Beginner breeding?

So obviously I'm new here. I've had a male normal ball python for a little over a year now. I bought him as just a pet. However, as I'm sure you all know, the lil buggers are really freaking addictive. My friends agree and they all want one now too.

I don't think he's old enough to be bred yet, but I think in the future, my best friend and I would like to breed my Ramses to her....well she doesn't have one yet. Anyway, we're hoping that selling the offspring will help make college a little more bearable. I'd rather spend time taking care of lil snake babies than party. XD

So I'm sure that breeding these guys is more lucrative than expensive, or else you guys wouldn't do it. My question is, is it better to get a normal female, breed them and sell the offspring for $35 each until we've got enough, and then buy a cheap morph like a pastel? Or would it be better to just jump straight to the morphs? I've been doing some browsing and finding a female pastel under $150 (the most my friend wants to spend on the snake alone) is extremely difficult.

Thoughts?

Its more expensive then you'd imagine. Enclosures, heating, food, substrate, incubator, thermostats, etc...

A male can be ready to breed as early as 6 months. You need to check for sperm plugs! I would invest in a spider, pastel, mojave or cinnamon. They are reasonable priced and will give you a better return on your investment. After feeding the babies and your time, you will not money off them. It takes a couple clutches just to pay off the equipment and everything before you see a return! It is fun and more of just a hobby for most unless you breed on a large scale!

Well she's already got a tank, gauges, substrate, and hides. I've got some extra heating equipment from past reptiles. We're also both artists and musicians so that can help until the snakes do pay themselves off, and even afterward. I don't know about her, but I would love to become a bigtime breeder someday, and I figure it's never too early to start, right?

And the thing is, she's definitely getting one. I just figured we might as well make them a pair and get some money and experience out of it.

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I don't think he's old enough to be bred yet, but I think in the future, my best friend and I would like to breed my Ramses to her....well she doesn't have one yet. Anyway, we're hoping that selling the offspring will help make college a little more bearable. I'd rather spend time taking care of lil snake babies than party. XD

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Bear in mind that going into breeding EXPECTING to make a profit is a hard way to do it, you have to spend money to earn money, and these are animals that take time to grow before breeding, cost money as far as upkeep, and sometimes clutches fail or females don't breed or god knows what. Going into it with the expectation of breaking even in five years is ambitious IMO.

Look at me...by the end of this year I'll have spent over $1,000 on snakes, a few hundred on feeders and tubs and substrate and water dishes and electricity...and I don't have a single clutch yet. ;) I'm 100% loss at this point.

That's okay though, because I plan to breed not for profit (though breaking even would be awesome), I know of morphs I want that I can breed for as a hobby. :) Any superfluous snakes can be sold, if they sell...which is another issue. I know of a lot of breeders who sometimes can't seem to sell a perfectly awesome snake to save their lives! :P

So my advice, as a hobbyist, is to put the brakes on and rethink why you want to breed. Is it for the love of the snakes? Is it to create morphs to treasure and enjoy? Is it for profit?

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So I'm sure that breeding these guys is more lucrative than expensive,

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See my little math calculation above. I'm gonna be close to $1,700 in the hole by 2011, with a chance at MAYBE one, two clutches of single-morph co-dom eggs...IF I manage to get even that!!! For me, it's definitely WAY more expensive than lucrative!!!!

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or else you guys wouldn't do it

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I recently opted to invest in a Mojave female for my Mojave male. The hope is that within a few years, I'll get a clutch from them that might, if I'm lucky, have a Super Mojave. But I'm gonna be out a lot of money before that happens.

I do think the only way to profit is to breed combo morphs.

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My question is, is it better to get a normal female, breed them and sell the offspring for $35 each until we've got enough, and then buy a cheap morph like a pastel? Or would it be better to just jump straight to the morphs? I've been doing some browsing and finding a female pastel under $150 (the most my friend wants to spend on the snake alone) is extremely difficult.

Thoughts?

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Buy a morph. I'd go for something that combos nicely, like a Mojave...Pastel...Spider...something like that. Then double it up.

And consider yourself lucky to break even until you get some killer, stellar looking snakes. ;)

But again, what do I know? I've never yet hatched a clutch (which for me will be about another $200 to $500 investment, for the incubator and all the other necessities!) and am right now in the process of buying morphs (I'm rather proud of my little collection!), raising them up, and basically bleeding money through the nose with no return. And I couldn't be happier. ;)

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Well she's already got a tank,

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If you breed you are likely to end up with a fair number of snakes, and tanks SUCK when it comes to cleaning, not to mention they take up a tonne of space.

I made the switch to tubs early on and have never looked back. :)

Also remember each python needs it's own tub, and that you need to be prepared to house, feed, heat and otherwise care for any snakes you breed that you cannot sell. :P

OH, and one more thing...every year, as the market becomes more and more saturated with morphs, those morphs come down in price to reflect supply/demand. Meaning that to make money, you need to invest a fair bit to get a profitable snake...and by the time they are breeding they may not be so valuable. I know a fellow who bought a pair of Pastels back when they were still fairly expensive...and he never made back what he bought them for, and finally sold them dirt cheap. He had a financial loss on that pair. :P It happens.

