboard shoebox. No dice.

No, we didn't try braining. None of us were willing to do it.

He assist-fed again today. At least it is easier now - he doesn't try to spit the rat out anymore.

I have heard that scenting the feeder with tuna (juice/oil from the can) can help...? I've never tried it so I don't know, but it's another thing to try on a stubborn starter. Hope he figures it out soon!

done assist and force feeds this year I always useda little smaller prey item and wet it. then work it down. I also useda pair of medical forceceps. to hold and push the prey back. I have to resort to it agai nthis week I afraid cause the little one ( 3 of them ) don't want ot take ft which is all I got access too right now as every rodent supply place does not have any live just frozen in the size I need.

Grats Anatess. It sounds like things are looking up for your little guy. I am glad he is making a turn around. Keep up the persistence, and you guys will win. In about 4 months, you'll never be able to tell he was a problem child.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Grats Anatess. It sounds like things are looking up for your little guy. I am glad he is making a turn around. Keep up the persistence, and you guys will win. In about 4 months, you'll never be able to tell he was a problem child.

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THANK YOU SO MUCH for this post! I know right now it's hard to imagine him right now finally eating normally. I have to be optimistic!

Any updates on the little guy? I think it's just fantastic that you're doing all this to help him!! Keep up the good work, and I'm sure things will work out for him. :) You can do it (and so can he!)