quick ? about Wobbles...

I have been doing reading on BPs. I came across a thing called Wobbles, so You Tube showed me what Head Wobbles are. Is this a morph thing only, or can all BPs do this, even norms?

thanks

As of right now, as far as I know, only Spiders seem to be linked to the Wobble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarin

As of right now, as far as I know, only Spiders seem to be linked to the Wobble.

---

thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarin

As of right now, as far as I know, only Spiders seem to be linked to the Wobble.

---

I hatched out a normal from spider x normal who does show signs of wobble. She's not a train wreck by any means but it's visible. I personally didn't think anything but spider and spider combos would show the wobble, I was wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jsh

I hatched out a normal from spider x normal who does show signs of wobble. She's not a train wreck by any means but it's visible..

---

Got any video proof?
*not calling you a liar*
I've yet to see anything besides a spider wobble.

I currently don't, I noticed the other day that her head was tilted slightly. Since I had a kinked normal already I made sure she had no kinks on her neck. It was also the first feeding day and when she went to grab the mouse her head move up and down before taking it. I'm pretty sure its a slight wobble based on how she took the mouse but I could be wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jsh

I currently don't, I noticed the other day that her head was tilted slightly. Since I had a kinked normal already I made sure she had no kinks on her neck. It was also the first feeding day and when she went to grab the mouse her head move up and down before taking it. I'm pretty sure its a slight wobble based on how she took the mouse but I could be wrong?

---

I should also point out that their were no visable spiders in the clutch but he was the only male put with her this year. Also, a little more info on the clutch:
5 eggs, 2 died at around 2 weeks in, three normals hatched, one had kinks.

So am I correct in saying that there is a controversial debate in the breeding of morphs? I am not sure my stance on this, if 1 out of 10 wobble, a defect from breeding, that would not be so bad. If 4 out of 10 wobble then it might be a issue. Being it effects eating, I wonder if it effects the personality of the snake, does he know he is "lame"? By lame I mean he more than likely would not survive in the wild. OR am I just reaching here?

A wobble can be very pronounced (where the snake does a corkscrew with its head) or can be very slight (just a slight cute-dog tilt to the head when in a strike-mode s-coil).

My spider shows no other "unique" trait except for the slight swaying motion of his head right before he strikes. He is not the most accurate striker but he is a voracious eater, so he grew faster than my other snakes who goes on periodic fasts.

The wobble doesn't affect eating except for some who are not as accurate with the strike. Even the corkscrewy ones manage to catch their prey.

A corkscrewy wobble doesn't necessarily produce corkscrewy offspring just like a no-wobble can produce wobbly offspring... that is, the amount of wobble appears to be randomly generated.

Wobbles can appear on other morphs but it seems to be more predominant in spiders. I got this info from 8ballpythons.com but I can't link it anymore because the site has been taken down.

Nothing controversial about the breeding of wobbly spiders because a wobble doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cordell

So am I correct in saying that there is a controversial debate in the breeding of morphs? I am not sure my stance on this, if 1 out of 10 wobble, a defect from breeding, that would not be so bad. If 4 out of 10 wobble then it might be a issue. Being it effects eating, I wonder if it effects the personality of the snake, does he know he is "lame"? By lame I mean he more than likely would not survive in the wild. OR am I just reaching here?

---

When it comes to spiders 10 out of 10 wobble.. :gj::gj:I've never seen a wobbly spider have trouble eating and I've seen some doozies.

I think you're reaching but it's not something that isn't brought up at least once a month.. Also snakes aren't self aware for one so no wobbly complex

Got ya, OK so I think I know what you are talking about with the "corkscrew". I posted a youtube link to a video with a wobble spider/pinstripe. They just do these movements out of the blue? Or they are attempting to do something and cant, meaning their movements are hindered and it causes the wobble? I dont have a spider, just a norm. I am only trying to understand what this is and why it happens, also if I can prevent my BP from getting the wobbles.



YouTube - ‪Spinner Ball Python Wobbling‬‎

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cordell

Got ya, OK so I think I know what you are talking about with the "corkscrew". I posted a youtube link to a video with a wobble spider/pinstripe. They just do these movements out of the blue? Or they are attempting to do something and cant, meaning their movements are hindered and it causes the wobble? I dont have a spider, just a norm. I am only trying to understand what this is and why it happens, also if I can prevent my BP from getting the wobbles.

---

The movements do seem to come "out of the blue". I don't think the wobble hinders movemant or anything else for that matter. Like Freakie frog said, 10 out of 10 will wobble, meaning all of them to some degree, so I don't beileive you can prevent wobble.

Our spider doesn't wobble, per se, but she does have signs of it. She doesn't right herself quickly if upside down. Also, when holding her, when bringing her head up from dangling, she comes up sort of sideways--almost like she's drunk. It's kinda cute.

The wobble doesn't affect the snake's ability to live and thrive. It's just a thing spiders can have--and from what I've read, most, if not all, have it in some way, shape, or form. It's definitely not a reason not to breed them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClarkT

She doesn't right herself quickly if upside down. Also, when holding her, when bringing her head up from dangling, she comes up sort of sideways--almost like she's drunk. It's kinda cute.

---

Then you spider wobbles..

