Bins vs Tanks

I know that for people with multiple reptiles prefer to keep them in bins in an organized rack than in a traditional tank, just for cost and cleaning ease.

But I always wondered, why is it that it's acceptable to put a full grown bp in a tub about 2 ft long, 8 in across, and 4 in high (That's a total guess), but it's pretty much demanded that they not be kept in any tank smaller than a 30 gal?

This isn't me complaining. I honestly want to know. It could save me a lot of hassle in the future.

Well, for one, ball pythons do not need vertical space as they are not tree dwelling snakes. They like to stay on the ground and hide. You will waste alot of space by putting them in a high cage. My tubs are only 6inches high and they work fine. The amount of floor space they get in a large tub is enough for them. The reason fish tanks are not suitable for bps is because they are "big" but if you compare the floor space, they are no larger than a 41qt plastic tub used for adult bps. Plus inside a closed sided rack, less light is allowed in. And those are the reasons i use a tubs over tanks :)

FYI:

20 gallon long - 30"x12"X12"
30 gallon long - 36"x18"x12"

CB70 bin - 33.5"x17.5"x5.25"

A ball python is a ground dweller, therefore, height is not important. Floor dimension is. That's why most people will tell you to at least have 30L. You might be able to fit a male bp in a 20L but my male is too big for a 20L.

It's acceptable because it's all they need and all they want. Anything larger than a 40qt tub (for my guys) and they get stressed and go off feed.

1. They need short enclosures because they are not arboreal snakes, they can hurt themselves when provided the chance to climb up high in an escape attempt. The ONLY time you will see a ball climbing is if they are uncomfortable. 2. They like tight spaces, not wide open tanks.
3. Opaque tubs are great because the snake can't see out, whereas a tank is completely see-through.
4. Tubs are great for humidity and heat. It IS possible to keep tanks just right but it's a lot of wasted effort IMO.

I only have two BPs, but I wouldn't ever put either one of them in a tank.

Looks like the nailed it^^^:gj:

Ball pythons are definitely terrestrial, and it is OK to have a branch or two in the tank but, IMO, I believe it's just an accident awaiting to happen. They aren't climbing, as said they are ground dwellers not needing height more than length.

But, that's not the reason why I keep my BPs in tubs vs. tanks.

I use tubs because: way easier to control temps & humidity, light in weight, easy to clean, less expensive, and it's stackable.:)

I believe tanks are only really good for showing off or keeping a display reptile/amphibian in it.

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Originally Posted by sarahlovesmiike

4. Tubs are great for humidity and heat. It IS possible to keep tanks just right but it's a lot of wasted effort IMO.

I only have two BPs, but I wouldn't ever put either one of them in a tank.

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It is a lot more effort to maintain a tank set-up but it is not wasted effort if your purpose is to have a display vivarium.

I have 4 snakes that are in display vivs. All healthy.

BP's can outgrow a 20L, especially if you have a female. 30L is perfect. 40L for breeding.

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Originally Posted by anatess

BP's can outgrow a 20L, especially if you have a female. 30L is perfect. 40L for breeding.

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This is what I don't understand. I know they're terrestrial and I know that a tub is perfectly suitable for them. Though I didn't know the dimensions of an average tub, so that's one question.

But what I want to know now is why a generic 30 gal tank is generally seen as acceptable but a 20L, which has the same floorspace, is not. I've gathered from the above post that a 30L is better, but then why do most not complain about a 30?

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

This is what I don't understand. I know they're terrestrial and I know that a tub is perfectly suitable for them. Though I didn't know the dimensions of an average tub, so that's one question.

But what I want to know now is why a generic 30 gal tank is generally seen as acceptable but a 20L, which has the same floorspace, is not. I've gathered from the above post that a 30L is better, but then why do most not complain about a 30?

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You're talking about a regular 30 gallon tall, we're talking about a 30 gallon breeder tank.

A 30 gallon breeder tank has the same floor space as a 40 gallon breeder, its just not quite as tall.

So 30 breeders actually have a lot more floor space than a 20 gallon long.

the one and only reason i switched is that my oldest was a stressed out mess of a snake for like 10 years, 2 weeks after being put in a tub she turned into the nicest snake i have. except at feeding time!!:O!!

as far as your 20L vs 30L question its probally the extra 6 inches wide the 30 is,which the tubs end up being that wide also? i guess. another thing is the tubs throw you off because they are so short, that what it was for me.:gj:

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Originally Posted by anatess

It is a lot more effort to maintain a tank set-up but it is not wasted effort if your purpose is to have a display vivarium.

