Has 8Ballpythons closed down???

Hey Everyone

You may have read my thread under enquiries but I would like to know if 8Ballpythons has closed down?

I am owed a refund but not been able to get Adam to respond to my emails:mad:

He may just be super busy fighing the Reptile Bans.

Check out this guys struggle, its been 2 years!

Adam also has 800 from another guy

Last time I head was he was selling/has sold off his collection to help fight the legislation over here.

Its very possible that his site is down.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

He may just be super busy fighing the Reptile Bans.

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This is so wrong. I just read through your thread trying to get a hold of him. Regardless if he is busy doing this or that, he should at least take the time to contact you AND give you a refund. Two and a half years is just ridiculous. This really rubs me the wrong way.

Being busy fighting a bill is a lame excuse.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

This is so wrong. I just read through your thread trying to get a hold of him. Regardless if he is busy doing this or that, he should at least take the time to contact you AND give you a refund. Two and a half years is just ridiculous. This really rubs me the wrong way.

Being busy fighting a bill is a lame excuse.

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Just keep in mind that being busy fighting a bill wasn't HIS excuse. It's just something thrown out there by another member.
There's 2 sides to every story and we're really only seeing one. The OP is the only one that an explaination is owed to.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

The OP is the only one that an explaination is owed to.

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I will probably get burned by saying this but, I disagree. Even if 8ballpythons as a business has shut down, we as a community should be given an explanation as well.

I not looking for gritty details. I just feel that the people who are owed should be repaid immediately with compensation for taking so long. I also feel the reptile community should be notified (through existing threads) that the transaction is complete and given a reason why it took so long. Adam is supposedly representing the reptile industry. Regardless of his previous good guy status these threads show that he has essentially scammed these people out of their money. I personally do not want someone like that representing me. I understand every one makes mistakes and messes up but to me 2.5 years is to long to keep someone's money. I have not seen one post where Adam has explained why it could possibly take 2.5 yrs. to issue a refund or to send the animals.

Personally I need a good explanation to feel comfortable with him representing the reptile industry. How can I feel comfortable donating to his organization? How will I know the money is going where it is supposed to go? Until I can feel comfortable with him as a representative I will give to organizations that I can feel comfortable with.

I followed this guys struggle to get back what he is "owed" for awhile now, and although he says he has all the receipts, emails etc to prove his claims he hasn't showed anything. His refund should be given immediately if he has the proof of it being owed and Adam should give him an explanation, but I also feel Adam shouldn't have to speak up until the proper proof is brought forth, maybe this is the reason for Adam not coming forth?? All we have heard is this individuals story and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and bashing Adam without anything other than one sides story. Personally if I am owed 5 grand and have proof that I am owed that money, and I haven't been able to contact that person for over two years, all my proof will be on these forums for everyone to see. Maybe Adam is in the wrong here, maybe not, lets get proof before bashing though. (This is aimed towards the long discussion going on about this topic on another forum, not here)

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

He may just be super busy fighing the Reptile Bans.

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Just to clear this up, when I said that I had thought that he had been trying for a few days to get ahold of Adam, and was trying to say that he could be out of town. Did not know that it has been a two year long issue.

I just think that Adam is a good guy, but I have not followed the story to this or any other storys to him owing people so I probably should have not responded.

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Originally Posted by PrototypePythons

I followed this guys struggle to get back what he is "owed" for awhile now, and although he says he has all the receipts, emails etc to prove his claims he hasn't showed anything. His refund should be given immediately if he has the proof of it being owed and Adam should give him an explanation, but I also feel Adam shouldn't have to speak up until the proper proof is brought forth, maybe this is the reason for Adam not coming forth?? All we have heard is this individuals story and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and bashing Adam without anything other than one sides story. Personally if I am owed 5 grand and have proof that I am owed that money, and I haven't been able to contact that person for over two years, all my proof will be on these forums for everyone to see. Maybe Adam is in the wrong here, maybe not, lets get proof before bashing though. (This is aimed towards the long discussion going on about this topic on another forum, not here)

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What about the other two people on the Fauna thread who made similar claims?

I agree - proof is needed. But the silence from the accused is helping things down the road of condemnation.

Plus it was on this forum where Adam acknowledged (without going into details) that there was an issue. How hard is it to take 5 minutes and either deny or confirm the issue?

