BP's and newborn human safety...

Hi All -

I just had a baby (human), and all of the grandparents are just certain that my ball pythons are a danger to him.

I have them in a rack system in a separate room from the nursery. I only have 10 ball pythons and nothing else as far as snakes go. A couple of the females are up to 3000 grams, so they are on the large side for ball pythons, but I still don't believe they will cause any problems.

I tried my best to find on google any incidents where a ball python caused harm to a human baby, and I've seen nothing. If I were concerned that my baby was in harm's way, I would get rid of them no problem, but I think with just a tiny bit of common sense they are fine.

Does anybody have any documented information either for or against having ball pythons in the same house as a newborn baby? I need some concrete evidence that will convince the grandparents that I haven't lost my senses. I've told them that if they can find even one instance of a ball python mixing it up with a kid, I will get rid of them. If there has been an incident, I would like to know before they find out!

Thanks!

Jeff

This may be a little over the top, but here ya go.

YouTube - Kid Rides Giant Python

The only issue I would see the slight possiblity of salmonella. but I mean unless its a 5kg ball then I dont think you would have any problems as long as they are in different rooms, and you wash your hands

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Originally Posted by Emohooker

The only issue I would see the slight possiblity of salmonella. but I mean unless its a 5kg ball then I dont think you would have any problems as long as they are in different rooms, and you wash your hands

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The eggs we eat carry salmonella before their cooked and you or you wife probably handles those just as much (if not more) as you handle your snakes.

I did a quick look about and I could only find one incident with a pet snake (8.5' Burmese Python) and a child and it was a result of the snakes enclosure not only a lock, but a cover.
http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-w...rged-together/

Furthermore, I found another site where in April and May of this year alone, there were 11 children injured and 1 child killed by dogs. How many grandparents are concerned about dogs in the house?
http://www.mothersagainstdogchaining.org/attacks.html

i have other reptiles that can potentially carry bad stuff for any human, so we are extremely good about washing our hands after handling any of the reptiles.

i don't think i will show the video to my folks, haha. i'm trying to get it through their heads that ball pythons do not get big. thanks for the responses!!!!

There's never been such an incident, so there's nothing documented.

I imagine that you wouldn't want to subject a newborn to a 3000 gram python's accidental feeding bite, but that really isn't going to happen, is it? lol

Put a latch and padlock on the door to the snake room. You'll need one anyhow, to keep the baby out once it's a toddler. If you get into that habit now, you'll be unlikely to forget it when the little one is wandering around. You, the baby (and the snakes) can rest safely.

I'm a parent as well, and I was more concerned about what the baby would do to the snakes than what the snakes would do to the baby--the latter have quite a grip on them. ;)

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Originally Posted by 55Ballin

I did a quick look about and I could only find one incident with a pet snake (8.5' Burmese Python) and a child and it was a result of the snakes enclosure not only a lock, but a cover.
http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-w...rged-together/

Furthermore, I found another site where in April and May of this year alone, there were 11 children injured and 1 child killed by dogs. How many grandparents are concerned about dogs in the house?
http://www.mothersagainstdogchaining.org/attacks.html

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the story about the burmese python is exactly what is fueling their fears. i'm trying to convince them that ball pythons aren't burmese pythons. i personally don't have big snakes but i'm not against having them around kids if the person really knows what they are doing. i wouldn't trust myself, but i have friends who have done it for years without incident.

this guy from Florida who didn't even properly enclose the snake probably wasn't feeding it enough either. i'm sure he did a couple things wrong...not to pick on him...i'm sure he is paying for his mistakes dearly.

interesting about the dogs...thanks again.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

There's never been such an incident, so there's nothing documented.

I imagine that you wouldn't want to subject a newborn to a 3000 gram python's accidental feeding bite, but that really isn't going to happen, is it? lol

Put a latch and padlock on the door to the snake room. You'll need one anyhow, to keep the baby out once it's a toddler. If you get into that habit now, you'll be unlikely to forget it when the little one is wandering around. You, the baby (and the snakes) can rest safely.

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ya, i don't think i'll have him around for feeding time so we should be fine there, haha. i've got a lock on the door already because i have a weimaraner that can open doors. thanks, everyone. any further information that i could show the grandparents would be great.

