I'm pretty disappointed with my BPs thus far

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Originally Posted by Post from another forum

Tried feeding the male BP, Apotos and Daemon just now. Apotos was happy to much away on some rat legs (I have no small ones, and she doesn't seem to be growing or digesting mice well anymore), and Daemon seemed interested, but he just constricted everything he could. And then the BP. He wasn't interested, so I left the rat with him for about ten minutes then moved him back into his tub. I tried feeding the female, and she wasn't interested. Hmm. So I heated the rat a bit and tried offering it to the male again on my bed (rather than the box the female was periscoping in) and he wasn't interested.

I don't know what happened before this, but I went to place the rat back under the heat lamp and get it HOT, and the male struck at my hand that I wasn't moving. So I've got blood pouring out of wounds on three fingers, and I see he's so bite-happy he fell off the bed, three feet to the ground. Meh, landed on a pile a clothes, so that was okay, but then he's HISSING and in the S-curve and got 1/4 his body off the ground (having the head and neck off the ground is the S-curve strike pose, not just curved into an S). Well, I'm contemplating what to do, and the female decides she wants to explore, and as BPs aren't climbers, she falls off about a foot away from the male. He's more interested in me, so she rights herself and is on her way. So, I toss a shirt onto the male and put the female back in the box, then notice the male isn't calming with his head covered. Didn't have much choice but to grab right behind his head HARD so he didn't bite me while I put him away.

God... and BPs are lazy and non-bitey? I'm going to inquire about this on the BP.net forums. This doesn't feel right.

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This is partially just a rant, but from what I've read, BPs are supposed to be lazy, and obviously not very bitey. The guy I got the pair and Daemon the rat snake from is apparently having some problems I knew not of before described as hoarding and having the inability to care for them, but he's not shipping/selling animals that aren't well enough for it. He's also had his internet shut off for an unknown time, so contacting him isn't likely to happen.

I've had the pair for about two weeks, and their husbandry is all right except for being in slightly smaller tubs than normal until I see a normal pattern in their behavior, feeding, ect. The female ate a small rat for me last week and a hopper mouse. Both showed some interest in the rat and hopper mice I was offering, but didn't strike or get very close. Both have been feeding on f/t rats and the female took f/t from me.

The female is also ridiculously jumpy with things around her head. If she's just been placed back in her tub, she'll be bumping into the sides and jerking her head back. I don't think that's normal.

Any ideas? I figure it's possible no one's hungry, but feeding isn't my only problem, considering it's been at least half an hour and my hand is still burning and throbbing.

??? How long have you had them? How old are they? What is your set up?

Two weeks (with one week resting), 4 years, tubs and heat tape.


Another thing is the two tubes are right next to each other, so I'm wondering if the male could be smelling the female. :confuzd:

Your story is a little hard to follow.

Regardless, I'll comment on how I interpret what you've explained.

They sound like they're not accustomed to their new home and should be left alone to calm down and settle in.

You should be feeding them in some sort of containment, not out in the open. If they're flying off your bed like you say, you don't have them in a proper feeding situation. You also sound like you have all the snakes out at once and are trying to feed them together. Keep them isolated and do one at a time to make it easier. Lastly, it sounds like you weren't using forceps to handle your rats. If you were, I'm not really sure how you managed to get your hand by it's face.

Ball pythons are very GENERALLY docile and won't bite. However, anything will bite if it's stressed enough.

My advice is to give the snakes more time to settle in and also be more careful with your feeding attempts. If your hands smell like rodent, or if you dangle your hand in front of the snake when the room smells like prey, I'm hard pressed to blame the snake.

All snakes get fed in two spare boxes, though I am tempted to try feeding the BPs in their tubs. Both are shoe box size (literally what you buy shoes in, not the plastic tubs). So with only two boxes, I only had the BPs out. I also don't feed more than one at a time unless someone's being slow (usually one of my corns).