Before someone mouths off and says it's none of my business - I agree - it's everyone's business. There may be a day when the 8ball website and promos are fired up again. Potential future customers should be made aware if there are issues.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

The OP is the only one that an explaination is owed to.

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If Adam never enters the snake breeding business - yes.

If he does - no. Every potential future customer and every person thinking of donating to NatPet should be aware if something smells like fish here.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

If Adam never enters the snake breeding business - yes.

If he does - no. Every potential future customer and every person thinking of donating to NatPet should be aware if something smells like fish here.

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Bull... A private transaction between two people is just that. A PRIVATE transaction. YOU are not owed an explanation, I am not owed an explanation, NOBODY but the individuals involved in the transaction require any explanation at all and CERTAINLY not that kangaroo court know as the BOI...

If there is any kind of impropriety involved on either side, there are plenty of legal avenues to pursue. The only reason to bring this up at all after two and a half years is to drag Adam through the mud. If the OP doesn't like the way be was treated, he can get a lawyer.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Bull... A private transaction between two people is just that. A PRIVATE transaction. YOU are not owed an explanation, I am not owed an explanation, NOBODY but the individuals involved in the transaction require any explanation at all and CERTAINLY not that kangaroo court know as the BOI...

If there is any kind of impropriety involved on either side, there are plenty of legal avenues to pursue. The only reason to bring this up at all after two and a half years is to drag Adam through the mud. If the OP doesn't like the way be was treated, he can get a lawyer.

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Those were my thoughts for the most part. I think that if he owes him and takes care of it then there's no need for lenghty explaination for the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Bull... A private transaction between two people is just that. A PRIVATE transaction. YOU are not owed an explanation, I am not owed an explanation, NOBODY but the individuals involved in the transaction require any explanation at all and CERTAINLY not that kangaroo court know as the BOI...

If there is any kind of impropriety involved on either side, there are plenty of legal avenues to pursue. The only reason to bring this up at all after two and a half years is to drag Adam through the mud. If the OP doesn't like the way be was treated, he can get a lawyer.

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So if you send me $2K for some animals and I don't deliver you'll keep your trap shut and not bring it up here or somewhere else? You'll agree that in such an example you'll deal with my theft in silence?

While some people may remember Adam as a good guy and an active, respected member of the community, I can guarantee many, many more will remember the handful of accusations that have recently surfaced and anything with his name on it will be affected.

You can scream bull all you want, but NatPet and any attempts by him in the future to get back into snakes will be affected.

So does he owe an explanation as to what happened? If he cares about his reputation he sure as hell does.

A private transaction between an advertising business and a private party becomes the business of everyone in the community who was affected by it.

The "business of everybody in the community" my left butt cheek, how in the world is this affecting you as a 'member of the community????'... This is a private business transaction between two individuals. There is no 'community' involvement here. I for one am really getting sick and tired of this guilty until proven innocent attitude from the 'community' Whatever problems are going on between Adam and Lockes is THEIR business and it should stay that way. There are just WAY too many people sticking their noses into business that is none of their concern.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

The "business of everybody in the community" my left butt cheek, how in the world is this affecting you as a 'member of the community????'... This is a private business transaction between two individuals. There is no 'community' involvement here. I for one am really getting sick and tired of this guilty until proven innocent attitude from the 'community' Whatever problems are going on between Adam and Lockes is THEIR business and it should stay that way. There are just WAY too many people sticking their noses into business that is none of their concern.

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Why are you getting so worked up over this Mark? Take some time and collect your thoughts. This obviously has struck some sort of nerve with you. If someone is getting rolled by someone who has a product to sell or a venture to promote in this community - than we all should know about it. Your left and right butt cheeks may not care but a lot of people do,

It's my business as a member of this community. I have been warned and have warned people about doing business with people who have done wrong by others. It's mutually beneficial to all of us.

If Locke is wrong, or the other person is in the wrong about their deals - it will come out.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and not share good and bad experiences with other people in this hobby - go ahead. As another on this forum once stated - that's a warm and comfortable place.

On the other hand two people have now come forward with unsubstantiated allegations. You have responded by accusing one of them of dragging Adam's name through the mud, At some point, if these allegations are found to be true is it still your assertion that the rest of the community have no right to be warned?