It's not out of the blue usually. It normally happens when they exert their neck muscles. I don't know if it's nervous system, muscular system, or psychological that makes the wobble. But, just like that video you posted, instead of the spinner, turning his head around to look behind him, he turns his head upside down instead. And when he holds his head up, he sways/vibrates. So, basically, they won't just start swaying out of the blue like a siezure.

There's no "cure" or "prevention" for it other than - don't get a spider.

Yeah, I didn't mean she doesn't wobble, only that she doesn't have the "classic" wobble I've seen on so many you tube vids. It's obvious she wobbles. Its' kinda funny to watch.

Wobbling, spinning, corkscrewing is most often seen in times of stress (feeding, breeding, new enviorment, handling, etc) or when a snake is cruising around in its cage. My girl sometimes corkscrews when searching her tub and wobbles a little when it's feeding time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anatess

It's not out of the blue usually. It normally happens when they exert their neck muscles. I don't know if it's nervous system, muscular system, or psychological that makes the wobble. But, just like that video you posted, instead of the spinner, turning his head around to look behind him, he turns his head upside down instead. And when he holds his head up, he sways/vibrates. So, basically, they won't just start swaying out of the blue like a siezure.

There's no "cure" or "prevention" for it other than - don't get a spider.

---

So he is looking behind him, rather than a turn of the head, his head goes upside down. My guess would be nervous system, and because of this it will soon be a part of the muscular system. Hrmm, interesting. I wonder why it only effects spiders, got to be some chromosome thats missing or something like that. The breeding down, or up, depending on how you look at it, something turns up missing in the spider morph. Anyway, thanks for all the answers! I dont think I will be getting a spider, not because of the wobble, because of the cost! If I was to get a morph I would go for the Super Cinnamon. I like the solid black color!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Got any video proof?
*not calling you a liar*
I've yet to see anything besides a spider wobble.

---

I have 2000g normal female from a bumblebee x normal pairing and she has a slight wobble every now and then. It's only when she gets real excited feeding. If I catch her doin it again soon I'll post a video.

a video would be good :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarin

As of right now, as far as I know, only Spiders seem to be linked to the Wobble.

---

There are others that wobble, but are not considered genetically linked like spider and spider crosses.

We have a member here who has a spinning het pied as a pet - she worked for a large breeder who was going to cull it, and she adopted it and still has him a few years later - he still wobbles/spins, but is thriving.

Right. What we call a 'Wobble' would be better termed "Inner Ear defect or neurological symptoms".

Spiders have this as a matter of course--if the defect is minor, the spider may not wobble--if it's more marked, then they will. From evidence, all spiders have it.

Other ball pythons may wobble, but generally for different reasons--a neurological or inner ear defect could occur in any animal. I also would not breed any non-spider that wobbled, in case it was carrying a genetic defect.

The wobble defect in spiders is PART of the spider mutation (from all evidence), so cannot be bred out. People have most certainly tried--spiders are one of the MOST out-crossed morphs out there, because there is no known super form.

It remains to be seen if the severity of the defect can be minimized by focusing breeding programs on the least affected animals only, or if it is truly random.

I have never had any normal sibs from spider clutchs show any trace of a wobble. I suspect that when this happens, it is unrelated to their being spider sibs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cordell

Got ya, OK so I think I know what you are talking about with the "corkscrew". I posted a youtube link to a video with a wobble spider/pinstripe.

---

This is a good video. If you look closely, you will see that the spinner is actually exploring, looking for a way out--he's pushing on the back wall of the bin with his nose. He isn't simply contorting into a strange position for no reason, he's in the middle of doing something. He just doesn't care that his head's upside down while he does it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

This is a good video. If you look closely, you will see that the spinner is actually exploring, looking for a way out--he's pushing on the back wall of the bin with his nose. He isn't simply contorting into a strange position for no reason, he's in the middle of doing something. He just doesn't care that his head's upside down while he does it.

---

I was thinking that too. It seems he is wanting out of the cage. Perhaps he was placed in that cage with the other BP just for the purpose of making the video. I found another vid where a mouse is being offered with tongs (frozen/thawed, the tongs are perfectly still, while the snake is wobbling all over with his head! He does finally get the food, once he settles down a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cordell

I was thinking that too. It seems he is wanting out of the cage. Perhaps he was placed in that cage with the other BP just for the purpose of making the video. I found another vid where a mouse is being offered with tongs (frozen/thawed, the tongs are perfectly still, while the snake is wobbling all over with his head! He does finally get the food, once he settles down a bit.

---

The person who posted that video is Tosha - who used to be a member here. She placed him in there with the other ball python for breeding purposes. She said he only displays his wobble/spin that severely when he gets excited (like in a breeding situation).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

There are others that wobble, but are not considered genetically linked like spider and spider crosses.

We have a member here who has a spinning het pied as a pet - she worked for a large breeder who was going to cull it, and she adopted it and still has him a few years later - he still wobbles/spins, but is thriving.

---

yes I've also seen an albino that had the spin, wasn't related to any spider project that he knew of. thing still ate great tho. like every other spider out there

to the OP: don't worry about the wobble. it just something that comes with the morph, but as you can see there about 290387548978439 spiders out there and I've never herd of one not being able to surivive and reproduce, due to a wobble.

My spider has a very VERY small wobble.
Doesn't really affect him at all. The only thing it really affects is like...if I flip him over to get a belly shot...it takes a minute for him to figure out which way is up again.