? for those of you that have mouse eating BP's

I bought a female pastel BP from a reputable breeder exactly two weeks ago. She is just over 900g and over 2 years old. The breeder said she was a good eater but he could not get her to eat F/T rats, just F/T mice. She ate two 25g mice for me today and I am just happy she ate after having her for a short period of time. I am going to attempt to get her to eat F/T rats and scenting them with the F/T mice. BUT, if she does not, will she still gain good weight if she continues to eat 2 F/T adult mice each week? I am trying to get her to 1500 grams so she can breed this winter. I would think the mice should get her to a healthy weight in 5+ months. Do any of you have adult BP's that only eat mice? Thanks for any information and/or advice.

I've got several snakes that will only eat mice and they breed just fine. 60 grams worth of mice is no different then 60 grams worth of rats. I know a few breeders that ONLY feed mice. I start all of my hatchlings on mice, I find it easier to get them feeding on a schedule, and once they're on a regular schedule it's easier to get them on frozen/thawed.

You can of course keep her on mice, but please be aware as she gets bigger, she'll eat 5 or 6 mice in a sitting, maybe more.

At 900 grams, 10% of her weight is 90 grams, so she'd need 3-4 25 gram mice just to maintain her weight.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I know people here who have mice eaters, but you better be prepared for the work it involves.

Gale

I plan on trying to get her to switch to small rats. For now, I just want her to keep eating and putting weight on. When I wiggle the mouse in front of her, she is very interested and flicks her tongue right on it. After about 30-60 seconds, she strikes and constricts it.

As far as work goes, she was the first one to get fed last night. By the time I finished with the others, I came back to her and she was done, so I fed her again. She is still sitting in the same place and when I walked into the room tonight, she came out and looks very interested and hungry. Next week I will try 3.

Adult mice are about 25 grams and jumbo mice are about 35 grams from my supplier, so I maybe able to get her to three jumbo mice in a couple months, then hopefully rats. As far as the 10% rule, I understand that is about the standard for younger snakes, but do 3000 gram snakes really eat 200-300 grams of rats?

My first ball python would not take f/t rats for me either. He started on the mice, but I really wanted him switched over so I wouldn't have to keep buying and then feeding so many mice in one sitting! It took a lot of work and was very frustrating, but I finally got him to accept!

What I did was just refuse to feed for a lil while. I made sure he was nice and hungry and then I dethawed a nice big rat for him. At first he still wanted nothing to do with it :/, but upon reading things on here I think I got him to eat because one special thing.

Obviously mice are smaller and keep the heat retained in them better right after being dethawed. When I offered the rat I think it was still way too cold for his liking and thus he didn't read it as being something to eat. I now use a heater(or could use a hair dryer held close) after they are thawed to dry them and keep them warm. I especially focus on the head area so when I dangle the rat it's right there all nice and toasty. He takes them no problem now and comes rushing from his hide when he smells me approaching with food. Maybe you should try getting them RLY warm (without overdoing it) and see if anything changes? That's all I know how to do and would be worth a shot if u haven't tried already!

I have over 100 BP's and I feed a combination depending on who's eating what. For my adults that are eating mice, I feed them 2-to-3 jumbo mice on feeding day (retired breeders).

For anyone in Southern California, my mouse guy is superb; if you have a large collection he will deliver live mice at .55 each, no matter the size of the mouse, pinky to jumbo retired breeder.

BrandonsBalls

I have a 1 kg late 2008 boy that got to size eating nothing but one large mouse a week, every week. So I know they can get big on a mouse-only diet... but if she doesn't do the 5-6-mice-a-week thing in summer and fall, she won't be quick about it.

I'm interested in whether or not the scenting works for you. My 2008 girls are mouse eaters: one is 840g and the other is 900g. I'm desperate to get them to switch to rats, or at least to eat more mice in a sitting, but they're taking their sweet time about it. Right now I'm trying to "fool" them into eating rats by leading with small mouse to getting them biting, then following up with a rat pup. So far no dice... but hopefully their appetites will pick up in another few weeks?

My very first ball python (and snake) has never eaten rats, and I do both live & f/t feedings for my collection. She's around 1.5-2 years old now, and probably weighs a little over 800g... my het albino girl of the same age eats small rats, and weighs around 1100g. So it's not a huge difference, but a difference nonetheless. The problem is that she won't take more than 2-3 mice (if that) per feeding, so I'm afraid her growth rate is slowing down considerably. :cool:

Bottom line, these mousers will eventually reach breeding size, but might need an extra season to get there! Just keep feeding her what she'll take, and maybe consider live if you're having doubts about her growth... speaking of which, have you tried a live rat before? And what about ASFs?