As for Locke lying or dragging Adam's name through the mud:

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...t=15367&page=5

Post Number 17.

Couple that with Adam's last post here and draw your own conclusions - or keep your head toasty and warm - it's your call.

I for one, am glad when these types of issues are brought to the attention of the reptile community et al, because I, (and even YOU) are members of said community and should be made aware of who the scuzbags are so that we can steer the hell clear of 'em.
We remain a self-policed community and without customers airing their grievances with a breeder, there will be more dirtballs than we can shake a stick at (both literally and figuratively).

I saw him recently at a reptile show in PA! He was selling a few remaining snakes...he has money to do refunds...period.

Well, I guess it's just me then. Am I really the only one who is disgusted by this vigilante attitude that seems so prevalent in this industry? Whatever happened to the right of a person to keep their business affairs private?

Why would anyone even bother responding? It appears that Adam has already been tried and convicted in the court of the BOI, even talk of hunting him down and breaking his legs. All on the word of a guy who, so far, has posted no proof. It's completely ridiculous.

Are there any other businesses where the business owner is required to post the details of a private transaction because of public requests to do so? No way, you try something like that with any normal business without some kind of court order and you'd be laughed at. But no, not the reptile business, if you're not right quick to defend yourself from all comers then you're obviously a bad guy with something to hide. Frankly it makes us all look like a bunch of thugs.

If Adam did so something wrong, if he does in fact owe money to people, then that's up to the REAL courts to decide. File a complaint with the better business bureau, file a complaint with the attorney generals office, file a civil lawsuit and get your money back, but for God's sake don't go airing your dirty laundry out in public for the entertainment of a bunch of rubber neckers.

:taz:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Well, I guess it's just me then. Am I really the only one who is disgusted by this vigilante attitude that seems so prevalent in this industry? Whatever happened to the right of a person to keep their business affairs private?

Why would anyone even bother responding? It appears that Adam has already been tried and convicted in the court of the BOI, even talk of hunting him down and breaking his legs. All on the word of a guy who, so far, has posted no proof. It's completely ridiculous.

Are there any other businesses where the business owner is required to post the details of a private transaction because of public requests to do so? No way, you try something like that with any normal business without some kind of court order and you'd be laughed at. But no, not the reptile business, if you're not right quick to defend yourself from all comers then you're obviously a bad guy with something to hide. Frankly it makes us all look like a bunch of thugs.

If Adam did so something wrong, if he does in fact owe money to people, then that's up to the REAL courts to decide. File a complaint with the better business bureau, file a complaint with the attorney generals office, file a civil lawsuit and get your money back, but for God's sake don't go airing your dirty laundry out in public for the entertainment of a bunch of rubber neckers.

:taz:

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That vigilante attitude exists because of the bad deals and bad people that have haunted this hobby.

After being involved in tropical fish and after market car tuning and racing I can safely say I have seen more bad crap go down in the reptile business than any other businesses combined.

There should be no dirty laundry - money is either owed or it isn't. If someone comes out on more than two occasions and admits an error on his part - months ago - and to this day it's still not resolved, it has nothing to do with dirty laundry.

It has everything to do with being an ethical businessman and the discussion here has everything to do with looking out for each other.

I just saw someone from them there.

Personally I've never thought of Adam as a bad guy. Always seemed up front and honest, good guy to do business with.

But if he does owe money to a few people and hasn't paid them, then yeah, that's wrong and yeah, I'd rather know than get scammed, no matter WHO it is.

If someone sells lemon cars, or defective merchandise, I'd rather know so they don't get more money out of more people. Why is it better to not say anything and let even more people get scammed? I mean geez.. if I sent off a few grand to a guy and he skipped out and never sent snakes or refunds, and some "bud" of mine said "Oh yeah, he got me for $2K too" I'd be a little ticced off that the guy didn't think to tell me. Maybe you're okay with getting scammed because no one told you about the thefts of money? If so, please get with me, I'll reccomend a few people to send all your extra cash to, so you won't be burdened with it. Myself, I prefer to send my money to honest sellers, with good reputations.

In the reptile world, you sell on your reputation ideally. If people have great deals, they talk. But if you screw folks over, they talk too. Would you prefer if no one said anything about any deal they ever did, good or bad? Or is it only okay to say good stuff, but hide the bad? Or is it only when it's a "good guy"?