I have 4 snakes that are in display vivs. All healthy.

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I just feel like if someone wants a display animal they should get something other than a BP. Because, while they are awesome pets and some do fine (like yours) in nice displays that people can look at, others get very stressed out being looked in upon all the time. I couldn't get my male eating consistently for anything, then we moved and the snakes got their own room with no traffic, except for the daily water change and the cat, he began hiding all the time and eating every week.

Now I'm not saying that a BP shouldn't be in a display viv, I'm just saying that if you want a cool display pet I wouldn't recommend a Ball Python.

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Originally Posted by alexOATH

You're talking about a regular 30 gallon tall, we're talking about a 30 gallon breeder tank.

A 30 gallon breeder tank has the same floor space as a 40 gallon breeder, its just not quite as tall.

So 30 breeders actually have a lot more floor space than a 20 gallon long.

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I know I'm talking about a 30 tall. That's my point. Every care sheet I've ever read on ball pythons says 30 gal, not 30 gallon long/breeder. I know 30Ls have more floorspace than a 20L.

I'm not arguing that a 30L is better, either, just asking why more people don't specify.

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Originally Posted by sarahlovesmiike

Now I'm not saying that a BP shouldn't be in a display viv, I'm just saying that if you want a cool display pet I wouldn't recommend a Ball Python.

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Why not? I think they're one of the most beautiful snakes in existence. And it's one of the few really attractive snakes that can be housed in a relatively small aquarium. As opposed to say, redtails or bloods.

I keep mine in a tank because I only have one and so have the time to maintain humidity and temperature properly.

Me 2. All 3 of my reptiles are in aquariums, but I plan on having more eventually.

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

Why not? I think they're one of the most beautiful snakes in existence. And it's one of the few really attractive snakes that can be housed in a relatively small aquarium. As opposed to say, redtails or bloods.

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they spend a good 85% of their lives hiding. Its hard to say an animal makes a good display animal when you almost never see it.

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

they spend a good 85% of their lives hiding. Its hard to say an animal makes a good display animal when you almost never see it.

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My BP is out and about almost every time I go into the room. Every now and then he hides, but not 85% of the time.

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

My BP is out and about almost every time I go into the room. Every now and then he hides, but not 85% of the time.

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Thats not necessarily a good thing. A happy ball python is a hiding ball python.



Although I get the display thing, I have my boas in display tanks and I go all out with their decor using realistic hides and make my own backgrounds using fake plants, have logs in there, etc. And even if the snake isn't always out the tank itself still looks really cool, like a mini jungle in a glass box.

Keep in mind that not all bp's are the same, just about everyone of mine have different personalities,

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Originally Posted by alexOATH

You're talking about a regular 30 gallon tall, we're talking about a 30 gallon breeder tank.

A 30 gallon breeder tank has the same floor space as a 40 gallon breeder, its just not quite as tall.

So 30 breeders actually have a lot more floor space than a 20 gallon long.

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

as far as your 20L vs 30L question its probally the extra 6 inches wide the 30 is,which the tubs end up being that wide also? i guess. another thing is the tubs throw you off because they are so short, that what it was for me.:gj:

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When you're comparing tanks versus bins (or even just 2 different types of enclosures), you want to compare square footage (floor area), not total volume.

So yes, a 20L is smaller than a 30L because a 20L is only 30"x12" whereas a 30L (same as a 30 gallon breeder) is 36"x18". A CB70-size tub which most breeders use for their adult bps is 33.5"x18.5". So the CB70 tub is only a few inches shy of a 30L.

There are 2 types of 40 gallons... The 40 gallon breeder is the same as the 30L except it is 6 inches taller. A 40L is 48"x12"x16". A 40L has more floor space than a 40 breeder. I know, quite confusing with these idiot names.

But, generally, you want to use 30L for adult bp's, or a CB70 bin or any other tank/bin that has around the same floor space. The thing with caresheets is sometimes they forget that they're talking to newbies that are not familiar with aquariums besides the ones used for fish. So, when they talk sizes, they tend to forget to mention that we are talking about the LONG tanks that are designed for reptiles and not fish.

