A snake has such a small head, I wonder about its brain

I question the notion that a ball python can be tamed. Part of this question lies in the [subjective] definition of a "tame" animal. I have handled some extremely tame ball pythons, as well as some docile red tails. However, I quesiton the ones that are actually aggressive, and the assertion that with frequent handling, they can be tamed.

I have what would be considered an aggressive baby ball python, and I wonder if even with frequent handling, she could ever be tamed.

I wonder if it is just hardwired into their nature. Once aggressive, always aggressive, so to speak.

Once tame, always tame.

Does this assumption hold any validity? I'd like feedback from handlers of both "mellow" and [relatively] aggressive BP's.

While my bp has calmed down a little bit in the months since buying her, I feel compelled to wonder if she will ever be as tame as a bp who rarely, if ever, attempts to bite its handler.


I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

I don't think snakes are tame. They are tolerant simply because they eventually identify your scent as "non-threat". I tend to believe in their world, things are identified as "food", "not food", "threat", "not threat", "secure", "not secure", "mate", "not mate". But I also believe that they are capable of moods to some degree...

I have 12 bps now, and at least half of them have bitten me at one point, and two of them kept it up for a good 6 months or more. I think a lot of new hatchlings bite because they're hungry, and they don't know better; and some of them keep biting even as they get older because they're more fearful; and some yearlings and juveniles continue to bite because they're just plain old ornery. But all of mine have grown out of it, including Mr. Nibbles and Miss Pissy Pewter. I think 98% of them grow out of it, just because it's not the way adult ball pythons operate.

And I think weekly handling does help, especially when they're young. I think it helps them accept humans as part of their environment, so they don't stress too much. And that's what really makes them "tame". A wild-caught adult can be sweet as pumpkin pie, but still be too stressed to eat.

(I don't necessarily believe in domesticated ball pythons, but I do believe in tame ones. But I think we're splitting hairs on the definition of the word, and the real answer is: yes. Some of them take a year about it. But she'll chill out eventually.)

I don't think a snake can be considered tame. Nothing like a horse, I'm not sure you can call most domesticated animals tame, some yes. The dog and cat, but if you let a cat run, they can become feral and lose their trust of people.

I think they are basic animals, feed them, give them a decent environment and they will tolerate you.

Even a long term, kept snake (meaning more than 10 years) has been known to bite at one time or another. Not saying that all will bite, but some will, so it tends to make you think they don't really have the capacity to be tamed.

Jim Smith

I do believe snakes can become tame to a certain degree, because when looking up tame snakes do fit into some of the listed definitions and adjectives listed.

As Vypyrz said most likely they register things as a threat or no threat. Food or no food. Their minds are simple and their learned behaviors are minute if any at all.
Most all is instinct. And they have triggers as far as when to go off that instinct,

Just like a pitbull, snakes can be tamed to a certain level but in certain situations they can snap just like that. Because beyond our efforts to "domesticate" and rid them of their instincts...the instincts will always be there harboring and chances are at some point something will trigger them.

Just like a pitbull, snakes can be tamed to a certain level but in certain situations they can snap just like that. Because beyond our efforts to "domesticate" and rid them of their instincts...the instincts will always be there harboring and chances are at some point something will trigger them.[/QUOTE]


Sorry to go off topic I little, but I have to say that comparison really isnt fair. Poor breeding and poor handling can contribute to undesirable responses in any of our domesticated animals, not just pitbulls. Singling them out and comparing them to the more basic instincts of something like a ball python contributes more to the stereo type than is warranted. They are more a product of their environment and not so much simply wired -that way-. I could go into it deeper, but since thats not what this thread is about....


That said I agree with Vyperz
food, not food, threat, not threat.

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Originally Posted by Generationshell

I do believe snakes can become tame to a certain degree, because when looking up tame snakes do fit into some of the listed definitions and adjectives listed.