I use these to handle rodents except for when I'm getting them out of the bag to thaw, but I'm anal about getting sick, so I know I washed my hands after that.

And that's what's odd. The first time the male bit me, I was lightly petting him to let him know I was there and going to pick him up, and when he turned around he was right against my finger. However, this time, I'm sure my hand was no closer than 6 inches. I couldn't smell any rat or mousey scent on either hands before I cleaned up, but even if there was a scent that the BP could smell, why would he go after my hand and not the rat? I did have the rodents out thawing for about 30 minutes before feeding, so that might have been it, but I'm not sure.

I'll give them some more settling time and see if that helps. I figured 7-10 days would be enough, but I guess not. This is just coming across as weird to me.

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Originally Posted by Shenzi Sixaxis

All snakes get fed in two spare boxes, though I am tempted to try feeding the BPs in their tubs. Both are shoe box size (literally what you buy shoes in, not the plastic tubs). So with only two boxes, I only had the BPs out. I also don't feed more than one at a time unless someone's being slow (usually one of my corns).

I use these to handle rodents except for when I'm getting them out of the bag to thaw, but I'm anal about getting sick, so I know I washed my hands after that.

And that's what's odd. The first time the male bit me, I was lightly petting him to let him know I was there and going to pick him up, and when he turned around he was right against my finger. However, this time, I'm sure my hand was no closer than 6 inches. I couldn't smell any rat or mousey scent on either hands before I cleaned up, but even if there was a scent that the BP could smell, why would he go after my hand and not the rat? I did have the rodents out thawing for about 30 minutes before feeding, so that might have been it, but I'm not sure.

I'll give them some more settling time and see if that helps. I figured 7-10 days would be enough, but I guess not. This is just coming across as weird to me.

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Because your hand was giving off the better heat signature, near enough to the rat, that it made perfect sense to your boy that you were more likely the warm intended meal, not the cold lump that smelled like a rat.

There's no need to feed them in separate enclosures from where they are housed. I only have one that I feed f/t to (all my others get live). All are fed in their enclosures, and I've never been mistaken for a rat or been bitten on days that weren't feeding day (ie, they are not cage aggressive as a result of feeding in their enclosure). The one boy that feeds f/t takes it off the tongs. I can tell if I don't have it properly heated, because I see him zoning in on my hand, well PAST where the rat is just in front of his face. So I will gently close up his tub and make sure I touch the nose of the rodent to a heat lamp to really get a good heat signature going on the rat.

It sounds like most of your issues are a result of your inexperience with ball pythons and some mistakes that you made (and we all make mistakes when we're first starting out - it's how we learn).

Don't bother to try to feed either one of them again until next week - no need to stress them or yourself out so soon after the last feeding adventure.

Wait a week and try feeding in their own home enclosures - they have the safety and security of their hides, and you don't have to move a prey driven snake still in feed mode.

How can they have good humidity in a cardboard shoe box?
I suggest plastic tubs, they cost about $2.00 each for locking sterilite :confused:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

How can they have good humidity in a cardboard shoe box?
I suggest plastic tubs, they cost about $2.00 each for locking sterilite :confused:

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Pretty sure the cardboard was for feeding only.

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Everything you have described is normal. Really, the problem is just that you aren't used to these animals yet, and you haven't learned to read their body language or understand their behavior.

1) hatchling ball pythons are jumpy, snappy, flighty little things. They calm down after they are several months old, more or less. They'll have their 'adult personalties' when they're about 2 years old.

2) Ball pythons track prey by scent, heat signature, and movement. Their eyesight is bad.

3) Ball pythons are very shy animals, and tend not to want to eat if they do not feel fully secure. So, feeding inside the enclosure is recommended for this species.

4) They don't like to be 'petted', and most of them are pretty head-shy.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Pretty sure the cardboard was for feeding only.

Sent from my HTC Incredible using Tapatalk.

