Im sure your all sick of this...but i need experienced opinions

Hey everyone, its my 1st post :)
Ive had my BP about a month now, shedding eating and pooing well:gj:

So i bought him labeled as a pastel, but i just am not sure he is, ive taken him to a different shop and got opinions, they think he is but he isnt a clean example thats for sure, Ive compared him to lots of others,

I don't have a good picture of his eye but its generally quite dark but the top half is lighter green/yellow and you can see his pupil clearly all over in the light. These pics where taken 3 weeks ago..

What do you think, help appreciated!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...o/DSC02915.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...o/DSC02913.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...o/DSC02903.jpg

its a pastel, no doubt i have one sith higher yellow on the sides but same kinda darker back. his tank got in the sun a little and he got darker on one side which is funny but for the most part he is beautiful light yellow to dark back. and pastels tend to have light green almost hazel. like light brown in normal light and noticably green in the sun.

but beware!! as i have learned the hard way! no sun! the yellow will turn and thats not what u want in you pastel

i say its a pastel too. im pretty sure...

the picture might be playing tricks, but does he/she have greenish eyes? doens't look like it in the picture which is a trademark of a pastel. truth is tho, your most likly not going to know if its pastel until you breed it, that just one of those snakes that could go eigher way.

but if it was sold as a pastel, i would think it to be a pastel. where'd you get it from?

I got it in a reputable reptile shop here in essex england, theres a few where i live here..I now go to an either better one (tonnes of BP morphs)

He is quite brown on his back as these pics show but has a very white belly,
His eyes depends what light you look at them, Ive not seen normal BP eyes in light before but i would say theres definately a yellow/greeny colour to them.

Held up against the light you can see his pupils clearly and they look green. The light upper half of his eye is what a man at a good shop identified as usually being in the pastel gene, but you see many "light" normals thats why its so difficult!

I think your right though, won't know until he is bred :(

with what you said, im going to say pastel. don't worry about it

See, I'm not sure. I don't see the white on the lips that I look for in pastels. What I can see of the belly in some of the shots, the white doesn't go all the way to the sides like my pastels do. I don't even see any blushing on the head.

Just from these photo's I'd lean towards "pastel-ish", but probably not a pastel.

Here's the question that you need to ask yourself though - if you're planning on breeding - what is your goal? Is it to produce really nice pastels, or just produce pastels for the sake or producing pastels?

If it's to produce really nice pastels, he wouldn't be the one I'd use as my breeder. Sure, you could breed him to a really light normal and try to improve his looks (if he is indeed a pastel), but just the fact that you have to question if he is or isn't....well, that sort of tells you whether he's the quality you want to breed or not.

Here's an example of the traits I'm looking for even in a somewhat brown baby. This happens to be a lemon pastel, that tend to go through an ugly duckling stage before they develop into a swan - even though he's brownish in this picture - his lips fade up, and he has a faded head:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...a/IMG_4496.jpg

This is him after he got some size on him.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...a/DSC01622.jpg

He's now in Ed's collection (Freakie_frog) and he can post some pictures of what he looks like now if he sees this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sookieball

its a pastel, no doubt i have one sith higher yellow on the sides but same kinda darker back. his tank got in the sun a little and he got darker on one side which is funny but for the most part he is beautiful light yellow to dark back. and pastels tend to have light green almost hazel. like light brown in normal light and noticably green in the sun.

but beware!! as i have learned the hard way! no sun! the yellow will turn and thats not what u want in you pastel

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The sun has nothing to do with the color change on ball pythons. But a tank should never have any part of it in direct sunlight, because of the "oven" effect of the tank in sunlight.

I wasn't planning anything yet really, although it would be good to breed with spider for bumblebees, I bought him over a normal because i preffered him, (so my gripe is i payed an extra 60 pounds!!)

When you just need to know you need to...You know!! Thanks for the input though! seems to be mixed opinions :-s

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=62699

nice link ty.

Not sure about the other traits but he definately has the eyes of a pastel. Lookin at that link of the eyes of some of those pastels his are just like it.

Cant normals have eyes like this though?

Pastel 100% :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SansCera

Pastel 100% :gj:

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u never can say 100% before breeding...

