Just acquired a rat mualed BP last night - Advice pls!

Hi all, I am new to the forum and to reptiles. So, HI lol and some background (sorry kinda long): I've been interested in herps (and all animals in general) since I was a kid, but was never allowed to own much more than a newt, cats and dogs. I'm now 35 with a renewed interest and had been planning on adopting a snake within the next year after my husband finishes school, gets a job…blah blah. Anyway, I have recently began a second job at my local pet store which has only added more fuel to my fire of wanting a snake. So, understand that my snake/herp knowledge is very rudimentary as I've only really been researching for a couple weeks.

Snake acquisition: I use craigslist quite a bit to sell things I no longer need. I also use it to judge my local "economy" for pricing things I may buy or sell. Well, I went snake price shopping and found someone trading their ball python for a stereo (which I happened to have for sale). Long story short, I had talked to some people who were very interested in purchasing the snake, and I want the enclosure for my future snake. My possible buyer was aware that this snake may possibly need to be rehabbed temperament wise. The snake's story as told by the previous owners: The got the snake from a guy who handled it as if it were a wild poisonous snake...new owner stated that the snake bit him once when he first got it, but became friendlier as he handled it more. He said that after a while, their 10 year old daughter handled her with ease. But with busy schedules came loss of interest and the snake hadn't been handled for about two years. They blew up their stereo, needed a new one so decided to trade the snake. I get there and the house is a loud frenzy of people and pets. The snake is in an enclosure, made from a modified desk and has the spatial volume of a 65 gallon aquarium. The snake was understandably tightly balled around a branch. It was kind of dark and smoky, so I couldn't see a whole lot, not to mention we just wanted to leave because it wasn't the nicest neighborhood. lol Previous owner stated they fed live, medium rats on the 10th of every month. They were also told that the snake was female. From the storyline, the snake is about 3-4 years old and appears to be 3'-ish. Transport of the snake consisted of moving the enclosure to the bed of our truck.

The reveal: We get the snake home and place her in a cleared, quiet spot in our garage. We are planning to keep her in the garage for awhile because it's quieter with a more stable temperature and humidity. In the light, I immediately notice a dried wound on her back and I could see what appeared to be muscle fibers (the hole is the size of my pinky finger tip). After a few hours of fresh air and solitude, we saw the ball loosen and her head appeared. I saw her mangle face and my heart sank :tears:. I felt so bad for her. Her lip on one side was raised from swelling and pinked with inflammation. A rat sized bite wound now clearly visible. As the night went on, she loosened more and more and just laid there, mouth slightly open. I put fresh water in her enclosure, wet the tip of my fingers and lightly stroked her. She tensed, but made no move to strike or hiss. This morning, much of the redness was gone, swelling seemed to have lessened and she was quite a bit more active and stretching out to test the new air coming in from the door. I gently stroked her for a couple minutes and cradled a coil to get her use to human touch again. The closer I stroke towards her head, she just moves away. She doen't seem to be agressive, but given her condition, how much should I try to handle her? My intended goal is to get her out and to a vet to avoid a resp infection or treat it if she has one. In short, though I was intending on selling her and getting a different kind of snake, I'm thinking about keeping her. :)

On a side note, do both sexes have spurs?

Poor baby :tears: Good thing you brought her home. I don't know much about rehabilitating snakes, but yes, both sexes have spurs. Good luck with her, I hope she turns out alright. I would probably bring her to a vet and handle her as little as possible.

if she will let you get close enough, get some neosporin on her. Give her about a week before you try to handle her just to get used to being someplace new. Even though she is in her same tank, its still different smells.

I would recommend taking her to a good herp vet, not for the potential of a RI, but because the inflammation on her face could be because of a growing abscess.

Be prepared that she might be tank shy with her food for a while too. Basically it sounds like the people who owned her before were irresponsible and left a live rat in there when she didn't want to eat.

Let us know how she is doing!! Good luck

Tank shy with her food? Sorry to bee such a n00b, but I want to make sure I get it right....I think she's been through enough already. ;)

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Originally Posted by sisble50

Tank shy with her food? Sorry to bee such a n00b, but I want to make sure I get it right....I think she's been through enough already. ;)

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Basically she might not want to eat and try to get away from the rat if you try to feed her. its not always the case, but its a possibility.