Personally, I prefer to see proof of a failed transaction before I decide for myself whether there was a scam or not. Since I haven't seen proof from any party whether this was a legit deal that turned into a scam... or whether it was a completed deal, or refund.. I can't form any opinion on THIS particular deal. I fall back on the facts that I've had good dealings with Adam, and have gotten emails from him regarding other things(not related to buying/selling reptiles).

But in general, heck yes I want to hear about people getting scammed and who it was and for how much etc! Otherwise all the Nigerian bank scams would still be working on everyone!

Adam never denied that he scammed this guy. He got on the last thread and said, 'this is my other email account and everything is ready on my part' (that was 2 years after the fact if I'm thinking right). I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but with an educated guess, I'm thinking he acknowledges that he screwed that guy over and is apparently ready to send the snakes at any moment????....which I'm sure he already sold those snakes to someone else and doubled his money on them. I sure as heck doubt he's been taking care of them for all these years out of the goodness of his heart. I'm really PO'd about this. Had he not got on and said that, I would be iffy if he really did that or not without proof, but since he did, it's evident to me that he owes people money. When I hear that he's done this to several people, that is really upsetting, and believable since his reputation is already shattered. No business owner has the right to do that to ANYONE and get away with it, regardless how fantastic their business/products are.

And to the others who also agree this is wrong, you are absolutely right. There is no reason this issue should be kept under wraps. It seems like people want to protect him because he's "such an awesome guy", but that's obviously not the case anymore and people just won't accept that. If someone scammed me I would post about it, if someone scammed someone else I hope they would post about it too so I don't make the same mistake!!!! That's what this entire section of the forums is for!!!! There aren't many legal avenues to take, and the ones you can take are either worthless or cost way too much money. Been there done that. I like what Skiploder said. 'If I screwed you out of 2k I would expect you to be quite because it's a private deal between the two of us.' No repercussions for theft?! Good lord if everyone kept their trap shut about private deals I would be rich. Who wouldn't get in on a deal like that?

Also, I would not support whatever group he is running/supporting. His ethics are clearly not up to par. There is no excuse for his actions.

Rant ended, but I'm still PO'd. I'm glad some people don't let the infamous get away with dirty deeds.

@Stephanie
I'm curious how you could know what's gone on between the OP and Adam since this was last brought up.

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Originally Posted by Lockes

Hey Everyone

You may have read my thread under enquiries but I would like to know if 8Ballpythons has closed down?

I am owed a refund but not been able to get Adam to respond to my emails:mad:

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You need to post all the info you have had with Adam. I spoke to him in person yesterday at a reptile show. He sent you a email a few days ago and has yet to hear back from you. Also you and your partner need to get together and figure out who is getting what money back, since Adam did tell me that you are not in this alone. He wants to refund you and said he will be sending you chunks of money per month but needs to organize things with you and your partner before doing so. Till you post proof of your side of the story people are going to find it hard to believe since every story has two sides. Your side is missing some major parts.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Adam never denied that he scammed this guy. He got on the last thread and said, 'this is my other email account and everything is ready on my part' (that was 2 years after the fact if I'm thinking right). I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but with an educated guess, I'm thinking he acknowledges that he screwed that guy over and is apparently ready to send the snakes at any moment????....which I'm sure he already sold those snakes to someone else and doubled his money on them. I sure as heck doubt he's been taking care of them for all these years out of the goodness of his heart.

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You sure throw that word "scammed" around pretty freely without any proof. You don't know what they may or may not have agreed upon, or what the terms were because neither Lockes nor Adam has ever provided any specifics. Hell, Lockes can't even seem to accurately state if he ordered 15 snakes or 17 snakes, when he paid for them or even how much he paid. He has contradicted himself on those points across several different forums. Rather than getting mad about something that has nothing to do with you directly you should put forth the energy to try and gather enough facts to form an educated opinion rather than going off half cocked based on partial info and hearsay.

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

You sure throw that word "scammed" around pretty freely without any proof. You don't know what they may or may not have agreed upon, or what the terms were because neither Lockes nor Adam has ever provided any specifics. Hell, Lockes can't even seem to accurately state if he ordered 15 snakes or 17 snakes, when he paid for them or even how much he paid. He has contradicted himself on those points across several different forums. Rather than getting mad about something that has nothing to do with you directly you should put forth the energy to try and gather enough facts to form an educated opinion rather than going off half cocked based on partial info and hearsay.