(i know- my smartass gene came in again..lol)

Hi,

I think he's a pastel. :)


dr del

might be a pastel :P

Here's a close up of a pastel I used to have if that helps :rolleye2:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/PICT9664.jpg

Yea nice pic yes his eye is just like that thanks for all the help guys :) :snake:

I'm going with Pastel :) He's a cute little guy, but he's a very "muddy" example of the morph. I would personally get a brighter male if you plan to breed, but that all depends on what you're going for! He could do well in some projects depending on what you like :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...a/IMG_4496.jpg

This is him after he got some size on him.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...a/DSC01622.jpg

He's now in Ed's collection (Freakie_frog) and he can post some pictures of what he looks like now if he sees this thread.

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I would kill for one of your lemon pastels... well okay maybe not a person... possibly just the rodents to feed it :P God Lemons as so beautiful.

About the TC's snake:

Yes pastels have it, some higher than others. My pastel's nose fade is actually pretty low, yellows where her heat pits are and browns right above (what do you expect from a 60$ snake about 2 years ago). My normal's brown goes right down to his lips.

Your pastel has fading up to the heat pits, the characteristic fading of the head and neck, and the peach sides. However considering the fact it's already lightly browning, your pastel really isnt the high quality that many buyers look for. So if you intend to breed it, light morphs are your friends (I will be breeding mine to a Lesser), if you just want it to look at, then yes it is still quite an attractive snake, and the morph itself is pretty attractive in general. When it gets older and the dark parts space out you'll notice more fading there, which is enjoyable.

didnt read past you bought as a pastel and seeing half the pic. it looks like a normal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

I would kill for one of your lemon pastels... well okay maybe not a person... possibly just the rodents to feed it :P God Lemons as so beautiful.

About the TC's snake:

Yes pastels have it, some higher than others. My pastel's nose fade is actually pretty low, yellows where her heat pits are and browns right above (what do you expect from a 60$ snake about 2 years ago). My normal's brown goes right down to his lips.

Your pastel has fading up to the heat pits, the characteristic fading of the head and neck, and the peach sides. However considering the fact it's already lightly browning, your pastel really isnt the high quality that many buyers look for. So if you intend to breed it, light morphs are your friends (I will be breeding mine to a Lesser), if you just want it to look at, then yes it is still quite an attractive snake, and the morph itself is pretty attractive in general. When it gets older and the dark parts space out you'll notice more fading there, which is enjoyable.

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Would he make some "ok" bumblebees if i have a light spider as im getting a female spider, i can breed her to something else as well but what do you think?

It depends, genetics can be somewhat "random" in what gets passed on. But you should have a better chance of producing nicer pastels by breeding that snake to light animals, so a light spider could possibly make some decent bees and it's a better choice than a dark one since you need to lighten the pastel's colors.

I say go for it and see what you get :gj:

Personally since a pastel is a "brightener" snake, I wouldn't buy a dark one to breed.
A pet yes, breed no.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

It depends, genetics can be somewhat "random" in what gets passed on. But you should have a better chance of producing nicer pastels by breeding that snake to light animals, so a light spider could possibly make some decent bees and it's a better choice than a dark one since you need to lighten the pastel's colors.

I say go for it and see what you get :gj:

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Hehe cool, :) Well i am not looking to be the next "amazing breeder" or do it to produce the best offspring, I want to do it for a challenge, for the fun, Im buying a baby female spider, and would love to one day just produce my own baby snakes, regardless of quality, only downside is ofc they will be harder to sell but at reduced prices im sure i can get rid of any excess whilst still getting myself some new morphs in the process :)

Personally I find that the number one way to get rid of snakes is to be personable and knowledgeable. Talk to people, make a wide group of friends, gauge people's reactions to the idea of snakes, you'll bump into people who would love to own one, converse with them about husbandry, then tell them when you're going to be producing snakes.

I would rather give a snake to a home I know will be good than to sell the animals cheap just to be rid of them. That's the great part about this forum, everywhere you look you will find people who would love to have the snakes you do, and they would be willing to buy/pay shipping for them if only you met them.

Also if you really want to breed some lovely pastels I know that Robin works with Lemon Pastels, and makes great animals and on top of that you could easily buy another pastel. Snakes are like potato chips, when you get one you just have to have more, and when it finally comes to breeding time you can have choices.

Yea this is a good idea! would be happy to sell to mates for cheap as would be cool having them own snakes i produced so i see your point :)

As for having loads, well yes i do want loads but i can't have as many as i want as atm i rent my mums house, shes not keen on me having loads of animals, (she doesnt know i have infact 2 snakes and not 1!! and am soon to have 4!!)

After i leave there i will be privately renting ( A mortgage here is way out of my price range as its difficult here) so its also down to what i can get away with a landlord :-p