Welcome to BP.net, make a vet apt. to get a complete checkup to rule out mouth rot, RI, parasites etc., check for mites and treat with Provent-A-Mite (available on line).

If her mouth is agape, it could be something more serious than even a wound, so you should probably plan a vet visit so it can be checked out. It'd be a pity if she had a broken jaw or something. If you can take some pics, people might be able to tell you a bit more, but a vet is usually the best thing.

The bite on the back could have debris stuck to the wound, rather than have muscle fibers sticking out. Again, easier to tell with a pic. You could soak it with a warm wet cloth, so not to stress her by soaking her completely. Just wet a washcloth with warm water and lay it over her, see if she'll sit still long enough to be able to clean it off.

Neosporin WITHOUT PAIN RELIEF can be applied to minor wounds. The mouth gape could be the injury, a more serious injury like a broken jaw, just a misaligned jaw, or RI. Once you know for certain, you can have treatment lined up. Keeping where it's quieter is a good idea.

When you do get to the point of feeding her, I'd reccomend starting with smaller prey, like rat pups or slightly larger, so she won't feel threatened by it. You can always up the prey size if she doesn't have issues with it. I'm glad to hear she's out of the bad situation, and hopeful that you'll get good news at the vet so you'll soon have a happy healthy pet.

K, I just went to check on her and she moved around again so I could get to her wound. GOOD GIRL! It doesn't appear to have any debris, but is dried out quite a bit. I gently touched and stroked around the area, she tensed at first but relaxed with continued gentle stroking around the site. So I place the warm, moist cloth on there and she tensed then quickly relaxed while I tucked it around her. I'll let it moisten the tissue then I'll place the neosporin on...if she doesn't move. lol

In the garage without her light or heat on, the gauge inside says 82F. I have the light off thinking she would feel more secure, in effect making her entire enclosure a hide. Also when I turn the light and heater on, the ambient temp got up to 94F. Anything above 85F and she opens her mouth. 82F lights and heat off she seems relaxed with mouth closed. Her head is at the other end, otherwise I'd take a pic.

If she does have a broken jaw, how is that fixed?

If I was you, I'd go to walmart and buy a 34qt tub with a small cat litter pan, a ceramic water bowl, and an accurite indoor/outdoor thermometer. Those temps are fine for now, but if you're going to nurse her back to health I would recommend buy a heat pad and a THERMOSTAT to regulate it. Have a look at the caresheet. That big enclosure it simply too big and I highly doubt that the poor snake will eat in it, hence the bite wounds. I know a tub isn't pretty, but it's practical and the snake will love you for it.


I rescued two balls a little over a year ago and they both had RIs and one had mouth rot caused by a bite to the tip of the upper jaw, right on her snout. What you are describing sounds like she may have mouth rot. It's easily taken care of. She was put on Baytril for the RI and I applied some neomycin (prescribed by the vet), to the wound. The Baytril cleared the RI and the mouth rot up within a week.


I wish you the best of luck with the poor girl, and you'll probably like a lot once she's all set up and healthy again :gj:

I would get a plastic storage tub and keep her in that on paper towels. Basic "hospital" environment. Put holes in the tub for some airflow.

82 is a bit cold for digestion, but won't really hurt her. Get a heat pad or a small bit of flexwatt to put under the tub for a hot spot in the low 90s. Use a thermostat or at least a lamp dimmer.

Have you read the caresheet?

Good luck with the poor girl. Some people...

Edit: lol, beat to it.

Good for you for helping the little one, I'm glad you decided to hang on to her.

Poor little lamb, some people are just thoughtless.

While I hope there is nothing serious wrong, I do think as bad as her condition is/was, I'd do a vet visit to be sure.

I don't know if you kept her in her big enclosure, or moved her to a smaller one, but it is something you may want to consider, just to help her relax.

It seems odd to me that warmer temps stress her out, I wonder if that could be related to an RI, or some other type of disease ? That is really strange.

From what I understand, leaving the light off is a good idea for now, as long as she's not in total darkness. What kind of heat are you using ? I know most people prefer belly heat for balls, especially as opposed to heat lamps.