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None of this changes the fact that on three occasions on two forums Adam has admitted owing these two gentlemen money - and he's admitted he's at fault.

Period.

I could care less whether it's $1 or $10,000. He owes, he's owed for awhile and it's come to light on the BOI that he was upside down on business with two other customers.
Adam was a sponsor of this site for along time. If he cares about the future of NatPet and a potential return to the industry then he needs to address these issues himself.
After the BOI thread was started it appears he attempted to contact Andrew and also contact or made amends with the two other individuals who came forth with claims against him.

This has been going on for over two years with promises to resolve the issue now going back at least four months ago. So now he's tried to contact Andrew this week? Wheeeee...............

I wonder where Andrew and his other two customers would have been without the BOI thread..........

For the record - January 22nd of this Year (when asked about Andrew's thread on BPN and why it hasn't been resolved):

It has been ... privately.

Thank you for your concern, it's appreciated.

-adam

For the record - when asked why it had taken two years to resolve (same date):

Yes, several. I take full responsibility. I have apologized to the buyers for my mistakes, and offered a resolution that was happily accepted. All parties involved are moving forward positively and I've taken steps to make sure that my mistakes are not repeated.

-adam

For the record - from March 19 of this year on this forum:

Andrew,

I responded to your PM ... As requested, please use my adam@natpet.org email address for all contacts. My 8ballpythons.com address does not seem to be working reliably and I don't check my PM's here often enough.

I'm all set on this end.

-adam

So Sam - it appears it has taken two years to resolve and it appears Adam took full responsibility for this up until a few months ago.

Does the fact that Andrew has claimed 15 or 17 snakes $4750 or $5000 dollars make a difference when Adam has gone on the record for admitting that this issue has dragged on for over two years and that he take full responsibility?

Or am I dealing in hearsay when I quote directly from Wysocki's posts?

So again, I ask the question. How do you know what's been said and done between the two parties since this has come up again? I only ask because when Adam admitted fault before it was almost 4 months ago. Do you know how many time he's tried to contact the OP to make it right? Do we know how many Cites shipping windows have come and gone do to the OP not responding to requests to set up shipping? Do we know how many times the OP has been contacted by Adam in the last few days?
Oh, you don't actually know the answers to any of those questions? Again, I was just curious how those of you who have deemed him a "scammer" have come to that conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Adam was a sponsor of this site for along time.

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Just need to clarify this - Adam has never been a sponsor of BP.net - nor has anyone. He has paid to run an advertising banner, but we've never had "sponsors".

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

None of this changes the fact that on three occasions on two forums Adam has admitted owing these two gentlemen money - and he's admitted he's at fault.

Period.

I could care less whether it's $1 or $10,000. He owes, he's owed for awhile and it's come to light on the BOI that he was upside down on business with two other customers.
Adam was a sponsor of this site for along time. If he cares about the future of NatPet and a potential return to the industry then he needs to address these issues himself.
After the BOI thread was started it appears he attempted to contact Andrew and also contact or made amends with the two other individuals who came forth with claims against him.

This has been going on for over two years with promises to resolve the issue now going back at least four months ago. So now he's tried to contact Andrew this week? Wheeeee...............

I wonder where Andrew and his other two customers would have been without the BOI thread..........

For the record - January 22nd of this Year (when asked about Andrew's thread on BPN and why it hasn't been resolved):

It has been ... privately.

Thank you for your concern, it's appreciated.

-adam

For the record - when asked why it had taken two years to resolve (same date):

Yes, several. I take full responsibility. I have apologized to the buyers for my mistakes, and offered a resolution that was happily accepted. All parties involved are moving forward positively and I've taken steps to make sure that my mistakes are not repeated.

-adam

For the record - from March 19 of this year on this forum:

Andrew,

I responded to your PM ... As requested, please use my adam@natpet.org email address for all contacts. My 8ballpythons.com address does not seem to be working reliably and I don't check my PM's here often enough.

I'm all set on this end.

-adam

So Sam - it appears it has taken two years to resolve and it appears Adam took full responsibility for this up until a few months ago.