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Originally Posted by BrandonsBalls

For anyone in Southern California, my mouse guy is superb; if you have a large collection he will deliver live mice at .55 each, no matter the size of the mouse, pinky to jumbo retired breeder.

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Dammm, that makes me jealous... wonder if he'd deliver to San Francisco? It's not that far, LOL! :rofl:

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Originally Posted by rj1204

As far as the 10% rule, I understand that is about the standard for younger snakes, but do 3000 gram snakes really eat 200-300 grams of rats?

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Some can and will, but some won't take rats that big. I think they may be intimidated by the size or something. I used to have a large male that was 2500 grams, and 54" long, but the biggest rat I ever got him to eat was only about 120 grams. Anything bigger, he might strike and constrict, but not eat it. One thing to remember is, if you do have a snake that will take larger rats like that, then they are going to need more time to digest it so they would need to be on a 10-14 day feeding schedule...

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Originally Posted by rj1204

I bought a female pastel BP from a reputable breeder exactly two weeks ago. She is just over 900g and over 2 years old. The breeder said she was a good eater but he could not get her to eat F/T rats, just F/T mice. She ate two 25g mice for me today and I am just happy she ate after having her for a short period of time. I am going to attempt to get her to eat F/T rats and scenting them with the F/T mice. BUT, if she does not, will she still gain good weight if she continues to eat 2 F/T adult mice each week? I am trying to get her to 1500 grams so she can breed this winter. I would think the mice should get her to a healthy weight in 5+ months. Do any of you have adult BP's that only eat mice? Thanks for any information and/or advice.

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My ball python ate a rat once and then regurged. he is partial to mice I believe. I have had him for a couple three years now. He was a rescue. I went and got him out of this house where they had heat rocks, and he was being burnt from them. Also, he was infested with mites. I believe he was tramatized. I just now , this past week have been giving him very small rats and he seems to be doing fine with them. he wasn`t gaining the weight I wanted him to, so I tried the rat again. no problem so far, but he is older now. I would, from my experience stick to hoppers maybe if you want to put him on rats, and then try to go up from there. I always feed live prey, so it might be different , but this is mt 2 cents anyways. Happy herping!!;)

The breeder I got her from advised me that she has been growing and eating perfectly and her one flaw is he could not get her to take rats. She has only been with me for 2 weeks so I am going to continue to feed her mice and get better acclimated for a bit. Since all my other BP's eat F/T rats, I am going to ATTEMPT to scent the small rats with the mouse and see if she will take a rat first. If and when she doesn't, I think I will just do 2, possibly 3 adult mice. Of course, if she does not put good weight on by November, I will not breed her. However, she sits on her heat during the day and when I come into the room, she has been very active, which she did not show any sign of being like this until after she ate 4 nights ago.....so I think eating 50-75g of mice will help her put on weight.

I have a 700g male that I am probably going to put on hoppers. So hopefully I can get her to take a hopper. F/T is just easier for me since I only have 8 BP's.

My male eats nothing but mice, I've had him 4 years and he gets 2-3 mice a week now, he's around 1800 grams and puts on weight fine. Why not let her gain weight normally, I really don't grasp all this mass feeding to get a female to breeding weight rather than letting them grow at their own pace. Fat weight isn't healthy weight, this is snake that will live 20+ years, what's the rush?

I never said anything about mass feeding to get my girl to breeding weight. I just want her to eat what she should.........thus she would be at breeding weight by November. I want her to get the proper amount or weight of rodents so she is healthy. My other girls that are the same size eat 70-80 grams of rats each week compared to her eating 50 grams of mice each week. That is what the post is about. No mass feeding, no fat weight, just a good, healthy female snake at the proper breeding weight. I also stated if she wasn't at a good weight, I wouldn't breed her. My concern was if I fed her 2 mice per week, she was not getting the proper amount of food.....which has been more then answered by those with mice-eating BP's.

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Originally Posted by rj1204

The breeder I got her from advised me that she has been growing and eating perfectly and her one flaw is he could not get her to take rats. She has only been with me for 2 weeks so I am going to continue to feed her mice and get better acclimated for a bit. Since all my other BP's eat F/T rats, I am going to ATTEMPT to scent the small rats with the mouse and see if she will take a rat first. If and when she doesn't, I think I will just do 2, possibly 3 adult mice. Of course, if she does not put good weight on by November, I will not breed her. However, she sits on her heat during the day and when I come into the room, she has been very active, which she did not show any sign of being like this until after she ate 4 nights ago.....so I think eating 50-75g of mice will help her put on weight.

I have a 700g male that I am probably going to put on hoppers. So hopefully I can get her to take a hopper. F/T is just easier for me since I only have 8 BP's.

