Snake refuse F/T and live, what can I do?

This is my new and first snake ever, a Ball Python, and when i Bought it, the seller (in a general pet store) told me that it never refused a meal.

after 3 weeks of no-eating, I went back to the petshop, and they told me that my snake was part of a "batch" of 3 snake they received, and no one of them had ever eat some thing, (well, in fact the seller lied to me) so they shipped the 2 other back....

what can i try!!! I really love my snake!! :P

Step 1: Leave it alone, for 2 weeks. Pretend it does not exist, you dont own it, all there is is a tub/aquarium with a dish of water in it that you have to change. There is no snake in there.

Step 2: Offer food.

Step 3: Wait a week and offer again.

Then just keep waiting a week and offering. If this doesnt work within another month, you may want to get a-hold of some ASFs, frozen or live, either way.

Also, what are your temps, humidity, size of the snake, size of enclosure, etc?

Wait and keep offering weekly.

Also down grade the size of the cage to one half its size and leave snake in there till it begins to eat well.

I have a female albino back on a 3 month fast at 950grams and hasnt lost any weight, they hit points where they just wont eat.

Hi,

First step is to have a read through the caresheet and see if that raises any questions or possible thigns to try. :)


dr del

I have to disagree with all the post so far.

1) You should handle your python at least once every 2-3 days after purchasing him.

2) Try feeding in a separate cage at night and try only thawed mice and heat it up with a hair dryer.. Try feeding him once a week and if he does not take it than try live mice. I would not try every day one than the other.

3) Size of the cage make no sense... Python are born in the Wild and have an extremely large area where they are found. If size really was an issue I do not think they would have survived and they would be extinct ..

4) If your python refuses food after 4 weeks I would take him to an exotic vet and they may need to force feed him. Once they get older they can go much longer with food. Do not give up.. You snake will eat when it is ready. I have a captive breed python who is also picky and she goes 4 weeks at times without eating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Samara

I have to disagree with all the post so far.

1) You should handle your python at least once every 2-3 days after purchasing him.

2) Try feeding in a separate cage at night and try only thawed mice and heat it up with a hair dryer.. Try feeding him once a week and if he does not take it than try live mice. I would not try every day one than the other.

3) Size of the cage make no sense... Python are born in the Wild and have an extremely large area where they are found. If size really was an issue I do not think they would have survived and they would be extinct ..

4) If your python refuses food after 4 weeks I would take him to an exotic vet and they may need to force feed him. Once they get older they can go much longer with food. Do not give up.. You snake will eat when it is ready. I have a captive breed python who is also picky and she goes 4 weeks at times without eating.

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I think you should take a look at the care sheets too. You have much to learn young grasshopper

1. No you should NEVER handle a snake when first buying it. They need accumulation periods to adjust ot the new smells.

2. Feed in the enclosure, moving from one cage to another is enough to cause refusals. Feeding in their home is enough to keep them relaxed and comfortable to eat.3

3.Size of the cage makes HUGE sense, ball pythons are not free roaming snakes in the wild of Africa. They live in SMALL tight holes like termite mounds in the ground. They barely come out and spend 80%+ of their life hiding.

4. 4 weeks is nothing to make a vet trip for, seriously what kind of advice is this. Sounds like a petco employee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I think you should take a look at the care sheets too. You have much to learn young grasshopper

1. No you should NEVER handle a snake when first buying it. They need accumulation periods to adjust ot the new smells.

2. Feed in the enclosure, moving from one cage to another is enough to cause refusals. Feeding in their home is enough to keep them relaxed and comfortable to eat.3

3.Size of the cage makes HUGE sense, ball pythons are not free roaming snakes in the wild of Africa. They live in SMALL tight holes like termite mounds in the ground. They barely come out and spend 80%+ of their life hiding.

4. 4 weeks is nothing to make a vet trip for, seriously what kind of advice is this. Sounds like a petco employee

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Hogwash....I have 16 snakes; balls and boas and they all get handle regularly....starting on day one. I also feed each on the day they get here and most, not all, have readily taken the meal. They ALL eat in a separate feeding tub and there has been zero negative consequence to doing so.

I do agree that balls like the safety and security of a smaller enclosure than you would think.

