new beardie question

I got a baby beardie over the weekend and the guy that sold him to me gave me a setup as well. a 40gal breeder tank lighting and a couple dozon crickets. I now realize that the light he gave me does not give off uvb rays. Will the couple of days without the uvb hurt my beardie? I should be able to get the right light in a couple days. will that be ok? Thanks for any help you can give!

First off I think the tank is too big. With a juvie I would have no bigger then a 20gal long, so you can have your hot side and cool side. A couple days is no big deal on light as long as its only a couple days.

A couple days should be ok especially if you're dusting the crickets and salad with calcium with D3. Does he have a heat bulb? He's just missing the uva/b if I read correctly right?

yes he has a heatbulb it just doesnt give off uvb. the guy told me he would send me the right one but he isnt responding to emails or phone calls now so im guessing he isnt sending it. So as long as im dusting the crickets with vitamins with D3 he will be ok for a couple days?

also is it ok to put a water dish in with him or do I just need to keep misting him until he is bigger? I was told the babies can drowned if there is standing water in the cage!

I keep a shollow one with my young one. Although I don't think i've ever seen him drink out of it. You never know, maybe he only does it when i'm not looking.

I was told on this very site about a week ago that calcium with D3 is good without a uv bulb. While the UV bulb is good, they still won't produce as much D3 as they would in the natural sun. I'd link to it, but I'm not sure which one it was in... Nor can I remember who said it now that I'm trying to think... >.<

We keep a shallow water dish in our beardie's tank. I've never seen her drink out of hers but during her weekly baths she likes to lick the water off her nose so def keep misting him. Though today while at the pet store I did see one of the beardie's there shove his face in the water dish he was already standing in and take a big ol' drink.

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Originally Posted by Paradox81

First off I think the tank is too big. With a juvie I would have no bigger then a 20gal long, so you can have your hot side and cool side. A couple days is no big deal on light as long as its only a couple days.

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Actually, depending on what you consider a Juvie, a 40 gallon is the perfect size. I think only babys should be housed in 20 gallons because of their growth rate.

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Originally Posted by maverickgtr

A couple days should be ok especially if you're dusting the crickets and salad with calcium with D3. Does he have a heat bulb? He's just missing the uva/b if I read correctly right?

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Well, the thing about that is they cannot soak up the Nutrients without the UVB, so with out it passes right through them. That is the leading cause of MBD.

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Originally Posted by monty's dad

yes he has a heatbulb it just doesnt give off uvb. the guy told me he would send me the right one but he isnt responding to emails or phone calls now so im guessing he isnt sending it. So as long as im dusting the crickets with vitamins with D3 he will be ok for a couple days?

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A few days wont hurt him at all, if youd like you can supervise him outside for 30 minutes a day, that is all he needs. My opinion is to not get a UVB bulb from this guy as it is, my bet is that he wouldnt even send the right kind. There is only a few bulbs that work right, ask us if you need help finding a bulb before you get the wrong one.

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Originally Posted by monty's dad

also is it ok to put a water dish in with him or do I just need to keep misting him until he is bigger? I was told the babies can drowned if there is standing water in the cage!

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There is the possibility of any small reptile drowning in a water bowl, but its not likely at all. None of my dragons would even touch a water bowl, so I misted and gave baths to give them water.

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Originally Posted by maverickgtr

I was told on this very site about a week ago that calcium with D3 is good without a uv bulb. While the UV bulb is good, they still won't produce as much D3 as they would in the natural sun. I'd link to it, but I'm not sure which one it was in... Nor can I remember who said it now that I'm trying to think... >.<
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That info is wrong. They have to have A uvb bulb to soak up the D3. Are you sure that is what they said? The bearded dragon section here is very small and not used often, if it was said a week ago then that thread should still be close to the top of the page.



Anywho, order some more crickets if you have not already, a couple dozen crickets should last a healthy dragon no more than two days.

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Originally Posted by maverickgtr

I was told on this very site about a week ago that calcium with D3 is good without a uv bulb. While the UV bulb is good, they still won't produce as much D3 as they would in the natural sun. I'd link to it, but I'm not sure which one it was in... Nor can I remember who said it now that I'm trying to think... >.<

.

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Did you actually read this??

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

I use repti cal without D3. It comes in a white dish with green lettering. If you are using a UVB/UVA bulb then you should not use D3. If you have trouble finding it then just go online and buy it.

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That is actually incorrect as well, unless your tank is outside they need calcium with D3.

Spot on advice from Matt, same he gave me when I got mine. I don't do the water bowl either. I just mist them when I mist the cham. I should be getting an auto-mister up soon.

