Which Caramel Albinos lines...

I have been looking around at caramel albinos for quite sometime and i have been reading at different lines but i havent been able to visually see the difference let alone know which caramel line is which...
so i turn to you guys :)

Would you be able to post pics of the different caramels, and lines that they are...
Also your guys' opinion on which line is the best, meaning which one has little or no kinking... which one holds the darker colours when they get older as well

Thanks !

Ditch the Caramel idea and go....

ULTRAMEL!!!!

No kinking, and richer colors.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Ditch the Caramel idea and go....

ULTRAMEL!!!!

No kinking, and richer colors.....

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Thats a good idea :D

But unless you got 20k your screwed :)

-Daniel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Ditch the Caramel idea and go....

ULTRAMEL!!!!

No kinking, and richer colors.....

---

There was a good post my gf had mentioned to me, about Greg Graziani and how he incubates spiders, caramels, super cinny's (any of the morphs known to have a physical or neurological defect) at 86f. And since he had been doing that, none of above mentioned morphs, have come out with any of the defects.

But again, if you have 20k....yah, Utramel.

First off read this....post 23

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...=102451&page=3

I also believe your 20k dollar statement is grossly exaggerated....

I dont believe they are anywhere near that price.

I would guess that 20k is double to even more than triple what they are selling for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AwBaillie

There was a good post my gf had mentioned to me, about Greg Graziani and how he incubates spiders, caramels, super cinny's (any of the morphs known to have a physical or neurological defect) at 86f. And since he had been doing that, none of above mentioned morphs, have come out with any of the defects.

But again, if you have 20k....yah, Utramel.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by iCandiExotics

Thats a good idea :D

But unless you got 20k your screwed :)

-Daniel

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Holly snaps:O for 20K you might as well by a coral ball... or a better living environment:rofl:

$20k for an Ultramel?

$3500-$5500 is more reasonable depending on where you get them from!

So it IS even more than triple....

Thanks David

I knew 20k was hogwash

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Originally Posted by Akua_Ko_Nalu

$20k for an Ultramel?

$3500-$5500 is more reasonable depending on where you get them from!

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So far (so far!!) I don't like the pattern/color of the ultramels quite as much as the caramels. (From what I've seen, anyway.) But, I am sure selective breeding could change that with time ...

I'll echo the OP's question, though: Assuming that one did not wish to jump into the ultramel project this year, whether for financial, aesthetic or other reasons, but wished to acquire a T+ albino ball python, are there any caramel albino lines that are known for being exceptional in one way or another? For example, in the way in which the BHB line of clowns is more high-contrast and reduced-pattern than most?

you cannot beat the "caramel + ultramel" COMBO. you need both, combined they are amazing! when bred together they make the best of both morphs look even better, but you need both to do it.

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Originally Posted by RoyalVariations

you cannot beat the "caramel + ultramel" COMBO. you need both, combined they are amazing! when bred together they make the best of both morphs look even better, but you need both to do it.

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I would like to see the proof in the pudding of the above statement. Pics please.

Vin Russo actually made a caramel Ultramel. He calls it the Camarillo ball. Here is a link leading to the backround of how he produced it and pictures comparing to the ultramel and caramel.http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/pythons/list.nhtml

You have to scroll down a little bit to see.

if i understand that text right (not 100%sure) is the camarillo a mix out of 2 different caramel lines (the rootbeer like and the yellow like)- not caramel and ultramel--

Vins Text is confusing and not correct. Vins Camarilos are of normal Bell line Caramel blood crossed with the snake now called Crider balls wich are probably the same morph as the Ultramel. The combo (double morph and 1/16) is one of the most amazing morphs out there. Here is a Crider ball next to a Ultramel.

Ryan Young

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/DSC09557.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Ditch the Caramel idea and go....

ULTRAMEL!!!!

No kinking, and richer colors.....

---

I LOVE THE ULTRAMEL!! one of my many dream morphs, However, I LOVE caramels as well.
And im actually in th eprocess of saving up for an ultramel :) ,(so excited)

But i have had my mind set on caramels as well, and i would just like some opinions on the different lines, and which ones are better :)

I thought the ultramel werent compatiable with ANY of the caramel lines??

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Originally Posted by BlueCinder

I thought the ultramel werent compatiable with ANY of the caramel lines??

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They aren't...

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

They aren't...

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thought so ...

@ BlueCinder,
Hope this helps bro.

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...ad.php?t=12137

I thought the discussion with Greg Graziani was in a forum, but as my gf told me again, it was in an interview on Reptile Radio, that he explains on lower temp incubating of the morph(s) in question, seem to lead to none of the physical or neurological issues.

Its worth the listen if you have the time, should be the first broadcast currently on there, titled something along the lines of "Special Announcement from Greg Graziani."

I cook EVERYTHING at 86 degrees. I personally don't think that incubation temps are the chief factor in Caramel kinking -- if a factor at all. All my Caramel/Caramel combos are Nerd-TSK out-crosses. They look real nice and no kinks to date.

However, in my opinion the Upscale line is the best looking and also has a good rep for very little kinking -- even when line bred. I also, as hard as it may be for many to fathom, I PREFER his color hues (and Caramels as a whole) to Ultamels. I find Ultras to be an opaque colored morph as an adult. And for me, ADULT colors/appearance are the litmus test for any morph or combo!! Hatchlings are cool and all -- but show me an animals at 800+ grams!! I DO like Ultras :gj: and will surely work the gene into some of my projects in the future. We don't KNOW yet what Ultramel combos will look like considering only one has been made to date -- and that is the stunning Camarilo produced by Vin Russo.

Below is my Upscale breeder male. I am proving some pos hets with him this year. Last year I made a codom het male that will be paired with some hets and codom morphs this fall. The goal is to get all 3 lines working together -- TSK/Upscale/Nerd. :D

I believe OUTCROSSING and working with the RIGHT/BEST lines of Caramels during outcrossing is the key to solving most of the kinking problems. Because kinking is almost certainly genetic in origin, total elimination of kinking is doubtful.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../caramel_2.jpg

The Snakes in my picture are 1,200 plus larger one and 700+ on the small one in case anyone was curious.

Ryan Young

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AwBaillie

There was a good post my gf had mentioned to me, about Greg Graziani and how he incubates spiders, caramels, super cinny's (any of the morphs known to have a physical or neurological defect) at 86f. And since he had been doing that, none of above mentioned morphs, have come out with any of the defects.

But again, if you have 20k....yah, Utramel.

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I always incubated that and never had any problems with my cinnies and caramels so far

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