Hi,

Then the ball pythons you have were not as nervous as many we see.

If you do buy one of the more nervous ones in the future bear in mind the advice about a settling in period and in cage feeding. :gj:

Since the OP already has a snake that is not eating then I really don't think this is the thread to argue about it however.


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izoid

Hogwash....I have 16 snakes; balls and boas and they all get handle regularly....starting on day one. I also feed each on the day they get here and most, not all, have readily taken the meal. They ALL eat in a separate feeding tub and there has been zero negative consequence to doing so.

I do agree that balls like the safety and security of a smaller enclosure than you would think.

---

Boas are completely different than balls. They are garbage disposals and eat anything.

Also feeding same day they arrive is up to you, especially if coming fro ma reputable source it wont harm anything. But is not recommended to someone just getting into the hobby still learning the basics to husbandry.

Some to feed in different tubs and while its fine there's no way i would do that with many snakes i have. Too much time when i can just open tub toss in and done.

Handling a snake is up to you, they do NOT like it no matter what you make yourself believe, they TOLERATE it to an extent. You must know how to read their body language and breathing to know when they have had enough contact you. Snakes are to be admired from their enclosures, their not a cat or dog and wants our companionship.

Edit- To add, what works for one WILL NOT work for another, advice we give is generalized on what we know works, its up to you to fine tune it.

You should NEVER be handling a snake that is not eating.


To the OP, this is a snip-it of my feeding tips page. There is A LOT of info on there, and I don't want to take up the entire page. It's the same steps I follow when I have a tough feeder. The two most important things: never handle a bp that isn't eating, and put it in a smaller tank/tub or at the very least fill it with crumpled newspaper or fake plants.

http://www.slitherinsisters.com/feeding-tricks.php

Feeding can be a bit tricky, especially with baby bps. They haven't quite figured everything out and could be stressed from traveling, being at pet store, or being in a tank/tub they don't feel secure in. If your bp isn't eating the problem probably lies with his feeling secure if everything else is good. Also remember that if your snake is not eating you should not be handling it. Don't even look at it!!! I also have a "things to remember" at the bottom of this page that I suggest reading through.

Take these steps and see if it helps and only offer food once a week to minimize the stress:


1st Week
Make sure his hide is snug for him, a big hide is a big problem. He should have to ball up or squish himself a little inside of it. They like to feel snug!

Continue to offer a prey item once a week. If you are feeding frozen thawed (and warmed up!) leave it in overnight. A few of my snakes won't eat frozen thawed till about 2 in the morning when I put the F/T in at 9pm. If you are feeding live you can leave it in for 10-30 minutes ONLY if it is well watered and fed. If you got it from the pet store I suggest setting up a cage and feeding and watering it yourself before putting it in the tank. Pinkies and hoppers are fine left in the tank/tub for the night because they don't have teeth, if you aren't sure, check for teeth it's simple.

You can also try putting the bp in a paper sack with a pinky or a hopper overnight (be sure that the hopper doesn't have teeth).

I've heard of dipping them in chicken broth, but I've never had success with it, nor have I ever heard of anyone having success with it.


2nd Week
Add some crumpled newspaper to his tank/tub to help fill in the open spaces. If you're looking for a nicer look you could add fake plants to fill the space, but keep in mind right now the main issue is getting him to eat, not tank aesthetics.

Continue to offer whatever your snake was eating before, ONCE a week.


3rd Week
Try a different food item. If you are feeding frozen thawed offer live. If you've done that and it didn't work offer a different rodent than you've been trying (mouse/rat). You will most likely have more luck with live than F/T.

My advice at this point would be to offer live mice once a week. If your ball python is still very small you might be able to find some very small adults, or if you're lucky hopper mice. I suggest mice because they are smelly and move a lot more than rats.


4th Week
If these don't work and you still have your snake in a tank you may want to move him to a shoebox size tub if the he is still a baby/juvenile/subadult. If not, you can continue to try the tank, and switch later on if you wish. However, if your snake has been eating regularly before, 6+ feedings, and you haven't changed his tank around other than the advice I offered earlier you may not want to change it. It's one of those, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

If you move your bp to a tub you will want to use a heat pad to warm 1/3 of the tub. If you use the lid you do not have to put holes in the tub because those tubs are not air tight. You will have to watch and make sure the humidity doesn't get out of control. I also suggest putting a towel over the tub, or taping construction paper to the outside of the tub to help block out the light and make your bp feel more secure.