I thought the uvb only got them to produce the d3 and they needed the d3 to absorb the calcium? I know they still need the uvb lights.

Gah! I meant to say if you take them outside for sunlight! I found the quote it was a few down from the one you quoted. I'm so sorry!

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You want to give them calcium with D3 unless they get regular exposure to direct sunlight. D3 helps them absorb calcium the lights you buy including MVB don't allow them to produce as much D3 as direct sun light. If they get direct sunlight on a regular basis then you can get the calcium w/out D3 for them. I believe that as long as they get a couple of hours of natural sunlight a week you can get away with/out D3 but I have to double check. I have always given all my dragons calcium with D3 even when I let them outside in spring and summer months with no problems...

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Originally Posted by maverickgtr

I thought the uvb only got them to produce the d3 and they needed the d3 to absorb the calcium? I know they still need the uvb lights.

Gah! I meant to say if you take them outside for sunlight! I found the quote it was a few down from the one you quoted. I'm so sorry!

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Im not 100% sure on this, but I do think that they need the D3 that is added to the Calcium, to obsorb the Calcium, and the Uvb ( BTW UVA is not important to look for, all bulbs produce it reptile or not, and they need UVB as it is) bulbs do not produce strong enough Rays to make enough or any D3 in the dragon, so you add the D3 and then the Calcium is obsorbed making the Added D3 and the Uvb bulb nessesary. That is why when you take them outside the sun gives them the D3 they need, hence not needing any supplements with d3 in it, while outside.

That is also why if you feed Pheonix worms you need to make sure you are giving them D3 somehow as well if you do not give them Calcium.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, I knew something was off with that, no one would say that no Uvb is needed along with Calcium and D3.

Forgetting the whole "if you take them outside" bit really changes the meaning of the whole post... haha figures the one time I don't preview a post I mess it up...

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Originally Posted by maverickgtr

Forgetting the whole "if you take them outside" bit really changes the meaning of the whole post... haha figures the one time I don't preview a post I mess it up...

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Its fine, everyone messes up sometimes. I do it more than average myself :P I just wanted to correct that so you ( If you had thought that was true) or anyone reading it does not get confused.

wow thats alot of info im not sure I understand. So as long as im taking the little guy outside for about 30 min a day and dusting the crickets with D3 I will be ok for right now? did I get that correctly? lol My brain is like a sponge..but its a tiny one!!

Until you get a bulb he'll be fine if you take him outside every day. For how long, I don't know. And you should be dusting crickets with calcium with d3 powder 5-6x per week and a multivitamin 2-3x a week for a juvie.

Here's a good caresheet I use.

And here's an awesome site for what you can feed your beardie.

And you'll need more crickets very soon. A dozen only lasted my beardie when he was a juvie for a day or two.

yeah I just got about 30 more crickets today which puts me around 50 or so total. Thanks for all the help guys!!

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Originally Posted by monty's dad

yeah I just got about 30 more crickets today which puts me around 50 or so total. Thanks for all the help guys!!

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What size are the crickets? Just make sure that they are no longer than the width between your dragons eyes because of impaction issues. ID suggest ordering crickets online, its less than $25 shipped for 1000. 50 crickets could actually be eaten in one day by these garbage disposals.

Matt if you are using a type of bulb like PowerSun...that gives the heat and the sun....then you don't use D3!! At least that is what I was told???

"You want to give them calcium with D3 unless they get regular exposure to direct sunlight. D3 helps them absorb calcium the lights you buy including MVB don't allow them to produce as much D3 as direct sun light. If they get direct sunlight on a regular basis then you can get the calcium w/out D3 for them. I believe that as long as they get a couple of hours of natural sunlight a week you can get away with/out D3 but I have to double check. I have always given all my dragons calcium with D3 even when I let them outside in spring and summer months with no problems... "

This was the quote that I had left re: calcium supplements... Maybe I should of worded it better... You should be using calcium with D3(no phosphorus) 5-6 times a week and multi vitamin 1-2 times a week... The only time you can get away with using calcium with out D3 if your dragons are kept outside with daily exsposure to direct sunlight or with a Quality MVB... Sorry for any confusion...

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Matt if you are using a type of bulb like PowerSun...that gives the heat and the sun....then you don't use D3!! At least that is what I was told???

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This depends on the amount of UVB your bulb is producing and the only way to know for sure is with a UVB light meter. I use mega ray's for all my adults and still given them one feeding a week dusted with calcium w/d3 and use calcium w/out D3 for all other feeding's I dust. This is after using bulb for a year, when the bulb is new just use the non D3 calcium. This is directly from the reptileUV site(mega ray).