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Originally Posted by Kyle@theHeathertoft

That's okay though, because I plan to breed not for profit (though breaking even would be awesome), I know of morphs I want that I can breed for as a hobby. :) Any superfluous snakes can be sold, if they sell...which is another issue. I know of a lot of breeders who sometimes can't seem to sell a perfectly awesome snake to save their lives! :P

So my advice, as a hobbyist, is to put the brakes on and rethink why you want to breed. Is it for the love of the snakes? Is it to create morphs to treasure and enjoy? Is it for profit?
And consider yourself lucky to break even until you get some killer, stellar looking snakes. ;)

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Well, I was hoping to make money doing something I love. I'm a firm believer in the "If you work doing something you love, you'll never work a day in your life" philosophy. I'm definitely passionate about snakes, and especially balls. But you guys seem to be doing a good job of talking me out of it.

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Originally Posted by Kyle@theHeathertoft

But again, what do I know? I've never yet hatched a clutch (which for me will be about another $200 to $500 investment, for the incubator and all the other necessities!) and am right now in the process of buying morphs (I'm rather proud of my little collection!), raising them up, and basically bleeding money through the nose with no return. And I couldn't be happier. ;)

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Well I've seen ads on Kingsnake and Faunaclassifieds, and a good portion of them get offers. Of course they don't say whether those play out, but.

I dunno. It seems I'll be waiting until after college then. Thanks for the input, guys, and for knocking some sense into me before it was too late.

Reailty sucks, doesn't it?

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Reailty sucks, doesn't it?

Jim Smith

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Yep! Sure does. I was going through the same thoughts about a year ago. I think it would be an awesome experience to breed BP's but after much thought and consideration, I decided that I couldn't devote THAT much time needed to each and every BP. That was my deciding factor. I was also completing my MBA as well. I'll do it one day...just not right now.

It's okay to breed bps but to expect it to help pay for college is unrealistic! Go ahead a breed for the enjoyment!

Oh my god, I so know what you're talking about--I've been hunting endlessly for days, trying to find a female snake to maybe breed my male BP to someday.
They are EXPENSIVE! Females more so than males. :(
There are barely, if any, breeders where I live, so I'm mostly looking online (unless I want to pay $80 at Petsmart/Petco for ONE BP). Shipping sucks, and unless you save up enough to get more than one female at a time, you'll lose money paying it.
Also, you need to get more than one female to breed your male to. Well, ok, not NEED to, but you get it. If you want to at least break even on the snakes you'll buy, you want as many offspring as possible--so I'd say for every male, probably have 2-3 females to breed him to.
Also, plan for the fact that people may not jump to buy your baby snakes at first. If that happens, what will you do for housing them? Housing multiple babies in the same tank could cause them to refuse feed, and downright stress them out. :(
I agree, though, that they are addictive little buggers. :)
One more thing--perhaps instead of buying a snake right away, you should save up for a while (if you can, I can imagine what college must be like) and see if you can get a more expensive morph, i.e. bees or Super pastels, lemon blasts, etc. That way you could sell them for a little more, too.)
Shellie
Source: my new book on BP's :)

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

So obviously I'm new here. I've had a male normal ball python for a little over a year now. I bought him as just a pet. However, as I'm sure you all know, the lil buggers are really freaking addictive. My friends agree and they all want one now too.

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First of all having only had you snake for a little over a year I'd suggest looking real hard at your housing situation and your long term housing options. Where you live now may allow one snake as a pet but might get a little miffed if they find half a dozen or more over night..

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I don't think he's old enough to be bred yet, but I think in the future, my best friend and I would like to breed my Ramses to her....well she doesn't have one yet. Anyway, we're hoping that selling the offspring will help make college a little more bearable. I'd rather spend time taking care of lil snake babies than party. XD

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Breeding and hatching is allot of fun but it is also a lot of work. Baby hatchlings are not set-it-and-forget-it things something else to think about. Getting them feeding can be a challenge and finding the right size food for them every 5 days can be costly and problematic. What happens to the food when they don't eat, ect ect ect..

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So I'm sure that breeding these guys is more lucrative than expensive, or else you guys wouldn't do it.

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LOL :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: I wish with the cost of feeders, bedding, housing, heating, marketing, shipping, ect ect you'll be doing good to break even in two - three years..

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My question is, is it better to get a normal female, breed them and sell the offspring for $35 each until we've got enough, and then buy a cheap morph like a pastel? Or would it be better to just jump straight to the morphs? I've been doing some browsing and finding a female pastel under $150 (the most my friend wants to spend on the snake alone) is extremely difficult.

Thoughts?

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What you breed isn't going to matter pastels eat the same food as a normal so pick what you like. But understand selling snakes isn't like selling cookies at a bake sale. You might have to house and feed and care for them for months before selling a single one..