I wish you the best with her.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

It seems odd to me that warmer temps stress her out, I wonder if that could be related to an RI, or some other type of disease ? That is really strange.

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My two rescues like it cooler than most BPs as well. The recommended ambient temps are ~85*, but mine like it ~75-82* MAX, with a 90* hot spot. I believe it's because they were kept for years with no heat at all... Not sure how they even survived that.

What size of mat should I get? Exo-terra has a rainforest and desert heat...is there really a difference? I have access to ZooMed Mats as well. Will providing a basking spot of 90ish keep the ambient at 82-85? If not, in a plastic tub, what other heat source....the traditional light/ceramic on top seems to me it would melt the tub. Also, pics of your hole configurations and general set up would be helpful. Also, completely opaque or translucent tub?

I'm shooting for having her in her new enclosure tonight.:)

Zoomed should work fine - but don't forget to get a rheostat or dimmer to go with it - to prevent it from over-heating and burning her. Un-regulated heat pad will get hot enough to burn the belly of a ball python.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Zoomed should work fine - but don't forget to get a rheostat or dimmer to go with it - to prevent it from over-heating and burning her. Un-regulated heat pad will get hot enough to burn the belly of a ball python.

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Dimmer thingy from Lowes $2.49....what size of mat? I was thinking the up to 5 gallon one for a basking spot...though I'm not sure how big it actually is. lol

I went shopping for the tub, UTH etc, and when I came back, my husband said she was crawling all over the place. I looked at the enclosure and sure enough, she was half in her water tub and half out. She was checking out the crack in the door, testing all the new smells. So I took the opportunity to get her out. SHE WAS AWESOME!! Never made a strike pose in my direction. I handled her very gently and tried to use fluid motion to let her exercise. I took her out into the sunlight and let her exercise a bit. While I had her out I had my husband put more neosporin on her back. Her mouth looked like a wet scab where she had been drinking and soaking. lol I coulda swore I felt a belch too. lmao I had her out for about 15 min, put her back into her enclosure and turned on all her basking sources....she seemed to get another drink, then curled up to take another healing nap. :) We are pleased thus far with her temperment and progress. I'll be making a vet appointment tomorrow, and start on her new enclosure tonight.:banana:

Have you gotten her to eat yet? You do not want to handle your snake until they are properly settled in and on a decent feeding schedule.

Congrats! Considering the condition she is in, I doubt the previous owners rarely gave her clean water. She's soaking it all up now! That's awesome! And as far as the UTH goes, I use the one for the 10-20 gallon tanks. I'm really happy that she found a good home :)

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

Have you gotten her to eat yet? You do not want to handle your snake until they are properly settled in and on a decent feeding schedule.

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This is how I understand u may want to do it under normal circumstances, but she really needs a vet right now more than anything. Therefore I have to handle her a bit first in order to get her there.

Besides, she made it abundantly clear she wanted to explore. I feel a little, and I mean little, better about her face. The swelling has gone down just a bit and she seems to act like a normal python...flicks her toungue, wants to investigate stuff, and tracks warm mammals still (my cat walked by). Admittedly, I do not have much experience with reptiles, but I've nursed many an injured mammal back to health. And I could be wrong, but I take her progressive behavior as a good sign. I will feel much better after speaking with a herp vet tho;)

Just keep in mind that it isn't normal for ball pythons to explore. If they're hiding they're happy. If they're cruising they're uncomfortable or hungry. In your case I'd imagine she's probably extremely uncomfortable. Handling her now isn't a huge deal. After she's all healed up and your vet gives you the okay to feed her, leave her alone for a week then feed. Good luck! I'd like to see some pics of the little girl if you can get some. Also, did you name her?

I went to check on the temps before I went to bed and took some pics. She sounds like she has an RI. :( I took some quick pics of her anyway. Note the mangled nose. When she raised her head, she shivered...I know they don't shiver like mammals, just the best description of what I saw. She did this twice. Also, I've observed little white bugs crawling on her and little reddish brown ones in the enclosure. Some in the water bath dish. I thought I read mites were black? The white ones def look like mites or the nymphs of the reddish brown things...the reddish brown ones look like bugs you would find in grain?