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I think that is a good idea. Balls are sometimes finiky so if he is eating mice, then that is what you should feed him. I don`t think there is any need to rush onto rats. I have 5 constrictors. different kinds. they are in the gallery if you are interested. 3 pythons and 2 boas.

I've never had any trouble getting any of my balls to take rats, but I do have an adult jungle carpet python that absolutely refuses to have anything to do with a rat. It doesn't matter if it's live, freshly killed, or thawed. He tracks it the same way he does with mice but as soon as he can smell it up close, he backs off and waits for me to get rid of it. He's the most frustrating snake we have. I bought him as a yearling and have had him for over ten years now. Feeding him half a dozen mice or so at a feeding is time consuming and so aggravating. I've tricked him to eat a weanling/small rat only twice in the years that we've had him. Thankfully, I have several breeder friends and connections with one of the vendors for local pet shops so I can get feeder mice for little to nothing but I'd much rather that this guy would eat medium/large rats like the other JCPs..

If you have an oppurtunity to transition your little ones to rats early on, by all means do so. It's been my experience that the older the snake is, the more stubborn they can be. ;)

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Originally Posted by rj1204

The breeder I got her from advised me that she has been growing and eating perfectly and her one flaw is he could not get her to take rats. She has only been with me for 2 weeks so I am going to continue to feed her mice and get better acclimated for a bit. Since all my other BP's eat F/T rats, I am going to ATTEMPT to scent the small rats with the mouse and see if she will take a rat first. If and when she doesn't, I think I will just do 2, possibly 3 adult mice. Of course, if she does not put good weight on by November, I will not breed her. However, she sits on her heat during the day and when I come into the room, she has been very active, which she did not show any sign of being like this until after she ate 4 nights ago.....so I think eating 50-75g of mice will help her put on weight.

I have a 700g male that I am probably going to put on hoppers. So hopefully I can get her to take a hopper. F/T is just easier for me since I only have 8 BP's.

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I always used my gut instinct. It has never failed me. I say, don`t rush her into anything. I think you have the right idea. as I said, go with your gut. You won`t be sorry.:)

I have one annoying mouser albino who is a finicky eater...sometimes she will take up to 3 mice in a feeding. Often, she skips a week or two, or accepts only 1 mouse. I'm trying to get her interested in ASFs. She is an '07 and is only 1100 grams. I wanted this to be her first breeding year, but I'm not at all sure she is going to make it.

I had a mouser pastel, but she suddenly started taking rats for me after she came out of her '900 gram winter fast'. That may be the best time to try to get any ball python to accept new food. Females coming back on feed after the winter season can become ravenous enough to eat almost anything.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

You can of course keep her on mice, but please be aware as she gets bigger, she'll eat 5 or 6 mice in a sitting, maybe more.

At 900 grams, 10% of her weight is 90 grams, so she'd need 3-4 25 gram mice just to maintain her weight.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I know people here who have mice eaters, but you better be prepared for the work it involves.

Gale

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Where is this idea coming from? 10%?? I've got several females between 2000-3000 grams and they still never get anything bigger then a medium rat, and most are still on smalls. Although I'll occasionally throw them something bigger, my personal rule of thumb is to not feed anything larger then 100 grams to a ball python.

Yeah, I'm not sure about the 10% rule (at least not for adults). I am considering purchasing a 3000g female and I do not see me feeding her more than one 90-100g rat every week.

As far as switching her to rats, I may just give it a try later or like WingedWolf said, maybe after the season. She would not take the mice I offered her last week so I just left two of them on the cool side of her tub. I came back 3-4 hours later around 2am and they were gone.....eaten. I may just leave a F/T weaned rat in her tub and see if she takes it next time. It seems that she is just a shy eater and likes mice for whatever reason.

Our male ball python only eats live albino mice. He used to eat rats but we think he got attacked by one once and now strictly refuses them. He also used to eat any color mouse. But now refuses anything other than white with red eyes mice. Ball pythons are just finicky eaters. She should be fine on just mice.

My 1400g het pied is a mouser (6-8/week!). I did have luck last week giving her 2 mice to stimulate her and then rubbing a rat down with the mouse and she took it.

Wow, 6-8 a week!? That's like 200 grams of mice a week! The breeder I bought my girl from fed her one adult mouse a week. I have given her two per week for the last couple and she is starting to put some descent weight on. I think I am going to put two mice in her tub, leave them for a couple hours so she eats them, rub a mouse on a weened rat and leave it in her tub after she eats the mice next week. Hopefully she does the same as your het pied. As long as she eats 50-75g of rodents (2-3 mice or 1 small rat) on a weekly basis, I really don't care. At that rate she will be healthy.

