blue lucy x normal

what would come out?

Well, I'm going to assume you mean a Blue Eyed Leucistic, and it would depend on what type you have...

It could be many things. Elaborate what you are asking and hopefully we can answer your question! :)

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Well, I'm going to assume you mean a Blue Eyed Leucistic, and it would depend on what type you have...

It could be many things. Elaborate what you are asking and hopefully we can answer your question! :)

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yea a blue eyed leucistic to a normal what would it be?? is there hets o what im just confused about it

Unless it's a Vin Russo White Diamond (I think that's the name) then there wouldnt be any hets. You could, depending on what the BEL was made from, produce Lessers/Butters/Mojaves/Phantoms and the only non-visuals would be Vin Russo hets (if the snake came from Vin Russo's line).

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Unless it's a Vin Russo White Diamond (I think that's the name) then there wouldnt be any hets. You could, depending on what the BEL was made from, produce Lessers/Butters/Mojaves/Phantoms and the only non-visuals would be Vin Russo hets (if the snake came from Vin Russo's line).

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Lessers/Butters/Mojaves/Phantoms ? from one snake dam

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Originally Posted by ilikesnakes47

Lessers/Butters/Mojaves/Phantoms ? from one snake dam

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No all those snakes make BELS. We need to know what 2 of those were paired to produce yours. Otherwise no one can answers the outcome

It depends on how it was produced...

The BEL can be made from the following snakes

Lesser
Butter
Mojave
Phantom
Vin Russo Het

The super of all of those is a BEL, aside from the Phantom (totally different non-white snake) and the Mojave (faint head coloration). However mixes of any (other than mojave/phantom) can produce the BEL.

So if your BEL were produced by lessers all offspring would be lessers. If it's a lesser/mojave then 50% of the offspring would be lesser and 50% mojave. It depends on what genetics went into making the snake.

You arent just going to breed a BEL to a normal and make all 5 of those lines, the most you will get will be 2 different lines, it all depends on how the BEL was made.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

It depends on how it was produced...

The BEL can be made from the following snakes

Lesser
Butter
Mojave
Phantom
Vin Russo Het

The super of all of those is a BEL, aside from the Phantom (totally different non-white snake) and the Mojave (faint head coloration). However mixes of any (other than mojave/phantom) can produce the BEL.

So if your BEL were produced by lessers all offspring would be lessers. If it's a lesser/mojave then 50% of the offspring would be lesser and 50% mojave. It depends on what genetics went into making the snake.

You arent just going to breed a BEL to a normal and make all 5 of those lines, the most you will get will be 2 different lines, it all depends on how the BEL was made.

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ahh ok my fault now i got it thank u very much

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Unless it's a Vin Russo White Diamond (I think that's the name) then there wouldnt be any hets.

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Technically they are all hets, visual hets with the homozygous form being a BEL. ;)

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Technically they are all hets, visual hets with the homozygous form being a BEL. ;)

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Not only that, but the Het russo is actually a codom color morph, not a true "het" so to speak . They are sort of like the fire, and do amazing things when crossed with a Phantom :bow:

Really? I always thought they had that distinctive something (that yellow look), but imagined it to be just based on the individual snake due to the "het" designation.

And yes, I probably should have put down that they were all heterozygous, however for the most part this community tends to use "het" for things that are non-visual heterozygous animals and whatever individual name for visual heterozygous animals. Sorry for the confusion, but it seems that the industry itself likes to use terms exclusively, then jump back using them in full whenever they feel that it suits their interest.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Not only that, but the Het russo is actually a codom color morph, not a true "het" so to speak . They are sort of like the fire, and do amazing things when crossed with a Phantom :bow:

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uhhh no it is a "true het" since it is heterozygous ( 1 copy of the gene )

There in lies the issue with the industry. We refer to heterozygous non-visuals as "hets" and all visual heterozygous snakes (aside from Vin Russo Het, correct me if there are more) as some name. Due to the continual usage of "het" solely for non-visuals it creates a kind of conflict when referring to things as heterozygous on a genetic level.

Yes all non-super co-dom morphs are het for whatever super they make, no we do not refer to them as hets. Yes heterozygous albinos are hets, and we refer to them as such.

So when someone uses the term "het" for something we are trained to think it is heterozygous non-visual, however a het BEL is any of those previously described snakes (except perhaps for the Phantom which seemingly magically forms a BEL with certain other morphs in the "complex" and not with the others or itself).

