EMERGENCY HELP!!! - Quiet Tempest, I need you.

Our maternally incubating mother left her eggs!!!
The eggs are already on day 60 but they haven't pipped yet. Candles good still - movement and veins.
My husband went ahead and pipped the eggs and they still have movement but there's no more mother!
What to do????

Macguyver up a quick cooler incubator would be my suggestion.

My husband says the eggs are dead that's why the mom left. :tears::tears::tears:
He said, I am mistaken, there was no movement when he pipped them and they don't look "done".
I don't wanna give up hope. There's no smell.
Getting the untested emergency incubator stabilized.

Can you post a pic of the one he cut? If it were me I would make sure the one he cut is dead. If the veins still look good I would bet they are alive. The veins basically blow up when they die. I would open the slit on the cut egg a little more and poke around a little to see if you get any movement.

As John said, the veins are the key. Are the veins white/grey or are the red? If they are red, they are good, and I would expect the babies to emerge soon. I would go ahead and pip the eggs. Also, if they are still alive and truly on day 60, I don't really think they need the mother any longer (I have not maternally incubated, but I have seen eggs hatch in displays at shows, with no special heat or humidity). Essentially once they are already cooked for their incubation period, the mother leaving is probably okay.

I hope that helps,

Sometimes the babies are coiled so tightly in the eggs and completely ignorant to touch that they won't move. I had several babies out of my first clutch no move when I touched them, but all of them came out of the eggs and are thriving well. Give them a chance.

I'd put them on moist paper towels in a 6qt. container with lid sit that on a heat strip set with a 90 degree hot spot and give them about 2-3 days to come out. If they begin to smell then you know you have dead babies. Otherwise they should all come out. Good luck!

Okay, moving them to cooler incubator... But, I don't know if they need air now that they're pipped??? The cooler is not air tight, but there's not much air in there!!! Should I punch holes in the cooler???

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Originally Posted by anatess

Okay, moving them to cooler incubator... But, I don't know if they need air now that they're pipped??? The cooler is not air tight, but there's not much air in there!!! Should I punch holes in the cooler???

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No - they'll be fine - they don't have the same metabolism as mammals and don't require as much air.

I carried my first two clutches of eggs up to NC right when they were due to pip in a styrofoam cooler and they stayed in their egg boxes in the cooler for a full week with no problems.

Didn't move them to cooler yet.

They're in a small eggbox to fit in the cooler lined with wet paper towels. The box is inside the big sterilite container on top of the heat mat. I bumped the temps to 89 (it was at 86 while maternally incubating) I stuck my fingers in there to see if they're moving.
THEY'RE MOVING!!! Well... okay, only 2 out of 5 have real movement, the others are twitches which I'm not sure is movement because I wiggled my fingers in the egg and the slime makes them slippery, so either they're moving or it's just natural inanimate reaction to slippery slime.

But, they don't look big in there at all. And now that the eggs are opened they don't look good. My scale chose today to break, so I can't tell you their exact weights. If it rains it pours.

My head hurts, my heart hurts, I didn't realize how much I really wanted these guys to make it. I look at y'all's pipped pictures and mine looks like they're super ugly I can't imagine how they would survive in that condition.

Here's the picture after I moved them to paper towels. Some bedding is stuck to some eggs because after I stuck my fingers in the eggs, the slime oozed into the bedding and got them all slimed up too. Oh man, they don't look good... :tears::tears::tears:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...7/photo-32.jpg

P.S. I moved mother back to her vivarium. So the eggs are all by themselves in the container without mom now.

It would help to see a pic of the snakes, not the egg, but that one egg on the bottom right where you can see the snake a little bit looks to be fully colored in. I would bet they start coming out in the next 3-4 days.

Yeah, the one snake I see looks fine from here.
Just keep them at 88. They will not start breathing air until they stick their nose out of the egg--don't rush them.

Perhaps the temperature of the clutch was a bit on the low side--development takes longer at a lower temperature. From the color, I agree with pfan, they should be out within a matter of days, if not sooner. Color comes in last on hatchlings.

Okay here are the rest of the eggs. The one that you saw and this one are the ones that are moving. Sorry, I only have a camera phone!

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/photo4.jpg

All the eggs in maternal incubation photos I've seen look a bit ugly. They look fine to me.

These ones are the ones that I can't be sure if they're moving. Veins are all red, no smell, slimy, but snakes are pink - not colored like the others:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/photo5.jpg
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/photo3.jpg
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/photo2.jpg

Do you think they're gonna make it?