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Originally Posted by jsharpie77

the story about the burmese python is exactly what is fueling their fears. i'm trying to convince them that ball pythons aren't burmese pythons. i personally don't have big snakes but i'm not against having them around kids if the person really knows what they are doing. i wouldn't trust myself, but i have friends who have done it for years without incident.

this guy from Florida who didn't even properly enclose the snake probably wasn't feeding it enough either. i'm sure he did a couple things wrong...not to pick on him...i'm sure he is paying for his mistakes dearly.

interesting about the dogs...thanks again.

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The couple in Fl are being investigated on charges of homicide from what I've heard, and that the burm was a "cover". Of course, that doesn't promote the anti-snake agenda, so that's not reported.

I don't believe for one moment that the burm was the cause of that little girl's death.

You could also make the racks into locking racks, then have the lock on the door. Not because I think they're necasary, but to soothe their minds about the snakes staying locked up.

You could also do something really dumb like put a piece of rope across the threshold of the snake room door, and tell them the old wive's tale about snakes not crossing ropes. It's not true, but whatever makes them feel better.

And it's true, the family dog kills more people in a single year than have been killed by ALL pythons in the US in 30 years. So baby is safe.

It's actually pretty unlikely that the burmese python did what it was accused of. It was only 8.5 feet long and emaciated, and the child was like 2 years old! There was an abusive boyfriend on drugs in the household.
Police weren't permitted inside until they got a warrant. You do the math on that one.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The couple in Fl are being investigated on charges of homicide from what I've heard, and that the burm was a "cover". Of course, that doesn't promote the anti-snake agenda, so that's not reported.

I don't believe for one moment that the burm was the cause of that little girl's death.

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wow. i've read quite a bit about it, but have never ran across that idea...that sucks.

I have a 10 month old son who never has seen my snakes yet! My snake room is in the basement so their is no chance of him going down there! My Mom does not like snakes but has never said anything about them killing the baby! I don't think you can ever change their minds. They are set in their ways! You need to ignore the In Laws! If they are anything like mine, they are crazy! LOL!

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Originally Posted by jsharpie77

wow. i've read quite a bit about it, but have never ran across that idea...that sucks.

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The family was being investigated for drug use when a social service worker documented the cage with out a top or secure lock so I would say it could go either way. The family was obviously careless and neglectful and deserve what's coming to them even if there was no intentional act being covered up. The world of herp lovers, however, does not deserve to take the rap for these people's carelessness and unfortunately it is only going to tarnish the image that your family sees.

Did you catch this on the bottom of the article?


"Pledge not to buy exotic animals"


So lame

Exotic animals can be alluring. Sugar gliders have big, adorable eyes and tigers and snakes are tantalizingly dangerous.

But the exotic animal industry takes wild animals from their natural environments and trying to domesticate an exotic animal can be dangerous for both animal and human.

Exotic animals need special care -- like specific diets, a controlled climate, and miles to roam -- that few households can give. When people realize they can't properly care for their exotic pet, they sometimes release the pet into an unnatural habitat, endangering neighbors and the animal.

These wild animals can carry diseases like herpes and hepatitis A. In some tragic incidents, these "pets" have directly harmed their owners, like the recent case of a Florida toddler killed by her family's python.

Wild animals belong in the wild. For humans and animals, pledge not to support the exotic pet industry and not to buy exotic pets.

EDIT: Also, I didn't know I could catch herpes from an exotic pet

I know the feeling. My roommate is going through a nasty custody battle with his ex over their daughter, and she's trying to use my snakes against him in court. So he goes before this mediator two weeks ago and this lady says "I don't have any problem with snakes but I don't like this boa constrictor because they constrict." I'm glad I wasn't there because I probably would have lost it. Just like Ball Pythons I can't find a single incident of a human being killed by a BCI. Every incident since 1990 has involved Burms, Retics, or African Rocks.
And on top of that all my snakes are in a separate locked room! People who fear snakes just hear the word boa or python and think baby killer.

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Originally Posted by granitestate

Did you catch this on the bottom of the article?