Hoping the vet can get me in soon.:snake:

I will name her when she is out of the woods.....I don't want to get too attached, and I'm not ENTIRELY sure of her sex....she has some pretty big spurs.

the bugs soung like mites, u should order some Provent-A-Mite and treat the enclosure. kills all the lil nasties that can be in there and the eggs. if ur snake has an RI you need to get to the vet for antibiotics or ur snake will eventually die. i relly hope ur vet can get u in. tell them she has an RI, they should make u an appt pretty quick. good luck

The white things are likely wood mites, annoying but not dangerous as far as I know. The grain looking bugs could also be from her bedding and enclosure unless you broke it down and sterilized it. You can order Provent-a-Mite online and it will kill any and all nasties in her enclosure.

Don't panic about the RI yet, keep her temps steady, her humidity stable and get her to your vet as soon as you can. It is possible she has one certainly, but not necessarily. It could just be stress and/or adjustment to the new surroundings.

The vet should be able to sex her for you, but I have to say, my biggest girl has monster spurs, like a cats claws! :O

Gale

Called the vet this morning and got an appointment for the 31st at 3:30PM wich us luck!:gj:

get that hole you can see muscle fibers at checked out first and foremost a huge wound like that needs cleaned or infection will set in

but that other stuff from how it sounds could be caused by being constantly being stressed. stressed animals get sick easier and to much stress can kill a snake (maybe not directly but very stressed sometimes refuse to eat) like you say this girl you can literally see where her prey has chewed on her to the point you can see muscle fibers (should of had them arrested for animal cruality) could of got charged for either watching the rat chew on the snake that long or for not taking it to the vet to get it proper medical treatment either way my local animal control would of taken the snake from them if they would of seen it in that kind of conditions being allowed to sit around with very visibly wrong stuff going on with the snake (think i would of punched them if i would of seen that)

when you take it to the vet tell the vet there name cause I'm sure any other pets they got are more then likely treated about the same.

just let her be for at least a few weeks guaranteed she was stressed to the max.

you will be surprised how quick that wound on her back will heal once it gets proper medical attention. i had a wild caught from back when they use to burn fields and caught all that come out alive (ones with huge burn scars) i had one that had a 4 inch long burn mark after a year you could only see the outline of the burn had pattern just a Lil faded looking from the rest after 2 years the outline was barely visible and couldn't tell a difference in color. if rember right shortly after 2 whole years i trader her off to a buddy who hatched some burm eggs for 2 babies

Well, vet says she's very skinny, has a respiratory infection and flagellate worm infestation. I must say, she was a real trooper through it all. he checked her for mites, clear. Took a fecal, flagellates. Weighed her, 1,466 grams. They were also pleased with her temperment, especially when I told him they had not handled her for 2 years or more. The shaking when she rears up he thinks is due to weekness. They wormed her, gave her an antibiotic injection and showed me how to do it when I got home. One injection every 72 hours. I was also given a salve for the bite wound in her mouth an antiseptic wash for all her wounds and a cream to apply to the several wounds on her body. All to be applied twice daily. We all thought the day was plenty sressful enough and decided to wait until the check up in 2 weeks to sex her...IF she's doing well. I got her home, let her be for a few hours, then took her out, soaked her to remove any extra debris and dried blood, and washed each and every wound with the anticeptic wash. I had her on a towel on my kitchen table. When I started to wash her wounds she got antsy....I just flopped a corner of towel over her head and she was fine...let me do my thing. lol I She protests, but not too badly when I hold her head still to put cream on top of her nose. After all that, she went into her nice, new clean enclosure and curled up on her basking spot (temp at 91F) yawned, sighed and seemed to be content.

Now I could be crazy, but I keep getting the sense that she is ravenously hungry....even before I went to the vet. Don't know why. I was going to by her a frozen mouse tomorrow. Vet suggested to give her a day or two then start presenting, simply because we REALLY need her to eat. Is the evening the best time to present?

Off to read the feeding and thawing stickies! lol

PS: The former owners called her Tazzy. I figured I just shorten it to Taz...pretty unisex :taz: lmao.

Evening is best. You can let the mouse thaw near her container, or on it, this is called pre scenting and the snake will usually smell the mouse and get very hungry! If f/t doesn't work, try live, just always supervise and don't leave in over night.