I just realized something...

This is a clutch of spider x pastel. So, I think they're all the same color-advancement. I looked closer at the ones with a lot of black color and in-between the black is still pink - the same color pink as the other 3 eggs. So, I think the 2 "colored" ones just look like they have color because they are the normal/pastel ones with more black whereas the 3 others may be spider ones so they don't have as much black.

But, the 2 "blacker" ones do show more movement than the 3 others. So, I don't know. GRRRRR....

I think that second set of pictures is a bee. We just had a clutch hatch that one of the babies wasn't moving at all when I cut them. Then he was the first one out of the eggs. They do look like they are developed, the mother may have just left them because she knew they were ready to be on their own? Good luck with them.

just put them in the incubator and see if they hatch, its plain and simple don't get worked up over it.

Judging by all of the red veins in your photos, I would say that unless the umbilicus is knotted or wrapped around the snakes, all of them should be alive.

You sound like you are on the right path. Good luck with them.

Okay, thank you all for your help so far.

I got one more question. One of the eggs seem to be dryer than the others. I have a lot of Sterile Saline Solution that I had from a few years ago to clean out a wound. Can I use this to put more water on the egg?

Incubation temps - 88.5, 85% humidity. Good? Or should I raise humidity some more?

Temp and humidity look good.

Like Muddoc said, with all the red veins, unless they have a tangled umbilicus, they should be alright.

Just sit back and wait, its about all you can do. We had a clutch last year, that took another 18 days? give or take after the first one pipped. So sit back, relax, and wait for them.

If you think the eggs are to dry or to much leaked out when you were messing with add water. I used bottled water just make sure the temp is close to the egg temp. They look fine.

Okay, this is really crazy. I find myself checking the bator every hour. I can't help it. So, my husband and I cut a hole on the top of the cooler and put plexiglass on just so I won't keep opening the thing.

So, now I have a problem - the humidity bumped up to HI (as in, the accurite thermo/hygro can't measure it anymore it just says HI - so it's probably at 100%). Moisture is developing on the lid of the eggbox. Now, I know these guys are already pipped so it is probably not too bad if water "rains" on them some because I was squirting saline solution on them just yesterday....

I'm thinking of putting press and seal over the box but then I'm thinking... these guys need air. What to do? ARRRRGGGG!

There's gotta be a college course on this!

Breathe! :P

No press and seal, open the eggbox every day for air transfer and to check everything is still ok - if the eggs look as though there is a skin forming on the fluid or it seems cloudy spritz with saline ( I used tap water myself ;) ) again to flush them out slightly.

The humidity might simply be because you are lowering the incubator temp by opening it so much meaning the egg boxes are slightly higher temp than the surrounding air.


dr del

Thank you, Dr. Del.
It's getting worse. I'm looking through the window every 5 minutes seems like. I put the bator next to my office desk so I can work.

The eggs look really ugly. I look at all the recent pip'd pics up on this forum and they all look pretty. :tears:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ess07/egg2.jpg

Moisture on egg-box lid that I'm talking about:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ss07/eggs1.jpg

Emergency incubator (suprisingly gives out a very steady temperature - I looked at the temp history and it only varied by 1 degree). The egg-box is on tightly capped water bottles that are on a UTH that is stuck to a sheet of polycarbonate inside the el-cheapo styrofoam cooler. Good thing I only have 5 eggs. It wouldn't fit anything else.
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ess07/egg3.jpg

Hi,

It almost looks as though the cuts went too far down the sides of the egg and let a lot of the egg white out which has left them looking a lot more deflated than most you see.

When you cut it's best to go along the top of the egg to avoid that happening.

I would mist every day and that will also take care of the air requirements of the hatchlings.

I really don't think the humidity is a problem at this point.


dr del

I am sorry I didn't see this thread. I don't know how I missed it!

This far into incubation, I really don't know what would cause the mother to neglect her clutch. My eggs didn't start pipping until day 59 and day 56 and the females still lingered in their "nests" with babies crawling around them.

The babies in eggs should be fine so long as temps and humidity remain within the same levels that they had when their mom was tending them.