Does the fact that Andrew has claimed 15 or 17 snakes $4750 or $5000 dollars make a difference when Adam has gone on the record for admitting that this issue has dragged on for over two years and that he take full responsibility?

Or am I dealing in hearsay when I quote directly from Wysocki's posts?

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I don't know and neither do you. Perhaps Adam took responsibility because they were working things out and he didn't want to make the guy look bad? Maybe Lockes kept changing the terms they had agreed on, maybe Adam didn't keep to the terms, we don't know because neither side has posted proof of anything.

Just so I'm clear though, when you quote from Adam I'm supposed to accept your interpretation of Adam's statements as gospel; but when I quote the discrepancies in Lockes stories that "doesn't make a difference"? Glad to see that you are keeping an open mind to all of the possibilities here :rolleyes:

Regardless, I'm not inclined to discuss it with you any further. You feel one way and I feel another way; whether or not we agree, neither of us will be changing the others mind on the matter, so it is a moot point.

This is exactly why I save the boi for drunken laughs and go to ball pythons.net for when I'm sober willing to have a real conversation. I am perfectly happy with "should I do business with blah blah blah?" "yes" or "no".

I don't really care if you were ripped off $1 or a million. All I need is a yes or no. To be honest, there are so many good people in the industry if I had one "no" I'd split.

But anyways. I thought stuff like this wasn't allowed on this site :(.

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

You sure throw that word "scammed" around pretty freely without any proof.

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Just because he was "famous" in the ball python world he is incapable of scamming someone? How is not sending the animals or refunding the money for two and a half years not a scam? How hard is it to start refunding the money even if in chunks? He knows the guys information. There is absolutely no excuse to drag it on for years.

Just because of his name you would let it slip as a mistake rather than a scam and give him years before he even considers refunding you????

And I think Adam responding that he knows he owes money (to several people), but hasn't returned it, is plenty of proof. I thought we all knew that he owed people money before this thread was even started??? Skiploder was nice enough to quote Adam on the other forum since people are too lazy to go look for themselves. Adam said everything was resolved three months ago, but it continues today. People called him out as a liar and he had no response for that. Big surprise. If the OP was lying I'm sure Adam would have come up with all the proof he needed to defend himself, or at the VERY least say that it was untrue. Not ONCE did he say the OP was exaggerating or lying (or any other person on any other forum that he owes money to). He acknowledges it, but apparently continues to do nothing about it. The OP isn't the only person he owes money to, so there's no sense in blaming him or calling him out for "running his name through the dirt". Adam is clearly capable of doing that himself.

Something doesn't feel right about this whole thing, and here is why I say this...

I'm a webmaster by trade, and part of building your online reputation involves 1) nurturing your web presence; this means being online, and being consistent with your message. 2) It costs little to nothing to keep your website online, even if there is nothing currently for sale. 3) For an established breeder like Wysocki to take his website down, it sends the wrong message all the way around. 4) At the very, very least, if he is busy like people are suggesting, a simple message posted on his website to that effect would set everyone at ease; but we cant even get that.

While it is true nobody knows his side of the story, I think this very fact is indeed the point. When you put yourself out there and sell 100's or 1000's of reptiles, the community that has supported you deserves answers, and not the silent treatment like everyone has been getting.

A simple post by Wysocki (on bp.net or elsewhere) would suffice, but we cant even get that.

BrandonsBalls

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Just because he was "famous" in the ball python world he is incapable of scamming someone? How is not sending the animals or refunding the money for two and a half years not a scam? How hard is it to start refunding the money even if in chunks? He knows the guys information. There is absolutely no excuse to drag it on for years.

Just because of his name you would let it slip as a mistake rather than a scam and give him years before he even considers refunding you????

And I think Adam responding that he knows he owes money (to several people), but hasn't returned it, is plenty of proof. I thought we all knew that he owed people money before this thread was even started??? Skiploder was nice enough to quote Adam on the other forum since people are too lazy to go look for themselves. Adam said everything was resolved three months ago, but it continues today. People called him out as a liar and he had no response for that. Big surprise. If the OP was lying I'm sure Adam would have come up with all the proof he needed to defend himself, or at the VERY least say that it was untrue. Not ONCE did he say the OP was exaggerating or lying (or any other person on any other forum that he owes money to). He acknowledges it, but apparently continues to do nothing about it. The OP isn't the only person he owes money to, so there's no sense in blaming him or calling him out for "running his name through the dirt". Adam is clearly capable of doing that himself.

