Is anyone working to try and produce a Pearl?

I realize that the few that have been produced didnt thrive and that most gave up on the project but I still hold out that by breeding the Woma to other snakes for a few generations could prove that the gene isnt lethal and that it's some other factor (perhaps another gene on the same chromosome that may be removed through crossing over in time).

So has anyone been working on geneticly diversifying the Woma to produce a viable Pearl, or is anyone working to just produce a Pearl?

It would be amazing if it could be done so we could have viable Pearls.

I believe that the Pearl is a homo Hidden Gene Woma not just the 'standard' Woma (which has no proven super form so far?) so that will massively reduce the number of people whom can even attempt it...

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

I realize that the few that have been produced didnt thrive and that most gave up on the project but I still hold out that by breeding the Woma to other snakes for a few generations could prove that the gene isnt lethal and that it's some other factor (perhaps another gene on the same chromosome that may be removed through crossing over in time).

So has anyone been working on geneticly diversifying the Woma to produce a viable Pearl, or is anyone working to just produce a Pearl?

It would be amazing if it could be done so we could have viable Pearls.

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Personally, I think the Pearl is like the Spider in the way that no matter how much outcrossing is done it is still lethal. I'm no expert on the Hidden Gene Woma but it sure sounds like it is the super form of the Hidden Gene that is lethal. Same with boas, the Super Motley is fatal also.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Personally, I think the Pearl is like the Spider in the way that no matter how much outcrossing is done it is still lethal. I'm no expert on the Hidden Gene Woma but it sure sounds like it is the super form of the Hidden Gene that is lethal. Same with boas, the Super Motley is fatal also.

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what do u mean with the super motley boa is fatal also? ive seen many super motley without problems and heart it just the first time.

i got a albino and a motley het. albino. ill try to produce the albino super motley in a few years.

what are the problems with super mots? is it in all super motleys forms (ca, columbien, argentine)?



and to the whole pearl thing. i thing it also- not many ppl outthere with hidden gene womas...

could someone post a story about the whole pearl thing- whats the reason etc?

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Originally Posted by joe23

what do u mean with the super motley boa is fatal also? ive seen many super motley without problems and heart it just the first time.

i got a albino and a motley het. albino. ill try to produce the albino super motley in a few years.

what are the problems with super mots? is it in all super motleys forms (ca, columbien, argentine)?



and to the whole pearl thing. i thing it also- not many ppl outthere with hidden gene womas...

could someone post a story about the whole pearl thing- whats the reason etc?

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I was told this by a buddy of mine who is working with the Motleys(he even has a couple supers). SUPPOSABLY, they just up and die after a few years. I've read that it is improving, but, time will tell.

man thats bad... i love the albino super motley...

Wait, when the heck did we determine it was the Hidden Gene Womas? I completely missed this and it's a major part of me asking with the topic, for news!

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Originally Posted by joe23

what do u mean with the super motley boa is fatal also? ive seen many super motley without problems and heart it just the first time.

i got a albino and a motley het. albino. ill try to produce the albino super motley in a few years.

what are the problems with super mots? is it in all super motleys forms (ca, columbien, argentine)?



and to the whole pearl thing. i thing it also- not many ppl outthere with hidden gene womas...

could someone post a story about the whole pearl thing- whats the reason etc?

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Do you mean that when you breed a spider x spider that the offspring won't survive? My English is not so good so maybe I understand you wrong?

regards.

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Originally Posted by saskia

Do you mean that when you breed a spider x spider that the offspring won't survive? My English is not so good so maybe I understand you wrong?

regards.

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I think he's referring to spiders always having the wobble, no matter how much you outcross them. There's just something in the gene that doesn't click.

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Originally Posted by BabysMomma

I think he's referring to spiders always having the wobble, no matter how much you outcross them. There's just something in the gene that doesn't click.

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The wobble has nothing to do with the question. He's referring to the fact that a Spider to Spider pairing will only produced het Spiders so to speak. There is no Super form. The homo version is lethal meaning that there are no homogeneous Spiders out there.


Gavin

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Originally Posted by Gavin Cooper

The wobble has nothing to do with the question. He's referring to the fact that a Spider to Spider pairing will only produced het Spiders so to speak. There is no Super form. The homo version is lethal meaning that there are no homogeneous Spiders out there.


Gavin

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thats what i meant. but hes probably easier to understand than me- have sometimes trouble to make clear what i mean in english.

hes right - the wobble has nothin to do with that. when u breed a pinstripe to a pinstripe u get 100% pinstripes that are homozygot. it means they have no superform (look like normal pins) but when bread to a normal ALL the babies are pinstripe. not so in spider- u get "het" spiders from a spider x spider breeding...


is it true that all pearls starve to death??? i heard that rumor a lot...

except that the spider x spider being homozygous lethal still hasn't been substantiated.