Continue with a live mouse/hopper once a week from this point.


5th-8th Week
A recap: you can leave the mouse in for 10-30 minutes at a time as long as the mouse is well fed and watered. You do run the risk of the mouse eating your snake if it is malnourished. If you got the mouse from the pet store, set up a tank or cage for it, and feed and water it before putting it in with your snake.

You should leave the room during this time and turn off the lights. Some snakes are very shy and will not eat with someone in the room. You can try the paper sack during these weeks with a pinky or hopper again if you wish. Remember that nothing with teeth should be left in for more than 30 minutes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I think you should take a look at the care sheets too. You have much to learn young grasshopper

1. No you should NEVER handle a snake when first buying it. They need accumulation periods to adjust ot the new smells.

2. Feed in the enclosure, moving from one cage to another is enough to cause refusals. Feeding in their home is enough to keep them relaxed and comfortable to eat.3

3.Size of the cage makes HUGE sense, ball pythons are not free roaming snakes in the wild of Africa. They live in SMALL tight holes like termite mounds in the ground. They barely come out and spend 80%+ of their life hiding.

4. 4 weeks is nothing to make a vet trip for, seriously what kind of advice is this. Sounds like a petco employee

---

1) Where did you get your D.V.M at???? You can read a care sheet guide great for you young grasshopper.... It is guide only... I have handled my pythons from DAY 1 and I am pretty sure my pythons have been taken care of better than most exotic pets.

2) There is a debate on where to feed your snake. Some people think that by feeding in their cages it will increase the chance of the python attempting to strike when we put our hands inside of the cages. There is also the change of the snake getting their bedding caught inside their mouths when feeding for the people who do not use news papers.

3) Tell me this.... Where is your study to prove this young grasshopper? Have you ever put a micro chip inside a wild python and followed it? OOOOH yes you read it online so you must at lease have a high school education... Having a smaller cages make no sense in less your only breeding the animal.... Which than they are no longer pets.. No matter what anyone says. Their living conditions are less than desirable.... We should put the breeders in the same conditions and see how they like it...

4) When you have a young python that is not eating you should take it to the VET... When you have an older python it is not that big of a deal. You must remember he also said he did not eat at the pet store... The python needs to be checked out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Samara

I have to disagree with all the post so far.

1) You should handle your python at least once every 2-3 days after purchasing him.

2) Try feeding in a separate cage at night and try only thawed mice and heat it up with a hair dryer.. Try feeding him once a week and if he does not take it than try live mice. I would not try every day one than the other.

3) Size of the cage make no sense... Python are born in the Wild and have an extremely large area where they are found. If size really was an issue I do not think they would have survived and they would be extinct ..

4) If your python refuses food after 4 weeks I would take him to an exotic vet and they may need to force feed him. Once they get older they can go much longer with food. Do not give up.. You snake will eat when it is ready. I have a captive breed python who is also picky and she goes 4 weeks at times without eating.

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1.) All that would do is stress the snake out more.

2.) I have to disagree since he is not eating you want to feed him in his enclosure were he feels more secure. You don't think that moving the snake out of his cage to another enclosure while stressed wouldn't cause refusal of the food?

3.) Down sizing the cage with Ball Pythons that don't eat has worked before. Also I'm not sure if your aware of this but Ball Pythons live in tight burrows under ground in Africa and only really come out to eat and breed.

4.) Force Feeding I heard can be dangerous so if I heard the truth I wouldn't recommend this.

I also suggest you go do some more research on Ball Pythons before you start giving advice.

I speak from experience when I say that leaving snakes alone aids them in feeding. When adding new snakes to my collection it has worked perfectly for me. I only have 4 right now so we'll see when I get more if it continues to work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Samara

1) Where did you get your D.V.M at???? You can read a care sheet guide great for you young grasshopper.... It is guide only... I have handled my pythons from DAY 1 and I am pretty sure my pythons have been taken care of better than most exotic pets.

