Lessers and Butters

I know genetically these are pretty much the same snake...but how do you actually distinguish one from the other visually?

Personally, I don't believe that you can.

I don't believe that they're different in the sense of being two discreet alleles (like mojave is clearly discreet and distinct from the "b'lessers"). However, I do think that the original lines of each morph had a distinct "look" to them that could (with selective breeding!) be retained in modern bloodlines -- if only to give meaning to the distinction between the two!

To my eye, a butter looks to have a more uniform brown/gold tone to its coloration (they look "smooth," like, well, butter :rolleyes:) while the lessers should have a bright, popping pattern with a "cool" colored background for a higher-contrast look.

Is that a subtle distinction? Yeah, probably. Do I think you could tell them apart without knowing for sure? Nope, not at all -- especially not if you have someone with "lessers" who has been breeding them for a more "butter" look or vise versa, or if you have babies from a butter x lesser breeding -- at that point I think you'd best just call them all "b'lessers."

I liken it to different lines of pastel ... To me, a lemon pastel should be super bright yellow, high-contrast, with a very busy pattern of stark black overlaying the yellow, while a Graziani should be a very clean yellow or straw blond with a reduced/banded pattern with lots of blushing. But they don't stay that way without selective breeding, so as everyone knows, nowadays you can't buy a pastel based on the bloodline you like; you have to go with the individual animal.

So there. (Dang I type a lot.) :P Here's my butter and my lesser. Can you tell which is which?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...randLesser.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...serpattern.jpg

Comparing with the lesser and butter i have, i would say on the first picture, the snake on top, with the more yellow is the butter?

Lol. I was going to say the opposite. The one with more yellow is the lesser (the one on top).

im 99% sure that the lighter one is the lesser.

butters look more brownish to the eye while lessers are mostly lighter to the eye...

I think butters are lighter then lessers. Almost every butter I have seen has been very light. While the lessers I see are sometimes light and sometimes dark.

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

So there. (Dang I type a lot.) :P Here's my butter and my lesser. Can you tell which is which?

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The one on top is an absolutely gorgeous lesser (the lighter one).

Here is a fun set to try and distinguish:

http://www.constrictors.com/Availabl...Butter10F5.jpg
http://www.constrictors.com/Availabl...Lesser10M1.jpg

I'd hate to run into a clutch containing both.

Most folks did get it right -- the one on top (in the first picture; body is on the bottom in the 2nd) is my male lesser; the other is the female butter. (Who, sadly, is actually a year older than him but a MUCH less voracious feeder :( She's making her bumblebee future boyfriend very disappointed.)

Oxylepy, I'd guess that the first guy in your post is the butter, 2nd is the lesser ...

I wonder if the two lines will be kept relatively separate, or in a few years we'll start calling them all the same thing.

very interesting, our lesser/butter are completely the other way round:

Lesser:

http://www.koenigspython-forum.de/wb...achmentID=1023

Butter:

http://www.koenigspython-forum.de/wb...achmentID=1016

Booo. That one is hard. I'm going to go with Nirvana (:)) and say the bottom is the lesser, and the top is the butter.

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Originally Posted by JNballs

very interesting, our lesser/butter are completely the other way round:

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Wow. I guess that goes to show you how much they fluctuate into each others qualities. Very nice butter by-the-way.

There was also a thread which was a lesser bred to a butter. They guy could tell which were lesser's and which were butters. He said he would probably sell them as lessers, and whoever buys them determines what they are. Hence, the interchangeable name :)

Here are my two lessers - different as different can be.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...serFemale4.jpg

Personally I think they should be called Het BEL and Butter/Lesser/Cross lines. Butter/Lesser lines being direct lines and Cross any time Butter and Lesser were bred together. That way you could, hopefully, distinguish between true lines and possible descent.

I really do think they're the same gene and differences in coloration come from other genetic factors, just like how a normal can range. Too bad none of us have gene testing equipment, it would be interesting to get all the morphs mapped genetically.

Butter:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0/butterf5.jpg

Lesser:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0/lesserm5.jpg

:confused: :D

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Here are my two lessers - different as different can be.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...serFemale4.jpg

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Look at that funky red coloring on the bottom one? Is it 100% lesser? I don't think i've seen one that light. Gorgeous!

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

Look at that funky red coloring on the bottom one? Is it 100% lesser? I don't think i've seen one that light. Gorgeous!

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100% Lesser!

Thanks for all the responses. I had been pricing Lessers for a while, until I found the perfect one...:cool:...but haven't priced Butters much. I'm sure the price varies depending on the individual, but is there much of an average price difference between "Lessers" and "Butters"?

Oh, yes, and BTW, the top was the butter and the bottom was the lesser. That said...

Constrictors Unlimited has Butters going for 350.500 and Lessers are going for the same cost. Since I base many of my prices there and on Kingsnake I would say, no there isnt much difference in cost aside from the usual expected range of breeder/quality/size which factor into most snake costs.

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Originally Posted by BaierBalls

Thanks for all the responses. I had been pricing Lessers for a while, until I found the perfect one...:cool:...but haven't priced Butters much. I'm sure the price varies depending on the individual, but is there much of an average price difference between "Lessers" and "Butters"?

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It seemed to me that last year, butters were going for a bit more than lessers (as per individual seller, though the average was pretty similar). This year I suspect it will probably be based more on the quality of the individual, if only because it seems more and more people view them as different strains of the same thing.