I havnt had my snake very long but the owner before me said the snake wouldnt eat anything but live mice. She tried F/T mice and rats but wouldnt take them. So i got him and fed him a large mouse every 3-4 days for 2 weeks and then decided what the hell, im gonna try a F/T small rat. Heated it up in hot water on the stove, dried with a paper towl, and the snake took it as soon as i dangled it in front of him. No hesitation, he put it down and has been a happy hiding snake since yesterday. Maybe mines not as picky of an eater as the previous owner made him out to be, or maybe some people just dont know what there doing. Has me wondering a little but i had zero issue changing my snake over to F/T rats after hes been eating strickly live mice for over 3 years.

The younger ball is not quite at the point where he will be eating rats, but the older refuses every time. Those two and my corn were strictly eating live and about a month ago I tried out f/t, the corn was the only one to eat it. Now they all accept f/t no problems, just not rats!

Not sure where I am going wrong here

I am not super experienced, but I have read just about everything I could on switching from live to F/T and mice to rats. I defrost my rats in warm water. Once the rats are defrosted, I let them sit in hot water for 10 minutes and get them nice and warm. I then pull the rat out and blow dry on low for a minute. After all of this, all my snakes are out and they know it is feeding time. I have tried this with a small and weened rat and she doesn't have any interest. Even with the mice on the first try, after he not eating for almost 3 weeks, she went up to the mouse, smelled it for 1-2 minutes, then backed off. It seems she is just really timid and when I leave the mice in the tub and go away, she eats it within an hour or two.

I have a bumble bee and a pastel female (fed live all their lives) that I acquired a month ago and neither one of them are interested in anyting I offer. I am determined to switch them but they are rat eaters. They are both a healthy weight and not losing weight so I am not giving in as far as feeding live rats......yet.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

You can of course keep her on mice, but please be aware as she gets bigger, she'll eat 5 or 6 mice in a sitting, maybe more.

At 900 grams, 10% of her weight is 90 grams, so she'd need 3-4 25 gram mice just to maintain her weight.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I know people here who have mice eaters, but you better be prepared for the work it involves.

Gale

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Hmmm, I grew up most of my girls on 2 mice a week - and they didn't require 10% of their body weight to maintain their weight. They grew just fine on 2 adult mice a week - all the way up to breeding weight. Some even gained 100 grams a month on that feeding schedule.

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Originally Posted by rj1204

Yeah, I'm not sure about the 10% rule (at least not for adults). I am considering purchasing a 3000g female and I do not see me feeding her more than one 90-100g rat every week.

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If I remember correctly, that rule only applies up to about 1000g (of snake) - at that point you can settle on the current prey, be it a small-medium rat or multiple mice. I have a girl who weighs around 2500-2700g, and I'm not feeding 250g of prey every week! :O She takes 3-4 mice or a sm/med rat, and I think it's plenty for her.

I just bought an 06 proven breeder normal from a local breeder this weekend. She is 3500 grams and eats well. The breeder said he has been feeding her one small (60-70 gram) rat per week and that is what she has become/maintained in 4+ years......3500 grams. So, after all the posts (thanks everyone) and talking to other breeders, I know 2-3 mice should be fine......I am still going to try to switch her to one small rat eventually though!

talk to your mouse supplier......I did with mine and he holds back old breeders for me that have gotten too big and are not breeding anymore. I typically get 50 to 70 gram mice each week from him and it works out great for us.

I have a female over 4000 grams that eats only mice. I breed mice and soft furs so it doesn't matter to me. she just gave me 12 eggs so she lost around 1/3 of her body weight. I feed her 3 to 5 mice a week. come breeding time, she will have the weight back on and then some.


TIP,

if you want your female on rats and nothing else you tried worked. feed her mice, breed her, when she lays her eggs and you wash her and her tub, give her a few days, most females will eat just about anything after laying eggs to put weight back on. when I do this, my females that eat soft furs only, my females that will only eat mice, will eat what ever I throw in the tub.

I didn't read this whole thread to be honest, haha, but I'll share a little tip for your experimental pleasure that is hopefully not rehash. Rather than scent the rats with f/t mice directly, go to your local petstore, and ask them if you can have a little box or bag of used shavings that they keep their mice on. Dirty substrate will reek of mice. After you thaw your rat out, give it a quick dry, and bury it in the shavings for a few minutes. This should work far better than scenting with f/t mice, and the shavings are reusable as many times as you need them. If you feel like the mouse-smell is fading, just ask your petstore for more, haha. It's free, and they'll be glad to give you a bag full of nasty mouse shavings! Good luck!

Cheers,
-Matt