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ty, should have finished my first cup of coffee before reading that :P

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Everything you have described is normal. Really, the problem is just that you aren't used to these animals yet, and you haven't learned to read their body language or understand their behavior.

1) hatchling ball pythons are jumpy, snappy, flighty little things. They calm down after they are several months old, more or less. They'll have their 'adult personalties' when they're about 2 years old.

2) Ball pythons track prey by scent, heat signature, and movement. Their eyesight is bad.

3) Ball pythons are very shy animals, and tend not to want to eat if they do not feel fully secure. So, feeding inside the enclosure is recommended for this species.

4) They don't like to be 'petted', and most of them are pretty head-shy.

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These aren't hatchlings. They are 4 years old.

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I am a member of the other forum that this was posted at. They have a strong belief that feeding in the tank causes cage aggression.

On that same note, I still choose to feed outside of their enclosure. It's what I'm use to and I have never had a snake refuse a meal or regurgitate. I only have four though, so it's not much of a hassle at all. If I had a larger collection, I doubt I'd continue the practice.


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I'd say most of the problem is your lack of experience and their stress.

I don't know what the circumstances were before they came to you, but it can take a while for snakes to get used to a new environment. I don't recommend trying to feed them in feeding boxes, it isn't necessary, and right now it sounds like it's causing you more problems than it is helping.

Give them both another week, and then when you get ready to feed them, make sure once the rat is thawed out, warm it up all over with a hair dryer for about 15 seconds, then grip the rats back end or tail with tongs and heat just the head for about 10 seconds. Give them a really clear heat signature to lock onto.

Being headshy is completely normal for a snake, since that is where a predator would grab them to disable them. A few of mine are extremely headshy, and I just understand that and respect it. I don't move anything quickly near their heads, and I refrain from touching their bodies too close to the head.

When your male fell, it undoubtedly scared him to death, which is why he was hissing and threatening so much. He probably had no idea what had just happened, and so he was trying to defend himself against a perceived threat.

Right now, you all just need some time to get used to each other. Take things slowly, go one day at a time, and they'll come around I'd bet.

Gale

My boyfriend and I have 11 snakes and the only ones that we have taken out of their tank to feed are the ones that we have in with another snake. We feed most everyone in their tanks, but we do typically take their hides out so the rat can't run in there and hide (we live feed). Once the rat is eaten, we put the hide back in and they go chill for a few days. :)

I agree that they might just be stressed out. Keep in mind that BP can actually go off feed for a few months and not be affected. Give them some time to relax and try again.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

It sounds like most of your issues are a result of your inexperience with ball pythons and some mistakes that you made (and we all make mistakes when we're first starting out - it's how we learn).

Don't bother to try to feed either one of them again until next week - no need to stress them or yourself out so soon after the last feeding adventure.

Wait a week and try feeding in their own home enclosures - they have the safety and security of their hides, and you don't have to move a prey driven snake still in feed mode.

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Most likely. :rolleyes: Books and articles only help so much.

That's what I plan on doing, as well as adjusting a drape I have over the closet to give them a bit more dark.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

How can they have good humidity in a cardboard shoe box?
I suggest plastic tubs, they cost about $2.00 each for locking sterilite :confused:

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I don't think 4 year olds would fit in there. :P I just feed them in there.
And actually, plastic shoe boxes are 97 cents or six for five dollars here.

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Originally Posted by jfreels

I am a member of the other forum that this was posted at. They have a strong belief that feeding in the tank causes cage aggression.

On that same note, I still choose to feed outside of their enclosure. It's what I'm use to and I have never had a snake refuse a meal or regurgitate. I only have four though, so it's not much of a hassle at all. If I had a larger collection, I doubt I'd continue the practice.


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Not so much for me. It's a real possibility, but feeding outside allows me to observe and there's no chance of substrate ingestion. Even if it's a little bit, you don't know how a snake will react to it.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I'd say most of the problem is your lack of experience and their stress.