But i don't know of anyone thats working with the hidden gene womas to make pearls. I think its like the leucy carpets (super jags). Its just not compatible with life for long. But i'd love to see some research done on it.

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Originally Posted by joe23

when u breed a pinstripe to a pinstripe u get 100% pinstripes that are homozygot. it means they have no superform (look like normal pins) but when bread to a normal ALL the babies are pinstripe. ...

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Really I have never heard of this. Didn't know that a dominant gene could have a super form. Now co-dom yes but not dom. I may be wrong but this is the first time I have ever heard of this. I just figure that you would see people selling super pins and you don't. Just my :twocents: If anyone has any info on this I would love to see some sources. I am interested. As far as I know from marcus jaynes site pins have been proven dominant with no super form.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

Didn't know that a dominant gene could have a super form.

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The DEFINITION of a dominant trait is that it is always fully expressed in a heterozygote, being equally as fully expressed as a homozygote as well.

I was under the impression about a year ago that someone had produced a spider that had sired on spider offspring, meaning it would be a homozygous spider, however it's possible it was a pin.

As for the homozygous form of spider being lethal, has this ever been proven? I believe that one would need to test every spider to be sure that they are 100% heterozygous and there are no homozygous forms. Someone could easily have one and never breed it, or breed it and just think they got lucky.

Also it would be really interesting to know what protein synthesis each gene altered, that could easily explain whether or not any gene was fatal, as the lack of production/over production/altered form production of a protein could mean the animal has no immune system, cannot digest some mineral, etc.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

Really I have never heard of this. Didn't know that a dominant gene could have a super form. Now co-dom yes but not dom. I may be wrong but this is the first time I have ever heard of this. I just figure that you would see people selling super pins and you don't. Just my :twocents: If anyone has any info on this I would love to see some sources. I am interested. As far as I know from marcus jaynes site pins have been proven dominant with no super form.

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well it has no visual superform- thats right. but im 99,999% sure taht it is like i wrote before- breed a pin x pin gives u homozygous pinstripes- bread to a normal 100% of the babies are pins.

ive read it in books and in reptile magazins, so im pretty sure that its correct.

ive just checked serval genetic calculators- now im 100% sure about the hom. pinstripe!!!

it is like i said...

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Originally Posted by joe23

well it has no visual superform- thats right. but im 99,999% sure taht it is like i wrote before- breed a pin x pin gives u homozygous pinstripes- bread to a normal 100% of the babies are pins.

ive read it in books and in reptile magazins, so im pretty sure that its correct.

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This is true (I think -- I believe someone has produced a homozygous pinstripe) except that the problem is that only 1/3 of the pinstripe-appearing offspring will be homozygous, and you can't tell which ones until they grow up and breed!

So I can't really imagine wanting to do that breeding as 1/3 of your pinstripes are significantly more valuable than the other 2/3 ... But without knowing, you've just got to sell them all as "33% possible homozygous pinstripe," or what have you. (And if you were doing the breeding to hold one back, you've got a lot of work ahead of you proving the homozygous one out.)

As far as the OP's question -- my guess is that if anyone is/was working to breed the lethal factor out of the pearl, it was the originator of the morph themselves (ie, NERD). If the lethal factor is inherent in the "HG woma" gene itself, then it can't be bred out, as others have said -- just like the "wobble" or the (theoretical) homozygous lethal factor can't be bred out of the spiders, either.

If the lethal factor was just linked to the "HG woma" gene, then yes, after some outcrossing it could be bred out ... But if it is too tightly linked, that could be difficult to impossible, and if it was not all that closely linked, it probably would've been done by now. :(

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Originally Posted by joe23

ive just checked serval genetic calculators- now im 100% sure about the hom. pinstripe!!!

it is like i said...

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Only one person has ever claimed they thought their pinstripe was a homozygous animal(that I know of) that's one out of hundreds of thousands?
Spider to spider is 75% spiders and 25% normals
Pinstripe to pinstripe is the same....

From the wizard...
MALE: Pinstripe
FEMALE: Pinstripe

25%: Normal
25%: Pinstripe
25%: Pinstripe
25%: Pinstripe

The trouble is, pinstripe to pinstripe breedings are terrifically common, and when they do happen, it would take several years of breeding to really confirm that what you have is a homozygous pin, and not just great odds. I assumed no one was bothering--and if they DO bother, then they certainly aren't going to sell that animal. I wouldn't!

Spider X spider has been done a lot with spider combos, and people have kept an eye out, but no super-spiders are in evidence.