Her Fate is Sealed

I've been trying to figure out which of my rats to CO2 and with Noel, I was going to wait to see if she did well with this litter. So far the babies are doing well so I figured I'd give her a chance. If this litter did well, she could live and continue to breed for me.

This morning I went to check on her and the babies and she gave me this little gift. I guess you can say her fate is sealed now.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ke/bite002.jpg

I get it, she was defending her babies and was only doing what came naturally, but aggression to that degree is not something I will tolerate. You draw blood, you die. Simple. I've had rat mommas give me warning nips before. Didn't draw blood or even hurt but I knew they wanted me to back off. This rat flew across the tub and latched on. I can honestly say now that I would MUCH rather get bitten by a snake than a rat any day. Noel will be CO2ed as soon as I get dry ice tomorrow and her babies will be fed off.

Ouch!! Rats bites SUCK! I vote for the gas chamber.:salute:

You prob should remind yourself that they are animals and have instincts, and you were seen as a threat.

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

You prob should remind yourself that they are animals and have instincts, and you were seen as a threat.

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Then remind yourself that this is not the wild and her sole, only, singular as it were, reason for being, was to be and create food. In order for you to get that food you need without injury to yourself you must cull any animals that show aggression. Them and their offspring. You create the environment, you allow them to breed, you use them as food. You owe them good care and housing and a good death, but you do not owe them the right to bite.

I can reach in any tub any time and move moms, dads or babies and, knock on wood, not get bit. When I first started I fed off any rat that bit. All its offspring went as well. I can't remember the last time I got bit. Knocking again.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Then remind yourself that this is not the wild and her sole, only, singular as it were, reason for being, was to be and create food. In order for you to get that food you need without injury to yourself you must cull any animals that show aggression. Them and their offspring. You create the environment, you allow them to breed, you use them as food. You owe them good care and housing and a good death, but you do not owe them the right to bite.

I can reach in any tub any time and move moms, dads or babies and, knock on wood, not get bit. When I first started I fed off any rat that bit. All its offspring went as well. I can't remember the last time I got bit. Knocking again.

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To add to that, you can actually get really sick from rat bites if I'm not mistaken.

Well it stings like heck! I've washed it 3 times now. With any of my hand tame rats, I have been able to go into a tub/enclosure and mess with the babies with no problem. The most the mom will do if she is tired of me being there is come over and ever so gently put her teeth on my hand as if to say "Ok, I'm getting annoyed now" but it was never hard enough to hurt or draw blood.

Noel is not hand tame but her and another female (who I CO2ed just last week) have always been very aggressive(the first time they had their litters they were housed together and they fought over the babies so fiercely, some of the babies had to be culled due to huge gashes in their bodies or missing limbs). I also have to say that the offspring of those two females are very flighty and while not aggressive, show no interest in becoming friends with me.

I'm really starting to realize that starting over from scratch might just be the best idea. Get some young, newly weaned rats and raise them up myself instead of jumping in with some 6-8 week old flighty rats that I've never been able to hand tame.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I'm really starting to realize that starting over from scratch might just be the best idea. Get some young, newly weaned rats and raise them up myself instead of jumping in with some 6-8 week old flighty rats that I've never been able to hand tame.

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Good thinking.

I just need to find someone near me who is selling rats. I don't want to get them from a store but instead someone who breeds their own feeders. I've put up an ad, but no hits.

Keep the best, cull the rest...
Sorry to hear about your bite

I do the same thing--a rat that bites doesn't live. I don't need their genes in my breeder colony.

I will forgive a light nip from a mom defending her pups--but not a 'nip' that draws blood.

yup i just got rid of a few after one bit me and the other two didnt produce good litters. but i got a whole new breeding colony starting up that are very docile rats. :)

give her the chamber!!

edit: oh you reminded me that i need to go get some dry ice :P

I don't hold back biters either.

You don't have to start over from scratch. Just keep the animals that meet your goals and standards and cull the rest.

If you're ever up near Philadelphia for any reason hit me up.

My offer is open to anyone on the forum at all times. If anyone needs small amounts of breeding stock get at me and I should be able to help you out.

I send animals that I want to keep for breeders into the bellies of boas all the time just because I don't have room for all of them.

There is a girl on the forum here that just got a bunch of blue het dumbo weaners in her freezer because I didn't have room to raise them up at the moment.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Then remind yourself that this is not the wild and her sole, only, singular as it were, reason for being, was to be and create food. In order for you to get that food you need without injury to yourself you must cull any animals that show aggression. Them and their offspring. You create the environment, you allow them to breed, you use them as food. You owe them good care and housing and a good death, but you do not owe them the right to bite.

I can reach in any tub any time and move moms, dads or babies and, knock on wood, not get bit. When I first started I fed off any rat that bit. All its offspring went as well. I can't remember the last time I got bit. Knocking again.

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Wes in ALL your genius wisdom plz remind yourself (OLD wise one) that I was not born yesterday, I do understand the process of elimination of aggressive breeders within colonies. On a side note, luckily I''ve never had to break out the nun- chucks one of my F/T's.

I agree frankly. Any rat that is especially timid, skittish and aggressive is culled after behavioral therapy fails. I try my best to handle my breeders and get to know them. There are some lines who just should not be bred.

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Originally Posted by bokuza

I agree frankly. Any rat that is especially timid, skittish and aggressive is culled after behavioral therapy fails. I try my best to handle my breeders and get to know them. There are some lines who just should not be bred.

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I find that those end up being the aggressive ones.
I'm so glad to be raising my own breeders from pinkies, momma rats should never even consider protecting their babies when you handle them, mine just let me do as I please.
Bite me and their done breeding no questions asked.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I find that those end up being the aggressive ones.
I'm so glad to be raising my own breeders from pinkies, momma rats should never even consider protecting their babies when you handle them, mine just let me do as I please.
Bite me and their done breeding no questions asked.

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I don't find the timid ones aggressive but it is when they are skittish the bite. At least that is what the scars my hand say...they could be liars. They've done it before!

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Originally Posted by bokuza

I don't find the timid ones aggressive but it is when they are skittish the bite. At least that is what the scars my hand say...they could be liars. They've done it before!

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Re-done for my sanitys sake...
I don't find that the timid ones bite but the skittish do.*

I'm the same way...biters are gone.
I currently have rats that let me do whatever I want to them. I open the tubs, reach in, pick up babies...pet them, whatever....and no bites.
It's a good colony.

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Originally Posted by Kingofspades

I'm the same way...biters are gone.
I currently have rats that let me do whatever I want to them. I open the tubs, reach in, pick up babies...pet them, whatever....and no bites.
It's a good colony.

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Mine are the same way, I love being able to handle pinks and pet the momma rat at the same time.
Some of my mom rats will lick my hand up and down like a lollipop :P
I raised every one of my breeding colony from pinkies that I held back and have handled them since pinkies too, it makes a world of difference.

Why do you care if the rat defends it's young when the rats are just breeding for food anyways? Does it really matter if the rat is aggressive when it's just making food?

Yes it does matter. I want to be able to put my hand in a tub to count pinks or pick up the babies and not have my fingers bitten in the process. I also sell some as pets so handling them from a young age is important.

I'm hoping to get some CO2 today and euthanize the entire colony. I'm starting over from scratch.