Poor lamb. I'm glad you know what is wrong now, and can treat her.

I bet she knew you were trying to help her, and that's why she was so good for you while you were doctoring her.

I feed my snakes about an hour after sundown, and it seems like they feed best about then.

Get her a good, big mouse. Leave it thaw at room temp near her enclosure, and I bet she'll be ready to go!

Gale

If she won't eat f/t, try live and try rats. They are higher in protein and a more complete meal. look around on craigslist in your area under the pets community section, if there is a rat breeder in the area, they will most likely post there. That is how we found our guy that we get rats from and he is also a BP breeder. He now has become a trusted friend and a great resource for information to help fill in any blanks. :D

It sounds like you found a good herp vet. I'm sure with the proper care and feeding she will get up to weight and become a wonderful pet for you. Keep us posted!!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by BLMinFL

They are higher in protein and a more complete meal.

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That statement is not true.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow that sucks how everything works out heads up saw this on the first couple of posts people were saying use neosporin. don't use neosporin (however you spell it) its used to prevent staff infection and doesn't really work. The best for bite/wounds is sylvadine which is prescribed for burns on people and it acts as a miracle drug from my experience. Like I said hope everything works sounds like shes in great hands now :)

Silvadene cream for the exterior wounds and Gentocin Opth. Ointment for her mouth.

Brought home a frozen mouse tonight. Let it start thawing next to the cage....she stayed in her hide. I removed the hide and put the mouse next to her nose...nothing. However, she still wasn't even flicking her tongue. Hmmmm I remembered someone said she may be tank shy at first...soooo I removed her from her enclosure, grabbed the mouse and sat with her at the dining table...fitting, right? Well she started getting active, flicking her tongue and searching again...I laid the mouse right in her path. She flicked her tongue twice, pressed her nose into it, grabbed a leg and started coiling. She was so caught up in her catch that she rolled over into my hands and I held her while she ate...butt first. LMAO That's my girl :taz:. With a reposition of her jaw and a few satisfying flicks of the tongue, she started up my arm after she finished. I placed her back in her enclosure to digest.

I dont really HAVE to handle her til Friday (the second of 7 antibiotic injections), but am prescribed to put cream and salve on her wounds twice a day. I can do the large one on her back without handling her, but I think holding her head for the mouth and top of her nose will be too stressful right after eating. What do you all think?

Did you remember to heat the mouse up first? If not that may be why she wasn't interested at first.

I think as long as you are as gentle as possible, and put no pressure on her belly, you should be okay. She's not going to like it, but they aren't quite as fragile as some people think.

Gale

Yep! I put it in a ziploc baggie and floated in warm water. I just don't think she was completely "awake" yet....she kept trying to curl back up and sleep....like trying to wake a kid up for school. Lol

A lot of people use a hair dryer on the head of the rat right before giving it to the snake. It makes the head hotter which gives the snake a good target.

Just read this whole thread and I think it's awesome what you are doing for this poor girl. She sounds lke a fighter and looks like she understands what you are doing with her. It's amazing.

I've been following along with this thread and want to say thank you for rescuing her! My female was a rescue and had been mauled by a rat when the pet shop got her. The pet shop we got her from said they thought the people that brought them into the store put too large of a rat in with her and didn't monitor it and it ate her tail. Her tail is severely shortened. Maybe 3/4 of an inch past the cloaca is all she has left. But she is the sweetest snakie. Sounds like your new ball will be just fine and enjoys her new home. Especially if she is eating again already.

Also on the topic of stressing her out, our rescued female is a trooper and I haven't seen her show any signs of stress except once when we first brought her home even when we were teaching my roommate's younger cousins [10 and 13 years old] about snakes and they got a little too excited and tried to grab them a little too quickly. I think your bp will know that you're only doing what you have to and she'll be ok.

Awesome! I'm so glad she has eaten for you :) She surely needs the strength. Post pictures sometime, I'd really like to see her!


Edit* Just looked at your gallery. I'm lovin' the stripe down her neck, she's super cute!

Here she is in all her glory!