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Just to clear something up here. He didn't wait 2yrs for his money. The Cites permits take months sometimes to go through and have a short shipping window, not to mention Winter. If the window is missed by EITHER party, you get to start all over again. He first started asking about the refund (publicly) earlier this year.
Adam is guilty of poor communication in this matter for sure, but a scammer? no. He could have handled the entire situation better, but you also don't know how many times he attempted to contact the OP. The ball seems to have been dropped multiple times on both sides. For someone who has no horse in this race you seem to be pretty high up on your soapbox. Adam has been in contact with Andrew and they have an arrangement that works for both of them. I think the point trying to be made earlier is that you and others had almost none of the facts (as not many were posted) but started throwing very heavy words out there like "scammer" and "thief". None of the contact between them was ever posted, but you went straight for the noose. Adam could have come here and posted, but all that would have done is make this a 20 page thread.
The others he "scammed" were for a Tshirt which has been refunded and Ingrid's Pied. The pied wasn't paid for in full, so she wasn't waiting for a snake to be shipped that was paid for. His communication with her was shaky for sure, but they talked and it's taken care of. He even waived the final payment of approx $200. That sounds like a stand up thing to do for the lack of communication, and it doesn't surprise me that he did it. I'm sure Ingrid will correct me if I'm off on this.
As long as Andrew gets his money back in the manner that they just agreed on, then it's over and done with. I hope that people will remember that his rep was always pretty stellar with tons of regular customers that would offer his name as their first "go to" breeder. As he's out of the game at this point I would hope that the years of fantastic service won't be outweighed by this incident.

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Originally Posted by BrandonsBalls

Something doesn't feel right about this whole thing, and here is why I say this...

I'm a webmaster by trade, and part of building your online reputation involves 1) nurturing your web presence; this means being online, and being consistent with your message. 2) It costs little to nothing to keep your website online, even if there is nothing currently for sale. 3) For an established breeder like Wysocki to take his website down, it sends the wrong message all the way around. 4) At the very, very least, if he is busy like people are suggesting, a simple message posted on his website to that effect would set everyone at ease; but we cant even get that.

While it is true nobody knows his side of the story, I think this very fact is indeed the point. When you put yourself out there and sell 100's or 1000's of reptiles, the community that has supported you deserves answers, and not the silent treatment like everyone has been getting.

A simple post by Wysocki (on bp.net or elsewhere) would suffice, but we cant even get that.

BrandonsBalls

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Why continue a website when you're out of the game? They have a few remaining animals that are being sold at local shows. That's it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Why continue a website when you're out of the game? They have a few remaining animals that are being sold at local shows. That's it.

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Is he out of the game; has he stated this? This is in fact the primary question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Why continue a website when you're out of the game? They have a few remaining animals that are being sold at local shows. That's it.

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If he has, I understand, but I have not seen this; perhaps I missed it.

I think I read he only has some of his ball pythons left, and sold off a lot of the collection to do the anti-legislation thing instead. I'm not able to produce a link to that info, just going from my rather notoriously poor memory. I remember thinking it was very sad to hear he was selling off the snakes, because he had/has a steller collection, produced the most amazing snakes, and always had the best customer service.

Hey

I thought I would update after a long absence.

Unfortunately I last heard from Adam on the 3rd of November even though I have tried to contact him on numerous occasions by phone and email.

I am still owed my money and really don't know what to do as I don't think i will get it back.

Has anyone seen him or have new contact details for him I would be very grateful

I haven't seen anyone mention his name in months. I'm sure there are many people crossing their fingers hoping you get what you are owed, outside of legal action there really isn't much that can be done I'm afraid, and I know how difficult that is to pursue while residing in another country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lockes

Hey

I thought I would update after a long absence.

Unfortunately I last heard from Adam on the 3rd of November even though I have tried to contact him on numerous occasions by phone and email.

I am still owed my money and really don't know what to do as I don't think i will get it back.

Has anyone seen him or have new contact details for him I would be very grateful

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Your going to have a hard time getting your money out of him.

Your best bet is to hope that all the clowns carrying Wysocki's water chip in and pay you back.

I'm pulling for you, I really am. Crap like this reinforces every bad stereotype about this hobby.