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Originally Posted by sarahlovesmiike

I just feel like if someone wants a display animal they should get something other than a BP. Because, while they are awesome pets and some do fine (like yours) in nice displays that people can look at, others get very stressed out being looked in upon all the time. I couldn't get my male eating consistently for anything, then we moved and the snakes got their own room with no traffic, except for the daily water change and the cat, he began hiding all the time and eating every week.

Now I'm not saying that a BP shouldn't be in a display viv, I'm just saying that if you want a cool display pet I wouldn't recommend a Ball Python.

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Sarah, I completely get what you're saying. But, our family is different. My husband and kids want the snake, I want the viv. I don't want to see snake, I want to see Africa. Ball pythons are perfect for me because you never know they're there until you smell poop. It's perfect for husband and kids because they don't want any snake. They want a ball python... and a hognose (that you don't see too much of either because he likes to burrow under the substrate).

And no, the display vivs are not in the living room or anywhere close to traffic. My family don't visit me anymore as it is, having seen the snakes... I don't want my friends to stop visiting me too when they stop by and the first thing they see is snakes!

So, in my house, I have a giant fish tank in the foyer and a dog running all over the place. They're the only ones you see as a guest. All the rest of the pets - that's snakes, rats, bird, turtles, are out of the way. Rats in the back, turtles in the bedroom hallway, snakes in the office.

What can I say. We're a small zoo.

Bins!!!!!

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Originally Posted by anatess

When you're comparing tanks versus bins (or even just 2 different types of enclosures), you want to compare square footage (floor area), not total volume.

So yes, a 20L is smaller than a 30L because a 20L is only 30"x12" whereas a 30L (same as a 30 gallon breeder) is 36"x18". A CB70-size tub which most breeders use for their adult bps is 33.5"x18.5". So the CB70 tub is only a few inches shy of a 30L.

There are 2 types of 40 gallons... The 40 gallon breeder is the same as the 30L except it is 6 inches taller. A 40L is 48"x12"x16". A 40L has more floor space than a 40 breeder. I know, quite confusing with these idiot names.

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I figured most of this out.

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Originally Posted by anatess

But, generally, you want to use 30L for adult bp's, or a CB70 bin or any other tank/bin that has around the same floor space. The thing with caresheets is sometimes they forget that they're talking to newbies that are not familiar with aquariums besides the ones used for fish. So, when they talk sizes, they tend to forget to mention that we are talking about the LONG tanks that are designed for reptiles and not fish.

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THIS is what I wanted to know. Should've known it was just people making mistakes, lol. Thanks. My questions are over.

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Originally Posted by ericzerka24

Bins!!!!!

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Your comment doesn't count. You're not yet sober. :D:D:D
Just kidding!

I have mine in a 30g tank. Not a 30 long. My temperatures are steady and ever since I did the foil treatment on the lid, my humidity has been steady as well. I don't have any problems with my tank and my snake has always done well.

I thought about switching to a tub, but I'd miss the clearness of the tank. My snake hides all the time, but I still like being able to see him in his hides. His tank is definitely on display, but it's in the back corner of my bedroom and 99% of the time, I'm the only person in there.

The one and only thing that makes me want to switch to a bin is the cleaning issue. I am 5'3", 110lbs and I absolutely cannot lift the tank up to clean it by myself. Every time I have to clean his tank, I think "great... how am I going to do this by myself"? It has really become an issue for me.

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Originally Posted by Bones

I thought about switching to a tub, but I'd miss the clearness of the tank. My snake hides all the time, but I still like being able to see him in his hides. His tank is definitely on display, but it's in the back corner of my bedroom and 99% of the time, I'm the only person in there.

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This is the exact same reason I do. I like seeing my snake, and if he's hiding, I like to know exactly where he is. I guess you could do this with bins just by opening them, but with a regular tank you don't have to disturb them at all.

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Originally Posted by Bones

The one and only thing that makes me want to switch to a bin is the cleaning issue. I am 5'3", 110lbs and I absolutely cannot lift the tank up to clean it by myself. Every time I have to clean his tank, I think "great... how am I going to do this by myself"? It has really become an issue for me.

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If you mean the glass, try taking everything but the substrate (unless you use something that will get soggy and need replacing anyway) and scrub it with a wet toothbrush. It gets rid of all those little white drip stains without needing you to lift the tank at all.

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Originally Posted by anatess

Your comment doesn't count. You're not yet sober. :D:D:D
Just kidding!

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Haha $1 margarita night at la senoritas last nite got the best of me....wew