2) There is a debate on where to feed your snake. Some people think that by feeding in their cages it will increase the chance of the python attempting to strike when we put our hands inside of the cages. There is also the change of the snake getting their bedding caught inside their mouths when feeding for the people who do not use news papers.

3) Tell me this.... Where is your study to prove this young grasshopper? Have you ever put a micro chip inside a wild python and followed it? OOOOH yes you read it online so you must at lease have a high school education... Having a smaller cages make no sense in less your only breeding the animal.... Which than they are no longer pets.. No matter what anyone says. Their living conditions are less than desirable.... We should put the breeders in the same conditions and see how they like it...

4) When you have a young python that is not eating you should take it to the VET... When you have an older python it is not that big of a deal. You must remember he also said he did not eat at the pet store... The python needs to be checked out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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1.) Do you understand how annoying and immature it sounds when you keep saying "Young Grasshopper" I'm also pretty sure he is smarter then you are about Ball Pythons, especially since you already proved that to us.

2.) Putting the snake in a separate enclosure to feed won't hurt your snake, but doing it while your snake is not eating is not a wise choice and drastically decreases your chances of the BP eating. However if he is in a small tight enclosure he will feel more secure so there is a higher chance of the BP eating.

3.) Its actually a known fact by allot of people how Ball Pythons live in the wild. Also how are BPs not pets if you breed them?

4.) I agree the Ball Python needs to be checked out by a Vet but the owner hasn't tried enough stuff to try and get the Ball Python to eat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Samara

1) Where did you get your D.V.M at???? You can read a care sheet guide great for you young grasshopper.... It is guide only... I have handled my pythons from DAY 1 and I am pretty sure my pythons have been taken care of better than most exotic pets.

2) There is a debate on where to feed your snake. Some people think that by feeding in their cages it will increase the chance of the python attempting to strike when we put our hands inside of the cages. There is also the change of the snake getting their bedding caught inside their mouths when feeding for the people who do not use news papers.

3) Tell me this.... Where is your study to prove this young grasshopper? Have you ever put a micro chip inside a wild python and followed it? OOOOH yes you read it online so you must at lease have a high school education... Having a smaller cages make no sense in less your only breeding the animal.... Which than they are no longer pets.. No matter what anyone says. Their living conditions are less than desirable.... We should put the breeders in the same conditions and see how they like it...

4) When you have a young python that is not eating you should take it to the VET... When you have an older python it is not that big of a deal. You must remember he also said he did not eat at the pet store... The python needs to be checked out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Wow your How old now and you talk as mature as a hs student.

Do what you want but before you go around telling everyone your way is the best and only way to do things considering you only been keeping a snake for what few months. I been keeping snakes for 15 years so i dont need to read care sheets.

And a young snake not eating does not need to go to the vet, 99.999% of the time a snake not eating when young is due to housing problems.


And for you to insult someone you know nothing about to say i have a HS education, i mean seriously how stupid are you. Your are absolutely Childish in this thread and shows how far your threads will go. Keep it up you will only push people away from helping you when you need it. But wait you should know a lot since you have one snake.

:colbert::colbert:

Damn boys, didnt want you to contest about my question!!

Well, I read all of your NICE answers, and now my problem is that I dont know where to start!!! ahah....

So first of all, I brang you some picture of my setup+snake!

-here is the enclosure!
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3365/photo405xo.jpg

-here is the snake himself!
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3188/photo042d.jpg

-Here is the enclosure for feeding! (with his lunch that refuse once again, guess Ill have to bring the mouse back to the petshop!! (for the second time)
(I build her a home for the time Ill be stuck with it)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8892/photo069t.jpg

and next, some info!
The enclosure is 24x18x18, actually, with the light open, my thermo says 29.0 Celsius. Where theres a Red X is a Kleenex box, for hidding. (remember someone here told me to put a really small hidding place (ill have to change that tonight)

And the first mouse I tried was like pink/gray, now this one is 2 color, Ill try a black next time (I read that they can have color preference)

and for the enclosure size, versus snake that can be stressed, well, this snake is always in plant, in the tree, on the rock(that not get heat I didnt plugged it) in my hand he do not stay in ball, he move around, well, he REALLY did not look stressed, he look really confortable seriously, well, and thanks for all your answers bp fan! :P

ahh almost forgot, the UV neon is no more plug, because a lot of people told me that it was completely uneccessary.