I don't know what the circumstances were before they came to you, but it can take a while for snakes to get used to a new environment. I don't recommend trying to feed them in feeding boxes, it isn't necessary, and right now it sounds like it's causing you more problems than it is helping.

Give them both another week, and then when you get ready to feed them, make sure once the rat is thawed out, warm it up all over with a hair dryer for about 15 seconds, then grip the rats back end or tail with tongs and heat just the head for about 10 seconds. Give them a really clear heat signature to lock onto.

Being headshy is completely normal for a snake, since that is where a predator would grab them to disable them. A few of mine are extremely headshy, and I just understand that and respect it. I don't move anything quickly near their heads, and I refrain from touching their bodies too close to the head.

When your male fell, it undoubtedly scared him to death, which is why he was hissing and threatening so much. He probably had no idea what had just happened, and so he was trying to defend himself against a perceived threat.

Right now, you all just need some time to get used to each other. Take things slowly, go one day at a time, and they'll come around I'd bet.

Gale

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That sounds pretty good to me, though I'll likely use hot water for heating. Just what I'm used to, plus the water boiler boils water in about 30 seconds. xD

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Originally Posted by BLMinFL

My boyfriend and I have 11 snakes and the only ones that we have taken out of their tank to feed are the ones that we have in with another snake. We feed most everyone in their tanks, but we do typically take their hides out so the rat can't run in there and hide (we live feed). Once the rat is eaten, we put the hide back in and they go chill for a few days. :)

I agree that they might just be stressed out. Keep in mind that BP can actually go off feed for a few months and not be affected. Give them some time to relax and try again.

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Interesting. You keeping BPs together? I'd like to know how that's working. :P Over on CS.com, you mention you keep snakes together and it's pretty much "don't do it or gtfo off these forums".

That's another thing I was thinking. I remember reading a post here that someone's new BP hasn't eaten in the 1-3 months (can't remember how long) they've had it. These two are at a good weight though, so no worries about that.

i prefer to give any new snakes in my collection at least a month to settle in before handling (i just feed them and change there water out till the month is up)

Makes sense, considering BP's are one of the shier species.

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Originally Posted by jfreels

I am a member of the other forum that this was posted at. They have a strong belief that feeding in the tank causes cage aggression.

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Really? I would think you would get enough people together, that myth would be found not true lol.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Really? I would think you would get enough people together, that myth would be found not true lol.

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I believed it too, until I joined here and RTB.net. Even though I still feed outside of the enclosure :oops:

Their stance is that they could ingest loose substrate which will cause impaction and kill the snake. I also do remember people saying it caused cage aggression too. My wife remembered reading that too.

If a ball python can digest an entire rodent, they can digest a bit of substrate.

Do you think somebody comes along in Africa and digs them out of their cozy little holes once a week to put them into a nice clean box just to feed them? Clearly, no. They ingest all kinds of things along with their meal, and since bones aren't a problem for them I doubt much is. As for the homing more than one together, she may not have meant ball pythons. Some snakes do perfectly well together, for instance my green snakes and garter snakes do just fine. However, For several months I had my three male BPs together, so I did feed them separately then. With enough hides and precautions it can be manageable, but there is still risks, although it's definitely not a life or death situation that some make it out to be. After I switched to a rack system I fed them in their tubs, and it's made no difference, except in that many times I have to let them know it's not feeding time before I grab them.

None of this stuff needs to be said on this forum :P;)

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Originally Posted by jfreels

I believed it too, until I joined here and RTB.net. Even though I still feed outside of the enclosure :oops:

Their stance is that they could ingest loose substrate which will cause impaction and kill the snake. I also do remember people saying it caused cage aggression too. My wife remembered reading that too.

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what forum is this? I think I wanna join it for some fun.

last time I went forum trolling, it was the flat earth society, forum for people believe there is a NASA conspiracy and the world is really a flat disk, not round. yea that was awesome.