Good luck. I sorry to say it, but those eggs were really cut poorly. Next time just a little slit on top is all you really should do. I make a little wedge shaped cut so I can lift the flap and then fold the flap back down after taking a peek. Hopefully your eggs are close enough to hatching that it won't make a difference.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Good luck. I sorry to say it, but those eggs were really cut poorly. Next time just a little slit on top is all you really should do. I make a little wedge shaped cut so I can lift the flap and then fold the flap back down after taking a peek. Hopefully your eggs are close enough to hatching that it won't make a difference.

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You're very right. I cut it across instead of long-wise using kitchen shears - the only thing I had handy! I don't know why I did it that way except that it's how I always crack an egg for breakfast.

It wasn't so bad (okay, so it was still bad) when I first cut it but then I poked around the insides of the egg trying to see if they're moving so they all slit all the way down the sides. At that time I thought the eggs were goners.

Ahh... amateurs! Grrrr. I was getting complacent with the "natural birth" thing that when mom left the eggs I just panicked.

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Originally Posted by Quiet Tempest

I am sorry I didn't see this thread. I don't know how I missed it!

This far into incubation, I really don't know what would cause the mother to neglect her clutch. My eggs didn't start pipping until day 59 and day 56 and the females still lingered in their "nests" with babies crawling around them.

The babies in eggs should be fine so long as temps and humidity remain within the same levels that they had when their mom was tending them.

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Tempest, I really don't understand it either. There was no warning of any kind. Everything was just trucking along. I was getting antsy because it was already 59 days and nothing was happening. I woke up on day 60 and mom was not with the eggs. She was curled up on the non-heated end of the tub - without a hide. I'm like, hmm... that's weird. But, I wasn't worried or anything, I just thought I just caught her on a rare moment that she wanted to cool down. Came home that night and she wasn't with the eggs. I put her back in the egg box. She went and curled up for a few but then left again. The really wierd thing is - for the past 59 days - you couldn't go near her without fear of getting a good tagging. She was some mean momma! But that day - she was like normal temperament again. We picked her up, put her in the egg box, she wasn't doing the S-thing at all. She crawls out of the egg box, we pick her up like she's the pet we've had for the past 2 years. Really, really wierd. It's feeding day for her on Friday. We'll see if she eats. I'm thinking I should just go ahead and schedule a vet visit.

Sorry that I couldn't give you guys a happy-ending maternal incubation story. :tears:

P.S. When do you guys schedule the first vet visit for the babies? After first shed? After first meal?

vet visit?

OMG this is one of the most exciting confusing action packed thread ever im not really a breeder but i wish u the best of luck and i cant wait to see what happens i look foward to seeing some beautiful babys :gj:

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Originally Posted by anatess

P.S. When do you guys schedule the first vet visit for the babies? After first shed? After first meal?

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I don't take my hatchlings to the vet.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I don't take my hatchlings to the vet.

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I don't have experience enough to know if they're healthy and what gender they are. :(

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Originally Posted by anatess

I don't have experience enough to know if they're healthy and what gender they are. :(

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Do you have a specialized exotics vet to take them to? It's been my experience that most vets that don't specialize won't be able to sex them for you either (or they'll tell you that they are too young to sex).

Are there any other breeders local to you? They should be able to help you!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Do you have a specialized exotics vet to take them to? It's been my experience that most vets that don't specialize won't be able to sex them for you either (or they'll tell you that they are too young to sex).

Are there any other breeders local to you? They should be able to help you!

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I second this. Even an exotics vet will not be specialized in BP's. They usually have general knowledge of everything from monkeys and parrots to iguanas. You'll probably leave disappointed. Nobody will have more experience sexing hatchlings than an experienced breeder. They will be able to tell you if they seem healthy as well.

Of course, if they have obvious health problems, do not hesitate to take them to a vet immediately. Time is the most important variable when it comes to saving a sick reptile.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

I second this. Even an exotics vet will not be specialized in BP's. They usually have general knowledge of everything from monkeys and parrots to iguanas. You'll probably leave disappointed. Nobody will have more experience sexing hatchlings than an experienced breeder. They will be able to tell you if they seem healthy as well.

Of course, if they have obvious health problems, do not hesitate to take them to a vet immediately. Time is the most important variable when it comes to saving a sick reptile.

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We have Dr. Rossi here - he's my reptile vet who has been taking care of all our reptiles (snakes and turtles) for their yearly check-up. He is well known in the herp industry (my impression) having published a few books including "What's wrong with my snake?". He has been great with our pets so far.