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Just gave her injection #2 of 7...thought I was going to be in for a wrestlin match....but she barely flinched when I gave it to her! She also let me put the cream and salv on her nose and mouth, WHITHOUT holding her head! Her body is starting to feel better. I went to change her water and I saw a film on the surface from the cream and or salve on her nose, so she's drinking...probably why her body looks and feels so much better. When she's out, she seems stronger and more alert, tongue active and testing the air. I guess what I'm trying to say is she seems to be adapting well to her new situation and isn't calm due to weekness and lethargy. Clear as mud? lol

When should I try to feed her again? And when should I expect to see poo! woohoo! lmao

I would put her on a weekly schedule just because she's over 1000 grams. She will probably go into shed sometime soon. 1) To get rid of the dead skin, and 2) Because if she hasn't eaten in a while then she will gain weight pretty rapidly. Her belly will start to look pinkish and then her eyes will go blue. Some BPs will eat in shed and some won't so don't be surprised if you offer and she refuses. I honestly wouldn't be surprised is she DOES eat though just because she's probably ravenously hungry.

You might not see poop for a while. They will use up all the nutrients and not produce anything when they're unhealthy. Once she's on a weekly schedule you'll start seeing a pattern in when she goes to the bathroom. Mine didn't go the the bathroom for the first six months that I had them. They can go a LONG time without going, so don't worry about that. They go about once a week now. You'll definitely start seeing urates (a chalky white substance) as well as urine, if she is drinking a lot of water.


She is awfully pretty! She be quite the looker once her skin is back to normal. She will look immensely better after she sheds.

Today was injection day...again she did great. Her mouth and wounds look so much better....she still pops when she breaths, though not as bad. My husband hasn't seen her since we got her and he remarked on how much better she looks and feels. My schedule not being ideal today, I went ahead and gave her her meds and presented another mouse at about 2:30PM. I can't find my hair dryer, so I wasnt able to warm just the head, so I just tried to position the head closer to her. She took it behind the shoulders, held it to make sure it was dead. She then worked her way UP the body and it slid down head first nice and easy....my husband laughed and said you could almost see her smile.

She doesn't even pull away when i put the cream on top of her nose anymore....I don't even have to hold her head....only for injections. Such a good snakey!:banana: It also looks like she can close her mouth correctly.:D

It's really amazing that she's eating for you with all she's going through! So happy for the both of you :D

If only my snake was as cooperative! I hope that you are leaning more into keeping her. It sounds like she is healing and adapting very nicely. It would be a shame to pass her off into another unknown environment.

No worries, I'm pretty set on keepin her....I'll just have 2 snakes instead of just the one I was planning on....have to wait a little longer to get him now though. :( The money I spent on her vet care kinda put a nice dent in my snake budget. lmao

He's at the LPS I work at, so I get to see and play with him often... took this pic tonight lol
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Came home from work tonight to find some shed skin! woohoo...even tho my humidity was high, it was still in peices, though the front half came off in one piece complete with eye scales. Not perfect, but considering the damage she had taken I'll take it! :gj: Her nose looks so much better!

PICTURES PLEASE !!!!!

lol :)

Much improved...instead of dead, infected wounds, I see fresh new tissue. And you can't see the muscle in the hole on her back. Her nose wound was soooo dirty and deep. It's still deep, but again, clean healthy tissue.

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She still has some body shedding in spots on the dorsal side of her lower half. The painful part had to be the nose and big wound. Looked like two gnarly scabs...and you know how much those hurt when you pick em off! It had to have been a lot of work, so I'll reward her with a mouse, unless you all think I should bump her to a small rat. Her mouth swelling and wound are soooooo much better. But she wan't to keen on holdin still anymore. lol She doest get another injection and will make a follow up visit to the vet on Tuesday. So with all that action, maybe I should feed light with the mouse? All in all, I think the vet will be please with her progress.

Looking very nice !!! Just keep her on paper while she is healing and within a couple of sheds, she will be good as new :)
She certainly looks like she could/should be eating rats. Guess you can try...

oh ya, she can handle a rat. i fed my 1300gr girl a medium rat the other night and it was nothing her her, try a small rat and see how she takes it.

she looks a lot better, nice and healthy and on the way to a full recovery, she will love you forever