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

uhhh no it is a "true het" since it is heterozygous ( 1 copy of the gene )

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You should reread my post.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

this link should be stickied or something so we dont get 5 trillion threads a day of " what do i get....." or if i put X and Y together what do i get?"

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

You should reread my post.

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you should learn what words mean then, because the way i worded it is 100% correct. just because it displays a trait from 1 gene doesnt change the fact that it IS heterozygous.

genetics 101: in something with 2 genes on 1 locus, its either heterozygous (1 copy) or homozygous (2 copies)

edit: pretty much what oxy said, and yet you thanked his post when it said the same thing as mine?

It is possible to have a BEL from a Lesser, butter, mojo, phantom, right? Or would the phantom mess it up? How would you prove that? Wow. A 4 combo super. How HOT would that be!?

since they all share the same gene locus you could only have any 2 of them present in the same animal at once.

with that said, i know phantom x mojave isnt a solid white BEL. not sure if ther other phantom combos have really been done yet tho. i think phantom x lesser produced a BEL tho, if so id assume phantom x butter would as well since butter = lesser.

phantom x phantom is also not a solid white BEL either

Those two arent just not solid white BELs (unlike homozygous Mojaves, which are not solid white BELs) they're completely not BELs. The Phantom/Mojave forms a gorgeous snake called the Purple Passion. The Super Phantom is awesome (I like the Purple Passion more, though)

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

you should learn what words mean then, because the way i worded it is 100% correct. just because it displays a trait from 1 gene doesnt change the fact that it IS heterozygous.

genetics 101: in something with 2 genes on 1 locus, its either heterozygous (1 copy) or homozygous (2 copies)

edit: pretty much what oxy said, and yet you thanked his post when it said the same thing as mine?

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Look at what I qouted, and then read mine. I am not saying you are wrong at all, I know very well what you are talking about, perhaps more than you, you are very right, but you have not gotten the meaning to my post and correcting information to something I was not telling. And actually Oxy agree'd to what both of said, I take it he/she knows what I am talking about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Look at what I qouted, and then read mine. I am not saying you are wrong at all, I know very well what you are talking about, perhaps more than you, you are very right, but you have not gotten the meaning to my post and correcting information to something I was not telling. And actually Oxy agree'd to what both of said, I take it he/she knows what I am talking about.

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ah the wording at the front was pretty confusing. but yea im a bio major soo its a safe bet i know a fair amount dealing with genetics. most people misstate lots of genetic stuff on here so i was just trying to make it more clear, if that makes any sense lol.

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

ah the wording at the front was pretty confusing. but yea im a bio major soo its a safe bet i know a fair amount dealing with genetics. most people misstate lots of genetic stuff on here so i was just trying to make it more clear, if that makes any sense lol.

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Its fine :P Now... what I was Stating was, Oxy pointed out that you would not get any "hets" from a bel, unless it is a "het" russo. I have owned a russo Bel, and know a good bit about them. Now of course all codom morphs are Het for the super form, but in the Bp world I was stating that we use the term het for Ressesive morphs, and not in fact color or pattern morphs. Just like we do not call the pastel, a Het Super pastel. Yes, it is, but you can tell a pastel from a normal. Oxy stated that you would only get hets if the Russo gene is involved, and that may confuse newer members, so I was simply stating that even though it is called a het russo, it is indeed what we call Codom morphs because it effects color, and you can tell the difference between normals and Het russos. If you bred a het russo to a normal, you would not get Possible hets, you would know what you have. It is a name flaw really.

Make sense?

yup we use a lot of slang genetic terms in the ball ypthon world, co-dom doesnt exist its really incomplete dominant >_< but yea i get what youre saying now. interesting about the russos tho. from the pics i cant really see much different from a normal as well. is it that much more noticable in person like with yellow bellys and spotnoses?

They're yellow. Almost like a fire. At least that is what I gathered based on what I have seen. Considering many normals can be in that same range of yellow I assumed, at first, that the yellow was the same kind of yellow on normals. However between the posts pointing out that it is visual, and the pictures, the only assumption I am left with is that the yellow is the trait that they show (like a fire).

It's very noticeable in these pictures:

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/nss-f...tLuckyNorm.jpg
http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/nss-f...etLuckys04.JPG

Also I'm glad you guys sorted that out, haha, I was just reading the posts and thought I'd have to come in here and explain it. I too am a "bio major" (biochem/neuroscience hoping to do research and go on to an MD/PhD program for neuroscience) and while I just got out of my first year of college I did end up having a little genetics, and talked a lot more with my teacher about the topic, thanks to BPs.

oh wow, thats super noticeable in that first pic