"Pledge not to buy exotic animals"


So lame

Exotic animals can be alluring. Sugar gliders have big, adorable eyes and tigers and snakes are tantalizingly dangerous.

But the exotic animal industry takes wild animals from their natural environments and trying to domesticate an exotic animal can be dangerous for both animal and human.

Exotic animals need special care -- like specific diets, a controlled climate, and miles to roam -- that few households can give. When people realize they can't properly care for their exotic pet, they sometimes release the pet into an unnatural habitat, endangering neighbors and the animal.

These wild animals can carry diseases like herpes and hepatitis A. In some tragic incidents, these "pets" have directly harmed their owners, like the recent case of a Florida toddler killed by her family's python.

Wild animals belong in the wild. For humans and animals, pledge not to support the exotic pet industry and not to buy exotic pets.

EDIT: Also, I didn't know I could catch herpes from an exotic pet

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Humane Society propaganda. Check out their site, that sort of anti-reptile rhetoric is all over it. I saw this show about reptiles on Animal Planet a few weeks ago and they had a rep from this group called the "Captive Wild Animal Protection Campaign", which basically believes that the keeping of all wild animals as pets should be outlawed, and they went as far as to characterize reptile keepers as hoarders.

I would agree that there is more dogs sending kids in the hospital everyday and I have never heard of a BP hurting a human.

I work for a vet and I see at least 1 case of children bit by a dog in the face every month where we need to euthanize the dog, if not more.

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Originally Posted by 55Ballin

I did a quick look about and I could only find one incident with a pet snake (8.5' Burmese Python) and a child and it was a result of the snakes enclosure not only a lock, but a cover.
http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-w...rged-together/

Furthermore, I found another site where in April and May of this year alone, there were 11 children injured and 1 child killed by dogs. How many grandparents are concerned about dogs in the house?
http://www.mothersagainstdogchaining.org/attacks.html

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Please don't bring issues about Burmese Pythons into a thread about potential dangers of Ball Pythons. They are two completely different things and should not be related due to risk of confusion.

There has not been a case of a ball python killing a human being.

Yeah. Ball Pythons don't eat people. It's pretty simple.

Don't starve your snake and I think the baby will be completely safe, and hopefully grow up without an irrational fear of these beautiful animals.

Grandparents can be over reactive, My mom threw a total hissy fit when my daughter was born and I didn't get rid of my cat.
She almost stroked out when she found out that the cat started sleeping with my daughter when she was about 6 months old.

The bottom line is it's your baby, as long as your reptiles are securely housed, no worries.

Congrats on the new baby :)

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Please don't bring issues about Burmese Pythons into a thread about potential dangers of Ball Pythons. They are two completely different things and should not be related due to risk of confusion.

There has not been a case of a ball python killing a human being.

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I am well aware of the difference and I understand they should not be related. I was using it as an example to exemplify my point in that it is safer to have a snake than a dog because statistics show hundreds of incidents involving dogs in a year to one incident involving a snake. I was not in anyway saying a ball python was involved.

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Originally Posted by 55Ballin

I am well aware of the difference and I understand they should not be related. I was using it as an example to exemplify my point in that it is safer to have a snake than a dog because statistics show hundreds of incidents involving dogs in a year to one incident involving a snake. I was not in anyway saying a ball python was involved.

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And there's thousands of cases of children being killed by their own parents every year. Of course a dog is going to be more of a risk than a snake, snakes aren't as commonly kept, snakes aren't loose roaming around the house like a dog, etc. Any number of things can be a risk to a child, I wouldn't be concerned about a BP, there's many ways to secure a cage and zero reason why an infant should ever be around a pet snake IMO. Be responsible, keep your snake area clean and locked up and no problem.

much appreciated everyone! it's kind of hard proving a negative. there seems to be no documentation on ball pythons and babies because, well, there's nothing to document.

so, if i had any doubts at all they have been eliminated. i will lock my rack though it's more for their peace of mind...but that's worth the little effort.

thanks all! :gj:

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Originally Posted by llovelace

Congrats on the new baby :)

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thanks!!!!

Congrats on the new Herper. My wife and I are adding a tricycle motor to the family soon as well..

