Mystery Lesser Clutch? Help ID?

Ok so this is my first time hatching lessers..but i can't ignore the fact that these are different. I bred lesser x normal, got 8 eggs..and hatched 6 lessers and 2 normals. When i cut the eggs i saw that 4 of the 6 lessers were extremely pale in comparison. Heres a couple pics of the clutch all hatched out..minus one normal (still in egg). To my knowledge there are no ghost genes with either sire or dam..hidden gene? Anyone have any ideas?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/100_1308.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/100_1307.jpg

I woulda put money on Hypo

Thats it...I'm buying a super lesser and breeding it to every normal I can find! Those are without a doubt Platinums! You lucky lucky fool!

those look like Platinum's. congrats! I'd get in contact with Ralph Davis to confirm, but thats what I'd bank on.

thats awesome, congrats!!

I'm not familiar with all the morphs, but all I know is they are gorgeous! :gj:

I think you hit a gold mine on Platinums.

WOW and 4 to boot. Great odds on that clutch

Platty's for sure. This seems to a common occurance these days. Congrats! Those are worth a pretty penny.

Yup, those look like platinum to me, which also means that the normal siblings may not be so 'normal' and are probably worth quite a bit themselves.

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Originally Posted by Luke Martin

Thats it...I'm buying a super lesser and breeding it to every normal I can find! Those are without a doubt Platinums! You lucky lucky fool!

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Agreed:P This would have been an amazing clutch even if you knew you had a het platty

WOW!!! that is a stroke of luck; looks like plattys to me. You hit the lottery there for sure. :gj:

Where did you acquire the "normal" if I may ask?

Im gonna say ghost as the hidden gene for platinums produces a little more phased out snake with more white than your picture currently show. Awesome clutch grats

I could say I'm not jealous but I would be lying. Wow what a clutch. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by balls4me

Im gonna say ghost as the hidden gene for platinums produces a little more phased out snake with more white than your picture currently show. Awesome clutch grats

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Don't you find it kinda funny that the only "ghosts" are the Lessers? Those are %100 Plattys. Not to mention, colors are very hard to capture in photos.

JUST. AMAZING. Great snakes!

Score! Sure looks platty to me. Tell your "normal" you love her, and give her some extra mice. :gj:

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Don't you find it kinda funny that the only "ghosts" are the Lessers? Those are %100 Plattys. Not to mention, colors are very hard to capture in photos.

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They may be Plattys but im going with what I think. Lumans Platty if you look at pic will show you what I mean. Either way they are phenominal animals. I hope for him they are plattys. I just think they are ghost and odds hitting any animal vary. Dont you find it funny 4 are platinums if i use your logic,
you may have balls but i promise one isnt crystal:P

Hypo Lessers and Platinums don't look close enough in appearance for it to be any question of them not being Platinums. Also you Actually have a better chance of accidentally producing Platinums with the female only having to be het Platty rather than both animals happening to be het hypo.

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Originally Posted by Luke Martin

Hypo Lessers and Platinums don't look close enough in appearance for it to be any question of them not being Platinums. Also you Actually have a better chance of accidentally producing Platinums with the female only having to be het Platty rather than both animals happening to be het hypo.

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Exactly what I was gonna say. The odds of lining reccessives up on accident are super slim. The Platty gene seems to be turning up all over the place.

These are Pladdy Daddys. Like said in other threads the chance of both parents being het ghost and the OP not knowing it are slim, but possible. This is happening alot this year. This is the third clutch I have seen where the Normal Female was holding the Het Daddy gene. Contact Ralph Davis to verify. He is a very nice guy and is unlike some other big breeders, he will talk to you and help in any way he can.

Congrats, you might want to get a lottery ticket next time you're out and about.

Matt

Those are stunning!!! Congrats on a nice clutch :)

thanks everyone for the kind words. Yeah i agree..when i cut these eggs and saw the first "platty" i was really leaning towards platty...i followed Ralphs site pretty well when he was first producing these but didn't wanna assume that this is what these were...ghost is pretty far fetched also. I wasn't aware others were randomely hitting on these either..i couldn't be happier...i'm never the guy that has the best odds or finds something new but this has made the last 15 years working with BP's all worth it. The Dame was actually a poss het pied i bought from a very "unreputable" breeder back in 03 that i'm pretty sure was just a farm bred baby. The last 2 breedings she didn't produce any pieds but i think she made up for it this yeah huh? HA! Thanks again for the great comments!

Chad Hulker

Chad I will be over next week to pick up the two you don't need. You clearly hatched out way too many and it would not be fair to keep them all to yourself :) Congrats again and I will see you Monday

Joe Ellis

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Originally Posted by pfan151

I could say I'm not jealous but I would be lying. Wow what a clutch. Congrats.

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Co-sign.

Let's see some pics of mom!

if they're lesser ghost, they will shed 100% clear with no pattern whatsoever...

Wow congrats man I agree with everyone that thinks they are plattys. Shows you that you just never know with these animals.

Big grats, you nailed it either way... look like plattys to me.

Justin

cant describe this in words so


:O :O :O :O

Alright I gotta ask...

I always thought Lesser's and lesser platinums were the same just a different name. Can someone explain what exactly "platinum" means and why they differ from lessers. They seem hypoish is that the only difference?