As Vypyrz said most likely they register things as a threat or no threat. Food or no food. Their minds are simple and their learned behaviors are minute if any at all.
Most all is instinct. And they have triggers as far as when to go off that instinct,

Just like a pitbull, snakes can be tamed to a certain level but in certain situations they can snap just like that. Because beyond our efforts to "domesticate" and rid them of their instincts...the instincts will always be there harboring and chances are at some point something will trigger them.

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Pitbulls are no more dangerous than a Rottweiller if bred and raised properly. The human race has made the pitbull into what is is today. I won't go into that here, but a snake and a pitbull comparison isn't a fair comparison.

Many have to realize that snake uses it's mouth for everything that other animals have other appendages to use. So instead of pushing you away with an arm, or a leg, they strike out at you. When they're hungry, they don't grab their food with a hand, they grab it with their mouths. Everything revolves around their mouth. So many can take this as agressiveness.

Just one man's opinion.
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by loonunit

I have 12 bps now, and at least half of them have bitten me at one point, and two of them kept it up for a good 6 months or more. I think a lot of new hatchlings bite because they're hungry, and they don't know better; and some of them keep biting even as they get older because they're more fearful; and some yearlings and juveniles continue to bite because they're just plain old ornery. But all of mine have grown out of it, including Mr. Nibbles and Miss Pissy Pewter. I think 98% of them grow out of it, just because it's not the way adult ball pythons operate.

And I think weekly handling does help, especially when they're young. I think it helps them accept humans as part of their environment, so they don't stress too much. And that's what really makes them "tame". A wild-caught adult can be sweet as pumpkin pie, but still be too stressed to eat.

(I don't necessarily believe in domesticated ball pythons, but I do believe in tame ones. But I think we're splitting hairs on the definition of the word, and the real answer is: yes. Some of them take a year about it. But she'll chill out eventually.)

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Actually, I think hatchlings bite more out of survival. You're a huge heat emitting predator in their eyes - until they learn that your intentions are NOT to eat them, they are doing their best to scare you off.

Actually pit bulls score on temperament tests at the same exact level as border collies.

Don't confuse temperament with tameness. Temperament is inherent. Taming is a form of training. (Domestication involves breeding a species for an increase in good temperament and tolerance of a captive environment with human interaction).

A tame animal has been TAUGHT to trust humans. Many ball pythons have a naturally docile temperament and don't even have to be tamed. Others have a more nervous disposition and become tame as they are worked with.
A very few ball pythons have a bad temperament, and cannot be trusted even if they are tamed as much as possible.

I wouldn't write off a ball python as having a truly bad temperament until they're a year old, though.

Ball pythons have incredibly tiny brains. Remember, reptile brains don't take up as much space in their head as bird and mammal brains do, so their brain is much smaller than you think it is. However, it takes a lot less brain to do some amazingly complex things than you might realize. :)

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I wouldn't write off a ball python as having a truly bad temperament until they're a year old, though.

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Would you say, then, that a ball python that has not been fully tamed (can't trust it around your kids) by the age of a year will never be fully tamed? Or can a snake still calm down with frequent, gentle handling even past the age of one year? I'm just curious because the little guy I have still goes into strike mode when I open his tub. He's better about hissing and he's ok when I hold him, but he's fast approaching his first birthday and I doubt I'll have him at the level my other snake is by then.

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Originally Posted by Punkymom

Would you say, then, that a ball python that has not been fully tamed (can't trust it around your kids) by the age of a year will never be fully tamed? Or can a snake still calm down with frequent, gentle handling even past the age of one year? I'm just curious because the little guy I have still goes into strike mode when I open his tub. He's better about hissing and he's ok when I hold him, but he's fast approaching his first birthday and I doubt I'll have him at the level my other snake is by then.

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That's just cage agression or a feeding response. Many times if you just tap the snake with a probe or hook, the snake realizes it's not feeding time or things are going to be okay. Then you can usually grasp the snake gentle and remove the snake from the enclosure.

I always touch/rub the snake along it's back before I pick them up. It's just a thing I do to let them know something is about to happen.

If the snake is in the strike position when you open the enclosure, just gently tap them somewhere along the head/behind the head. This lets them know something is about to happen.