"Almost all living creatures have the ability to develop vitamin D3 from UVB exposure and do so automatically when they are exposed to ultraviolet. Many reptiles develop all their D3 from the exposure to UVB in their natural habitat. The natural production of D3 under UV light is a self limiting process. Because our Mega-Ray® mimics a piece of real sunshine, we strongly recommend not using any D3 supplements. Our extensive blood serum 25-OH-vitaminD3 testing has shown that supplementing D3 is completely unnecessary while proper UV levels are maintained. It should also be noted that when normal D3 levels are present in the blood stream, the body has the ability to metabolize all the calcium that's needed from the normal diet and in most cases if the animal is being fed a high calcium diet, calcium supplements aren't necessary.

If you have doubts about the sufficiency of the calcium in your animal's diet or you have a juvenile or gravid animal and feel its best to supplement calcium, we highly recommend the Rep-Cal brand Calcium, No VitD3, Phosphorus Free only for use with our bulbs."

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Matt if you are using a type of bulb like PowerSun...that gives the heat and the sun....then you don't use D3!! At least that is what I was told???

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The powerSun is a good MVB bulb, but not as good as the ReptileUV's bulb. I would still use D3 just in case a few times a week, im pretty sure that they cannot over dose on it. Id rather be safe than sorry. (This comes from owning many dragons while using D3 and MVB bulbs, someone else may say different)

This is thing about Beardies, every single piece of advice has someone saying something different about it, it gets really confusing.

Ok thank you all for that clarification. Maybe I will give it to him a couple times a week in place of the no D3. :gj:

Not to hyjack but another question....once they have a deficiency.....can they get better from it??

I know they can recover from metabolic bone disease, as for other deficiencies, I'm unsure, but I believe they can. One of my friends' beardies got MBD when the bulb she was using stopped emitting UV but still gave off light. She had to give him mega doses of calcium and D3 and get new bulbs but after some time he recovered. The vet advised her [and subsequently she advised me] to change UV bulbs every 5 months even if they are still emitting light.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Ok thank you all for that clarification. Maybe I will give it to him a couple times a week in place of the no D3. :gj:

Not to hyjack but another question....once they have a deficiency.....can they get better from it??

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Most of the time yes, if you catch it soon enough.

thank you all very much. and dont worry about hijacking I dont mind if my question brings up other conversation. but I do have another question. I noticed the other day that my BD's back legs were kinda just laying behind him like they were dead legs or somethin. I dropped some crickets in and he chased them around dragging his back legs and slowly he started using them again. I also noticed while he was laying there with the "dead legs" that the toes were twitching just a little bit! Is this normal or is there something wrong?

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

The powerSun is a good MVB bulb, but not as good as the ReptileUV's bulb. I would still use D3 just in case a few times a week, im pretty sure that they cannot over dose on it. Id rather be safe than sorry. (This comes from owning many dragons while using D3 and MVB bulbs, someone else may say different)

This is thing about Beardies, every single piece of advice has someone saying something different about it, it gets really confusing.

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I agree with matt but dragons can have negative affects from an over abundance of D3 as it can cause liver and kidney damage. This a rare occurance due to the fact most MVB bulbs still aren't as powerful as direct sunlight. The mega ray is prob the closest to natural sunlight and is why they dont recommend D3 with their bulbs as it is not needed. With most other MVB light I would still give them calcium w/ D3 at least once or 2 a week.

BPElizabeth as far as deficiencies goes I do believe they can recover but it depends on the severity of the deficiencies and what it is they are lacking...

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Originally Posted by monty's dad

thank you all very much. and dont worry about hijacking I dont mind if my question brings up other conversation. but I do have another question. I noticed the other day that my BD's back legs were kinda just laying behind him like they were dead legs or somethin. I dropped some crickets in and he chased them around dragging his back legs and slowly he started using them again. I also noticed while he was laying there with the "dead legs" that the toes were twitching just a little bit! Is this normal or is there something wrong?

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Those are signs of metabolic bone disease and it can be deadly if left untreated. He needs lots and lots of calcium and UV lights like now. When it happened to my friends' beardie his jaw bones got too soft and had to go on the bearded dragon bites soft food and everything he ate had to have calcium spray and the dry things had to have calcium dust. She also had to give him drops of a special calcium and d3 liquid. I can't remember what it was called but take him to a vet and they can probably tell you what it was. He can recover if you treat it right away.

BUT if he ONLY does it when he's laying, its ok. Beardies are lazy and mine loves to just have her legs straight behind her just dangling. BUT combined with them being dragged while chasing crickets and the twitching, it sounds more like MBD. Take him to a vet right away.