Remember

1: snake turds don't go in mouths.
2: snakes don't in mouths
3: have fun and remember snakes are no more harmful to your baby than they are to you..

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Congrats on the new Herper. My wife and I are adding a tricycle motor to the family soon as well..

Remember

1: snake turds don't go in mouths.
2: snakes don't in mouths
3: have fun and remember snakes are no more harmful to your baby than they are to you..

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thanks!! great words of wisdom. i think i'll show that to all of these concerned grandparents (the little fart has 8 grandparents/great grandparents! - i mean, lucky kid, but 8?) and, oh yes, he is a future herper. congrats on your new one!!!!

A boa did kill a man in Papillion, NE (near me) recently. It was accidental. The man had a habit of carrying the snake draped around his neck constantly. He took it out to show it off to a girlfriend, put it around his neck, and the snake got nervous and tightened up. It cut off his airway. The girlfriend was useless, so nothing was done until paramedics arrived, and it was too late.

The boa's going to the Henry Doorly zoo, thankfully it wasn't euthanized, as it was clear that no aggression was intended. It was only about 8.5 feet long.

The 8 foot rule for constrictors should always, ALWAYS be respected. If it's over 8 feet, don't take liberties with it--have someone else who's knowledgeable present when you handle it, or you could wind up as another statistic that's a black mark against those who keep large constrictors. Any constrictor over 8 feet needs to be kept in a locked cage. It IS a potentially dangerous animal. Incidents may be rare, but the only way to keep them rare is to follow safe handling practices...and don't put constrictors around your NECK.

But no, to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been an incident with a ball python. I heard a RUMOR years ago that some guy put a big female ball around his neck while cleaning cages in a cold basement, and it tightened up and cut off blood flow in his carotid artery, killing him--but I have never seen any documentation to verify it.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

A boa did kill a man in Papillion, NE (near me) recently. It was accidental. The man had a habit of carrying the snake draped around his neck constantly. He took it out to show it off to a girlfriend, put it around his neck, and the snake got nervous and tightened up. It cut off his airway. The girlfriend was useless, so nothing was done until paramedics arrived, and it was too late.

The boa's going to the Henry Doorly zoo, thankfully it wasn't euthanized, as it was clear that no aggression was intended. It was only about 8.5 feet long.

The 8 foot rule for constrictors should always, ALWAYS be respected. If it's over 8 feet, don't take liberties with it--have someone else who's knowledgeable present when you handle it, or you could wind up as another statistic that's a black mark against those who keep large constrictors. Any constrictor over 8 feet needs to be kept in a locked cage. It IS a potentially dangerous animal. Incidents may be rare, but the only way to keep them rare is to follow safe handling practices...and don't put constrictors around your NECK.

But no, to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been an incident with a ball python. I heard a RUMOR years ago that some guy put a big female ball around his neck while cleaning cages in a cold basement, and it tightened up and cut off blood flow in his carotid artery, killing him--but I have never seen any documentation to verify it.

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No matter what the cause, once anything constricts you so that your artery blood flow to the brain is cut off completely, you have only about 2-3 seconds of conciseness to resolve the issue. Once you are unconscious, if the the blood flow remains restricted you only have 3-4 minutes to live.

This applies to rope, snakes, or human beings trying to strangle you.

Just something to keep in mind when it comes to having something, anything that could potential effect a strangle around your neck. It isnt a large amount of time and the more you struggle without relief the closer you will be to the 2 seconds.

I haven't been around here in a quite a while, since my BP plans are still on hold. I now have a 7-month-old daughter, and my mother was giving me crap about wanting a BP. She doesn't like snakes at all, so she's already biased. But after talking about it a bit, she eased off a bit from total condemnation to just not understanding why I'd want one.

It's not like she has any role in the decision whether I get one or not, I don't live in her house and her opinion on this is totally irrelevant.

But my two 60-lb greyhounds and our two cats are her "grandpets". Go figure.

All of the previous posters are exactly right...it's more about managing the child's access to and interactions with the animal than the animal itself. Young children shouldn't be left unattended with pets of any kind, for the safety of both the child and pets.