Sad Life for a Sav

Went to the OC Fair in Costa Mesa, CA this weekend and saw the below situation at a Reptile "Petting" Zoo being put on by Prehistoric Pets through their Jurassic Zoo group. Granted many of these animals end up in situations like this due to un-educated pet owners but this is teaching and showing young kids and adults that this is how the "professionals" keep their animals and ultimately make educating them when they do end up on the forums that much harder.

I'm still figuring out how/if I want to address this situation and am open to ideas from anyone, especially if you know or deal with the store directly and might be able to address this in a friendly manner.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2837108_n.jpg

They also have a Black Throat and a Salvator on display in similar set ups... if I remember correctly the 4+' salvator's cage was maybe 3' high... the fair continues through august 15 if anyone is in the area and wants to see for themselves.

It doesn't seem any worse than what I've seen reptiles in at shows. Your picture also doesn't show the entire size of the enclosure.

Although I don't like prehistoric pets, most display cages don't depict what the actual husbandry requirements are of the displayed animal. Did you go up to them and ask them about the requirements of this animal? Maybe people who are interested in the species will get appropiate information if they inquire. But for the most part, the animal is on display to make people want to buy it. Most display cages aren't meeting husbandry requirements at a show.

I agree with you, but I would also wonder if this is a poorly set up "temporary display" cage. I'm not trying to excuse the horrendous conditions, but it could still not be the "full" setup for them.

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t doesn't seem any worse than what I've seen reptiles in at shows. Your picture also doesn't show the entire size of the enclosure.

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Most animals at shows are there to be sold, then put in permanent enclosures. An even animals there for show aren't in their permanent enclosure. They are there for a day or two and then go home to their real enclosure.

Though I do agree there isn't a complete picture of the enclosure. I know prehistoric pets is a pretty big breeder and produces some great animals. Im not sure the whole story is here. I haven't heard anything bad about prehistoric pets and I dont want to jump to any conclusions. Though the sav cage could use some changing.

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Originally Posted by redstormlax12

I haven't heard anything bad about prehistoric pets and I dont want to jump to any conclusions.

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Really? I hate to be a negative Nancy, but search their name on here and watch some of Jay's YT videos. They're a mass breeder, but they're not as good as others.

It's was an educational display for children so yes has to be temporary, despite it looking really similar to the ones at their shop. I understand it can't be a full display of the animals husbandry all though the shape and condition of the animal can. Plus the display is/will be up from july 16th - aug 15th.

But for an educational display I had to wonder about things especially when the tag said:

Savannah Monitor - Varanus albigularis
6 feet
I am fairly Robust
carnivore

maybe I have my facts wrong but shouldn't the tag say:

Savannah Monitor - Varanus exanthematicus
3-4 feet
I am generally a muscular stocky predator, but as you can see in captivity I usually end up being fat because people think I am a carnivore when in fact I am an insectivore. I also like to dig into deep soil to get exercise and escape the dry heat staying hydrated.

After posting that i have heard nothing bad i remembered that i had. Ive heard of them cutting clutches extremely early and also scooping out snakes.

Has anyone else noticed how dehydrated and morbidly obese that Sav looks? Regardless if that is a temporary display or its actual enclosure, that is a very sick animal that is obviously receaving horrible care. :(

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Has anyone else noticed how dehydrated and morbidly obese that Sav looks? Regardless if that is a temporary display or its actual enclosure, that is a very sick animal that is obviously receaving horrible care.

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Wow I totally looked over that. We were all so focused on the husbandry that we didn't look at the effects of the husbandry. He could use to lose almost half his body weight.

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Originally Posted by annostic

It's was an educational display for children so yes has to be temporary, despite it looking really similar to the ones at their shop. I understand it can't be a full display of the animals husbandry all though the shape and condition of the animal can. Plus the display is/will be up from july 16th - aug 15th.

But for an educational display I had to wonder about things especially when the tag said:

Savannah Monitor - Varanus albigularis
6 feet
I am fairly Robust
carnivore

maybe I have my facts wrong but shouldn't the tag say:

Savannah Monitor - Varanus exanthematicus
3-4 feet
I am generally a muscular stocky predator, but as you can see in captivity I usually end up being fat because people think I am a carnivore when in fact I am an insectivore. I also like to dig into deep soil to get exercise and escape the dry heat staying hydrated.

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When I looked at the picture, of course the first thing I noticed were the errors in spelling/classification. Except, annostic, you spelled "Savannah" correctly, whereas they did not. I then looked down to see which species was actually in the enclosure, and found some kind of lumpy thing that once was an exanthematicus, though now is a far cry from what I would call a healthy, happy one :( :mad:

Unfortunately, the only reason those animals are there is to make people money, and greed can transform one's love of animals into something much different...