Alright Platinum consist of 2 genes in the BEL complex (alleles at the same locus). One is Lesser, the other is Daddy (in Platinums). When Butter or Lesser are accompanied by the Daddy gene they produce Butter Daddys or Platy Daddys (Platinums).

Thanks again everyone. I took a few more pics to share that show there color better...and one of Mom and Dad. I bred the same sire to other females but this one is the only one that took..how fortunate for me!



http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/100_1316.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/100_1319.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/100_1317.jpg

Here's one of Mom
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/100_1321.jpg

And the Lesser sire
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...5/100_1322.jpg

My lesser is way different than yours. Mine has much more yellow. I think yours is very platinum looking. I always thought it was silver, but man! Congratulations on a great clutch. I'll take a pair for sticking by you for all these years!

Wow, lucky you! Congrats!

i agree - go buy a lottery ticket

What a great feeling. This is why we breed bps. Congrats!

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Originally Posted by h00blah

i agree - go buy a lottery ticket

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I'm pretty sure that isnt how the mystical "luck" concept works. They needed to buy the ticket around the time they put the snakes together. By now the streak is over. :(

Yeah, Dad is a pretty stunning lesser to begin with. I'm not sure if I'd call him a full-blown platinum if I saw him alone... but he certainly made me do a double take and go running to look at RDR's platinum pics:

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/co...all_python.asp

Hmm after seeing the daddy I would almost be willing to bet that he's the culprit. Looks more platy to me than lesser. Could just be the pic though.

Congrats, amazing clutch there.

I would definitely send pictures to Ralph and get the opinion on whether these are platty's or not - directly from the man himself. He answers all his e-mails, and who better to get an opinion from on them, than from the man who has seen more Platty Daddy's than anyone.

Congratulations, it's a stunning clutch!

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Hmm after seeing the daddy I would almost be willing to bet that he's the culprit. Looks more platy to me than lesser. Could just be the pic though.

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But platy X normal can't produce platy because lesser and hidden are alleles (different versions of the same gene). The platy dad could only give one version to each baby, either hidden or lesser, but not both. So even if dad where a platy the babies would still need hidden from mom.

It might be that hidden isn't all that rare in the normal looking population. Dang, I need a lesser to breed to all my females just in case.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Hmm after seeing the daddy I would almost be willing to bet that he's the culprit. Looks more platy to me than lesser. Could just be the pic though.

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No, I've got a lesser that looks very much like that, but he sure didn't look like that as a baby, he just got lighter as he got older. With this clutch you can tell which is which right at hatching.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

It might be that hidden isn't all that rare in the normal looking population. Dang, I need a lesser to breed to all my females just in case.

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How amazing would it be to breed a Lesser to a morph and get Platinum/Morph snakes. The whole time that het daddy gene had been sitting in some morph line, shuffled around, and ultimately pops up out of nowhere.

Also, to OP, definitely message Ralph, if they are Platinum, breed them together. 50% Platinums, 25% BELs, !!!!25% HOM DADDYS!!!!

I would love to have 2 Platinums just to try and get a Hom Daddy, it could be sold as such and would produce 50% Platinums and Butter Daddys when bred to each respective snake.

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Originally Posted by Animals As Leaders

Alright I gotta ask...

I always thought Lesser's and lesser platinums were the same just a different name. Can someone explain what exactly "platinum" means and why they differ from lessers. They seem hypoish is that the only difference?

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Ralphs original snake is a Platinum, aka "Platty daddy". His first generation offspring didn't look quite like him, so he called them "Lesser Platinums", as in not quite platinum.

Later it was discovered that some of "Platty daddy's" normal looking offspring carried the extra "hidden gene" that when combined with a lesser platinum will produce a true Platinum.

You are correct, lesser is just short for lesser platinum. But Platinum is a snake like platty daddy that has the hidden gene as well.

Also, Ralph has bred a butter to a hidden gene carrier and produced a butter daddy that has the caracteristics of a platinum as well.

I typed this same message yesturday and it didnt post. It was a bit longer but said the same thing. I wasnt going to type it agian so I am glad you did. Yes Ralph is a great guy and will talk to anyone. He isnt like some other big breeders who only talks to you when you buy animals from them.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

Ralphs original snake is a Platinum, aka "Platty daddy". His first generation offspring didn't look quite like him, so he called them "Lesser Platinums", as in not quite platinum.

Later it was discovered that some of "Platty daddy's" normal looking offspring carried the extra "hidden gene" that when combined with a lesser platinum will produce a true Platinum.

You are correct, lesser is just short for lesser platinum. But Platinum is a snake like platty daddy that has the hidden gene as well.

Also, Ralph has bred a butter to a hidden gene carrier and produced a butter daddy that has the caracteristics of a platinum as well.

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Looks to me like you have four platinum hatchlings there, congrats! There is absolutely no way those are hypo lessers. Here's a hypo butter right out of the egg, a hypo lesser looks more or less the same:
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z.../clutch32b.jpg

Wow that's an awesome and unexpected clutch you have! Congrats! I dont think I would be able to keep my eyes off them lol

Wow, what an amazing clutch! Those definitely look like platinums to me. Huge congrats!