Ty very much.
Max.

Glad to see you removed the UV light.

First off, do you leave all that stuff in it's feeding enclosure? Most people who I have seen that feed in separate enclosures have very very simple ones (sheet of newsprint and that is all, no water, food, block).

BPs seem to do well with tight fitting hides, heck some of them will go into a hide too small and end up with their fat butts hanging out the side, and seem perfectly content like that. So glad to hear you're switching that out.

How is your humidity doing? With the heat lamp on top and room for light to get through on top like that I am guessing it's all screen up there, meaning humidity could be an issue.

How are you heating it? What are your temps? Do you have one of those acurite hygrometer/thermometers?

I'd suggest putting 2 or 3 hides in there for it.

Some people dont like big displays because your snake probably isnt going to use it much and it will be harder to clan, but, personally, I dont see anything wrong with it so long as your snake can thermoregulate, the humidity is right, and it feels secure. The first and last can be handled by a couple hides and humidity is just one of those issues you need to figure out. Foil/plastic wrap tends to be used to keep humidity in.

Oh, and with a display tank if you want to do something cool you could put a hide up in the branch, like a little plastic birdhouse kind of thing, your snake may end up using it and it's an interesting idea. Perhaps a circle of wood with a hide on it and maybe some vines around the side so it looks like it's in the leaves and attached to the branch.

First of all, Samara's info couldn't be further from being correct so do yourself a favor an ignore everything he said...

People having been studying animals for a LONG time genius and just because its online doesn't mean it's not real information. Just because he didn't do the study himself doesn't mean anything. There are scientist with PHD's I'm sure that would back us all up here, and you would feel awful stupid. Let me ask you this. Why would an animal that is preyed on quite a bit travel the African landscape trying to get eaten? Well here are they facts...they don't! It makes sense too...They cram themselves into small spaces to stay hidden from predators only coming out to find a meal, to mate, or to find a new hiding spot. Not exploring. They don't have the proper brain to even comprehend exploring for the sake of it. The only thing there worried about is their survival. Not how big their tank is...gimme a break.

Get yourself a 10 gallon tank, and put some background around it. I use black paper. Gives it a more secure feel I think. Aquariums can leave snakes feeling exposed which causes them to stop feeding.
Thermostat
UTH-under the tank heater
thermometer with probe/normal thermometer (ambient temps)
Cypress Mulch
Small Hide

That tank isn't the best for a BP to be honest. There beautiful enclosures for certain species but not ball's. Especially this size. Maybe use when hes a bit bigger? Also tubs work great! Cheap and easy to clean.

Id personally use the feeding tub for his main tub for now till he eats and grows out of it.

The other one is fine for an adult male. But for that lil guy its shown to be too much for him and will result in a lot of refusals.

Hi,

Just to say guys we need to dial back the name calling aspect of this - it's ok to disagree with one another about the husbandry but we need to stay the right side of the T.O.S while doing so.


dr del

I am not even gonna enter in a debate with someone that offers erroneous advices based on their short experience with 2 animals :rolleyes: so let's get to the point.

Here is the main problem I see here, the enclosure is not adequate for a young animal that size.

With young BP (this is BP we are talking about) you need to keep them tight, warm and stress free.

At that age they eat voraciously so if they don't there is an issue, in most cases with new owners it is often husbandry related.

I advice you to downsize the enclosure, get a tub 6 quarts or 15 quarts at the most, use aspen as bedding, offer one or 2 hides (depending on the tub size you choose) for a BP that size plastic flowerpot saucers make great hides, provide temps between 78-82 and 88-92 provide 50% humidity,

Leave your BP alone for a week (NO HANDLING). This is very important.

Once a week has passed offer a live hopper/small mouse (depending on his girth size).

Leave the mouse near the enclosure 1 hour before feeding time this will help entice your BP to eat.

Feed your BP in his enclosure and no feeding in the enclosure does not make them mistake your hand for food this is an old myth, feeding outside the enclosure can however cause enough stress to lead to refusal and it also make you being more susceptible to get tag by placing your BP back in his enclosure while still in feeding mode.