Chris

99% of the cage setups that PP has at shows and fairs are just for displaying the animal only, not the proper setup, but if you ask them they should give you all the proper requirements for the animal (at least they did for me). Another thing you have to remember is that a majority of the animals that are brought to these educational shows are rescue's (with the exception of their high end stuff and unique species) that were turned over to them by a previous owner and were probably in worse shape when they first got to the store which could explain the obesity.
I do know that they swap out animals pretty often when doing long shows like the Fair because it takes a toll on the animal after a while. There have been a lot of complaints about mites and dirty cages at their store, but with all the cages, animals and rescues they have its hard to keep up with all the cleaning and selling at the same time, I personally believe that they are under staffed a lot of the time.
Don't you hate it when you clean a cage and 5 minutes later another animal in a different cage needs cleaning and at the same time you have to watch your kid or make dinner or just busy in general, it's not like you are neglecting the animal you just need to get some other stuff done first so what’s another 30 minute wait to clean the cage; now multiply that X 100 and add a couple more animals PER cage with only a couple more people to help and a store to run and customers to help and answer questions for, that’s about what PP has going. It’s sad but that’s how it goes, if it was cost effective for big reptile breeders to keep all their animals they were pets, I like to think they would, but in the end it is a BUISNESS and you need to save where you can.
PP has some awesome animals but I haven't been there since they started charging to get in and I don't see myself going back anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Aztec4mia

99% of the cage setups that PP has at shows and fairs are just for displaying the animal only, not the proper setup, but if you ask them they should give you all the proper requirements for the animal (at least they did for me).

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I understand this display is for display only, despite it looking exactly like their instore stuff... this animal was in bad shape way before it was placed in this cage. Obesity doesn't happen over night.

As for proper husbandry I can speak from personal experience that they don't ... and reading the sign on the cage is evidence to support that.

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Another thing you have to remember is that a majority of the animals that are brought to these educational shows are rescue's (with the exception of their high end stuff and unique species) that were turned over to them by a previous owner and were probably in worse shape when they first got to the store which could explain the obesity.

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Why would anyone take an obese, dehydrated animal to show anywhere... let alone to a fair with hundreds of kids... that's not a rescue that is a death sentence.

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Don't you hate it when you clean a cage and 5 minutes later another animal in a different cage needs cleaning and at the same time you have to watch your kid or make dinner or just busy in general, it's not like you are neglecting the animal you just need to get some other stuff done first so what’s another 30 minute wait to clean the cage;

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No sorry I can't say that I can. I try not to buy more then I can take care of and when I have worked in a business situation with animals we simply called people in to work an extra shift or you pulled overtime. Animals aren't widgets the last time I checked... maybe things were different there because we had state inspectors and guest relations to deal with also.

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Except, annostic, you spelled "Savannah" correctly, whereas they did not.

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Thanks Chris, and to think I'm a horrible speller... huh go figure?

Any ideas or suggestions on combating this? sooner or later we'll all be dealing with the products of exhibits like this on one of the various forums... and it would be nice if they at least got the information right... let alone add some details.... maybe a "this is what you don't want!!!" clause.

You already wrote up the information for it, remove the pessimistic comments and rewrite the information for them. Write out/quote proper husbandry information for them, include links wherever possible. Then email it to them. If conditions havent changed in a couple weeks and the animal doesnt look like it's getting healthier, go in, speak with whatever manager is there, talk to them, give them a printed version of the e-mail, and then hopefully that will get things changed.

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Originally Posted by annostic

I understand this display is for display only, despite it looking exactly like their instore stuff... Agreed this animal was in bad shape way before it was placed in this cage. Obesity doesn't happen over night. Agreed, but it doesn't mean they didn't get it that way, unlikely as it seems.

As for proper husbandry I can speak from personal experience that they don't ... and reading the sign on the cage is evidence to support that. I can too and I have seen them at both in their good and bad days.


Why would anyone take an obese, dehydrated animal to show anywhere... let alone to a fair with hundreds of kids... that's not a rescue that is a death sentence. You got me, I have no clue why but they do.


No sorry I can't say that I can. I try not to buy more then I can take care of and when I have worked in a business situation with animals we simply called people in to work an extra shift or you pulled overtime. Animals aren't widgets the last time I checked... maybe things were different there because we had state inspectors and guest relations to deal with also. they do have alot of animals and like i said they are under staffed for sure even with all their workers there, As for me I have a rather small collection but I have other priorities in my life that trump standing by my cages 24/7 waiting for my snakes to poop and cleaning it up right away; as much as I would like to, for that I am envious that you have the time to do that.:)




Thanks Chris, and to think I'm a horrible speller... huh go figure?

Any ideas or suggestions on combating this? sooner or later we'll all be dealing with the products of exhibits like this on one of the various forums... and it would be nice if they at least got the information right... let alone add some details.... maybe a "this is what you don't want!!!" clause.I agree with Oxylepy on that one

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