You will need to work with the snake and eventually, the snake should calm down and not be so agressive.

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

ps Never give up on the snake, sometimes it will start to work when you think it's never going to change.

I have friends who practice falconry, and while different from reptile ownershipthere are some interesting parallels.

Animals, can become "tame" for a number of reasons. The most basic of which is a form of reliance out of necessity. The animals in question probably recognize you as the bringer of food, and as such, without you, they cannot survive. That is how my friends train their birds.

A higher form of "tameness" is the parent / child. See ducks. Where an animal imprints you as their mother.

Anything beyond the above are usually found only in sentient beings, and as such isn't really useful in this list.

Animals who don't attack because you aren't a perceived threat wouldn't fall under the distinction of being tame... A more accurate term would be uninterested.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

That's just cage agression or a feeding response. Many times if you just tap the snake with a probe or hook, the snake realizes it's not feeding time or things are going to be okay. Then you can usually grasp the snake gentle and remove the snake from the enclosure.

I always touch/rub the snake along it's back before I pick them up. It's just a thing I do to let them know something is about to happen.

If the snake is in the strike position when you open the enclosure, just gently tap them somewhere along the head/behind the head. This lets them know something is about to happen.

You will need to work with the snake and eventually, the snake should calm down and not be so agressive.

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

ps Never give up on the snake, sometimes it will start to work when you think it's never going to change.

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If he was cage aggressive, don't you think that EVERY time I tried to get him out he'd do like this? But if he's under his hide and I lift it off he doesn't go into strike mode. It's ONLY when he's roaming around his cage and I open it. I don't think it's a feeding response, either. I personally think he's just afraid! When I first got him he would strike the glass whenever I came close! For a while I had all 4 sides of his enclosure covered so he felt secure. Then when he had established a feeding routine I removed the cover on the front of the cage.

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Originally Posted by Generationshell

Just like a pitbull, snakes can be tamed to a certain level but in certain situations they can snap just like that. Because beyond our efforts to "domesticate" and rid them of their instincts...the instincts will always be there harboring and chances are at some point something will trigger them.

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This is one of the most ridiculous comments Ive seen in a while

I think an aggressive snake has to get use to the person its being held by before its tame with that single person. But once that single person passes the snakes onto another person the snake is going to be aggressive again in tell the snake recognizes that person by scent. And then I think there can be tame snakes that are tame with everyone no matter scent. I guess it all depends on if your snake is use to being held frequently or not. Also if a snake is abused by humans I believe it will always be aggressive tbh.

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Originally Posted by Punkymom

Would you say, then, that a ball python that has not been fully tamed (can't trust it around your kids) by the age of a year will never be fully tamed? Or can a snake still calm down with frequent, gentle handling even past the age of one year? I'm just curious because the little guy I have still goes into strike mode when I open his tub. He's better about hissing and he's ok when I hold him, but he's fast approaching his first birthday and I doubt I'll have him at the level my other snake is by then.

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If the animal has been worked with at all, has had its cage cleaned, been fed, and been handled at least enough to take its measurements regularly...
Then at 1 year of age, if it is still striking and isn't trustworthy when handled, I think I would consider it to have a bad temperament. In other words, you can probably make it a bit tamer, but you probably will never be able to make it trustworthy.

If the animal really hasn't been worked with at all, then it may need to be tamed--worked with to settle it down. A wild ball python is likely to be nervous and nippy because it's never been around humans before, and doesn't know that it won't be harmed, yet.

I disagree with the definition of tameness one poster presented. An animal that has lost its fear of humans and allows itself to be handled is tame. An animal that has lost its fear of humans, and allows itself to be handled sometimes, but will bite if it's in a bad mood, has a bad temperament. ;)
Dictionary definition of tame: "Reduced from a state of native wildness and shyness; accustomed to man".

I've never seen any sign that my ball pythons care which human is holding them. Some individual people can approach and handle them WRONG, and make them more nervous and upset as a result, but it has nothing to do with the snake recognizing those individuals. I think snakes are capable of recognizing individuals, but I think they rarely care. <lol>