Lets examine the costs Of breeding a pastel female to a normal in rough values..and can be adjusted but are simply an average..and assuming you don't raise your own feeder.. Which costs more for a couple of snakes than buying them..

• Pastel female: 200.00
• Food once a week; 1.50 for 156 weeks (3 years time it takes on average to get a female to breeding weight) X2 have to feed the male too
• Houseing; small rack 200.00 remember you'll have babies to consider..
• Thermostat and heating; 285.00 (roughly)
• Incubator with thermostat; 250.00 (roughly)
  Now after the babies are hatched assuming everything goes great!
  average of 6 eggs with 3 of them on average being Pastels.
• Baby food for three months (lets say you sell out in 3 months) 6.00 every 5 days = 18.00
• still feeding mom and dad mind you

Now you sell out great..
Invested over the last three years

Roughly

$1,421.00 invested

- $375.00 total value of animals sold at todays prices with no shipping

Leaves you

-$1046.00 in the hole

You guys forget I was going to do a partnership and split all the costs. That being said, we'd be splitting the profit too so I guess it doesn't matter.

Yeah, you guys win. I think she's just going to get a nice normal gal and breed once or twice for the sake of doing it. We can try again seriously after college.

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

You guys forget I was going to do a partnership and split all the costs. That being said, we'd be splitting the profit too so I guess it doesn't matter.

Yeah, you guys win. I think she's just going to get a nice normal gal and breed once or twice for the sake of doing it. We can try again seriously after college.

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You can become a breeder. It's a good hobby, but with most hobbies, it's going to cost you. At least you can make some money back when you sell your neonates. Go into it with that attitude and you won't be disappointed.

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

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Well, I was hoping to make money doing something I love. I'm a firm believer in the "If you work doing something you love, you'll never work a day in your life" philosophy. I'm definitely passionate about snakes, and especially balls. But you guys seem to be doing a good job of talking me out of it.

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I love snakes, too. I love the thought of breeding, being able to look at a beautiful co-dom someday and say "Yeah, I bred this little fellow myself."

I also love the fact that I have a very decent "day job" and a steady paycheque. Sometime soon I'll be moving up from an hourly paid rate to making 50% commission on the dogs I groom. I love grooming. And I will never quit my job as a dog groomer to breed snakes...a whole year's worth of clutches may fail but BY GOD people's dog's hair will still need to be washed and trimmed. :D

Of course nothing is stopping you from making this your hobby! I am really enjoying all my snakes, am very excited about some of the plans I have, and am daydreaming about next year when I might be able to start pairing up a female or two. :D

Do what you love, love what you do, and enjoy your hobbies. ;)

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I dunno. It seems I'll be waiting until after college then. Thanks for the input, guys, and for knocking some sense into me before it was too late.

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...fair enough. College is hella tough, and devours so much time and energy...maybe try this: put $10 a week into a jar, and at the end of college, take your "snake fund" and buy the coolest morph you can afford. :D Raise 'em up and then reconsider breeding...as a joyous hobby! :)

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It's okay to breed bps but to expect it to help pay for college is unrealistic! Go ahead a breed for the enjoyment!

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THIS. If you do feel like you have the time/energy/finances, get some cool single-morph snakes and raise 'em up, then breed for fun as a hobby!

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One more thing--perhaps instead of buying a snake right away, you should save up for a while (if you can, I can imagine what college must be like) and see if you can get a more expensive morph, i.e. Bees or Super pastels, lemon blasts, etc. That way you could sell them for a little more, too.

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Exactly. :) Grab a calculator and figure out what $10 a week is after two to four years. That'd be a rockin' snake fund. ;)

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First of all having only had you snake for a little over a year I'd suggest looking real hard at your housing situation and your long term housing options. Where you live now may allow one snake as a pet but might get a little miffed if they find half a dozen or more over night..

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True story: I'm moving at the end of the month from this crappy little apartment to a nice two-bedroom full-basement rented house at the end of the month.

I'm moving because I want my cats to have more room to run around, and so I can get more snakes. Right now my snakes live in my room, which...isn't comfortable for me since I do not like the heat I now keep it at. Once we move, the snakes are getting their own room. Our current landlord hates snakes and honestly doesn't like that I have them...the new landlord, when I asked about how lenient the pet policy is, told me I can have a bajillion snakes so long as I take pictures to share with everyone and even showed me how the room the snakes will be in is already rigged for reptiles. Turns out the landlord used to be really big into lizards and geckos! :D The new landlord is fine with me having as many as I want, and it's worth it to me to have adequate space.

Yes that's right, I'm changing my living arrangement for cats and pythons. :)

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Now you sell out great..
Invested over the last three years

Roughly
$1,421.00 invested
- $375.00 total value of animals sold at todays prices with no shipping
Leaves you
-$1046.00 in the hole

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Though having a snake you bred yourself, to me, is priceless. :) Yeah I could probably have not bought any of my snakes and instead spent all that money on a Super Mojave hatchling...but it wouldn't be the same. ;)