I do have Mike Cavanaugh 20 miles away. He's the only other person I know in these parts other than the reptile pet stores. He's taking care of Cheerios though, so he might have his hands full.

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Originally Posted by anatess

We have Dr. Rossi here - he's my reptile vet who has been taking care of all our reptiles (snakes and turtles) for their yearly check-up. He is well known in the herp industry (my impression) having published a few books including "What's wrong with my snake?". He has been great with our pets so far.

I do have Mike Cavanaugh 20 miles away. He's the only other person I know in these parts other than the reptile pet stores. He's taking care of Cheerios though, so he might have his hands full.

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It's up to you to take whether to take the hatchlings to the vet or not. I think it's basically throwing money away to take a snake that is not sick to the vet but that's your choice. I also don't think there is any reason to take a ball python for yearly checkups.

The only time I take any of my snakes to the vet is when there's something wrong that I'm not familiar with or that I can't handle myself. I've found that the vets in my neck of the woods are really not as experienced as their advertisements would lead you to believe. If the babies are alert, aren't acting peculiar, and have all their parts I consider them healthy. If problems arise later on, I'll either get in touch with another breeder or look for more info from others here on the forum before I go to the vet. It's unfortunate, but I look at the vet as a last ditch effort here and a potential death sentence after losing one of my snakes a couple years ago after taking him to a vet that clearly wasn't what he was hyped up to be.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

It's up to you to take whether to take the hatchlings to the vet or not. I think it's basically throwing money away to take a snake that is not sick to the vet but that's your choice. I also don't think there is any reason to take a ball python for yearly checkups.

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The dog, bird, turtles, and snakes go to the vet yearly. The hamsters, rats, fish don't - they don't live long enough. We have a mini-zoo going on here and I am not qualified to gauge the health of these guys. As in, they might be sick and they still look okay to me. The yearly check-up makes sure we haven't messed up royally. We've only had snakes for 2 years - not long enough to know everything about them.

We're not breeders - just pet owners so hatching 5 eggs is completely beyond my comfort zone. I feel like I'm doing injustice to these guys with all the trouble that I wasn't prepared for. What is really ironic is that the hubby and kids attempted the breeding because I told them I'm not spending $600 for a bumblebee. Hah, if these 5 guys make it out of the egg, I'll be spending over $300 for the vet! Shoulda just spent the $600.

I'm not regretting it though. We all had one heck of an education.

If they hatch ok then you'll only stress them and potentially put them off feeding by taking them to the vets with no reason. I'd just wait till they come out, let them shed and then attempt a feed. If there is something wrong then you'll notice soon enough and if you can't see something immediately wrong with a hatchling then a vet is unlikely to either.

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Originally Posted by fishboyUK

If they hatch ok then you'll only stress them and potentially put them off feeding by taking them to the vets with no reason. I'd just wait till they come out, let them shed and then attempt a feed. If there is something wrong then you'll notice soon enough and if you can't see something immediately wrong with a hatchling then a vet is unlikely to either.

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Very good point, fishboy! Okay, no vet until well-established. Maybe just get them all by next scheduled vet visit (January) unless they act funny.

i hope they all come out how r they doing anymore pics?

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Originally Posted by JEWSKIN

i hope they all come out how r they doing anymore pics?

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Chiming in here, too. Anymore pics?

I'm embarassed everytime I post a pic of my edward scissorhands egg-cut job.

Okay, to all amateurs... this is an example of a BAD egg cutting job.

So, still not much movement, but still no smell, no mold, still red veins, and it seems like the black spots are much darker. So, I conclude that they're all still alive! Still pinkish. I don't know when the brown stuff is coming in. Today is day 65, so yeah, they're taking FOREVER! Temps running steady at 88, humidity just says HI, so it's close to 100 I guess.

I think I have 2 normals/pastels and 3 spiders/bees judging by the amount of black I see. What do you think? Also, I've been trying to flush that white film on the slime with saline solution but they just keep coming back every morning.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ess07/egg1.jpg
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/egg3-1.jpg
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ess07/egg5.jpg
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ess07/egg4.jpg
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/egg2-1.jpg

And all together now
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...s07/eggall.jpg

Just realized this thread is REALLY OLD. Sorry.

lol that makes two of us, i read the whole thing, and was hoping to beable to see the outcome but i see the last post and now ill never know, DUN DUN DUNNNNN

That was anti climactic :(

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Me to. I read it I was hoping to see what happen :(

What happened nooooooooooo