feeding in seperate enclosure?

I have a question for all those of you who feed in a seperate enclosure... how long do you wait to move your snake back into it's normal enclosure? Aren't you not supposed to handle them for about 48hrs so is moving them immediatly potentially stressful? I'm new to this and I'm considering feeding mine in a seperate enclosure to avoid me worrying about the loose substrate getting stuck to the mouse and potentail messes.

Of course if he gives me any problems feeding if I move him then I will just switch back to feeding in his normal enclosure.

Any advice would be great! Thanks!

I don't seem to have a problem lifting our older ball python or cornsnake from feeding container to tank. The ball is really docile and doesn't care, but the corn get's pretty nervous after feedings. I just gently lift them up by the "lump" and support all their weight and put them back in their tank, no worse for wear. I think you shouldn't hold them for extended periods of time after feeding, but the 10 seconds it takes to put them back isn't that big of a deal in my opinion.

Advice? Hmm... How about "Don't post questions about this topic." :)

Heh - just joking around. There have been some long and heated threads on this issue for sure. Or maybe I'm thinking of live vs. frozen.

I started feeding in a separate enclosure with my first baby ball several years ago. I don't bother with it any more though. My experience has been that you can get away with it for juveniles that are ravenous all the time but adults will tend to skip meals due to stress of being put in unusual surroundings. Or, for stronger feeders, you have to deal with hauling a snake out of it's enclosure when it is most primed to feed. That sort of negates the whole safety aspect of the theory.

Snakes surely form associations with external stimuli such as food. This is a basic function of every animal and person on this planet - it is a function of the so-called "reptilian brain" in fact. The debatable part is whether or not the immediate environment (i.e. the enclosure) is the dominating trigger. I think it is a strong one but timing, hunger level, scent, and physical contact all taken together outweigh it. So, I just stick with basic "hook training". You open the enclosure and are ready for possible anticipation of food. You use a hook (or stick or whatever) to safely make first contact with the snake. At this point you can usually see a distinct change in their posture and disposition that means your signal that there is no feeding going on has worked. Then you can safely handle them.

Now, to actually answer your question. Whenever I do feed out-of-enclosure, I put the snake in the feeding area and let it acclimate for an hour or so. For older snakes that are more finicky, I have some success with things like a little bedding and heating to make it more homey and help get the snake in the mood. Assuming all goes well, I'll leave the snake in at least long enough to let it get out of feeding mode (say an hour) but if the feeding enclosure isn't too spartan, I'll leave it in overnight. In any case, I try to be very gentle and brief when transferring a snake that has recently eaten.

hello,

we have tried to feed in seperate enclosures for a short time, but since we have all the balls in tha rack, we just feed there! we use a substrate which makes no problems when swallowed, and the snakes never ate better then now.
feeding in seperate enclosures always was kind of luck, some week they ate, the other not,...

Snakes can be handled right after feeding, I've had snakes poo within 10 minutes after eating, then cleaned out their tub with the snake around my neck.

i've posted some thread exactly like this like 2 weeks back.

experts would say that you can feed your snake in their own enclosures, no need for a different one. and it seems to work fine as i tried.

but for me, the different encolsure still works better.. sure there is a stress on moving the snake from enclosue to his home, but just be sure to support all his weight and weight is distributed equally on at least 75% of his body to prevent muscle contraction.

this worked for me great, my snake knows when its feeding time and gosh he just grabs the feed in less than 10 secs! :D

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Snakes can be handled right after feeding, I've had snakes poo within 10 minutes after eating, then cleaned out their tub with the snake around my neck.

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Well yes they CAN be handled, but it should be avoided. Picking them up for a few seconds to move them or clean the enclosure won't matter. Handling them for long periods of time might provoke a regurgitation.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Well yes they CAN be handled, but it should be avoided. Picking them up for a few seconds to move them or clean the enclosure won't matter. Handling them for long periods of time might provoke a regurgitation.

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Yes, very good point, thanks. I was just trying to dispel the phobia of not picking them up at all after feeding, trying to handle them for an hour could be a disastrous idea, but it wont kill the snake if you pick them up for a couple minutes after feeding. Though if you smell like rodent that may be a bad idea :rolleye2:

Has anyone had their snake regurge after being moved back into the enclosure after eating?

I know this isn't related... but...

I feed my snake in his enclosure. He is eating just fine, he has never tried to bite, hiss, or strike at me. He knows when I have food or not, and he is eating fine. I also pet him before I pick him up, so that could also be it, too.

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Has anyone had their snake regurge after being moved back into the enclosure after eating?

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I haven't, the guy we adopted the ball python from specifically said he should be fed in a separate container, so we just keep doing that, since that's what he's used too.

I don't think it's a big deal whether you feed in a separate container or in their home terf, I think it just depends on how each individual snake reacts to the different ways.

Oh, I forgot to add. My ball python will only eat in his hide, so if I put him in a different feeding enclosure, I'm sure he wouldn't eat for me.

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

I haven't, the guy we adopted the ball python from specifically said he should be fed in a separate container, so we just keep doing that, since that's what he's used too.

I don't think it's a big deal whether you feed in a separate container or in their home terf, I think it just depends on how each individual snake reacts to the different ways.

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I don't do it, but not because I'm worried about regurges. There was a time I did do it, but it's a been along while.

I've have never had it happen, and have never heard first hand of it happening.

Not saying it doesn't or it can't - just that I've heard more regurgitated warnings than actual regurgitation.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Has anyone had their snake regurge after being moved back into the enclosure after eating?

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Not sure if it's related or not, but I fed my bp (He's a baby I just got a couple of months ago. He's only 52 grams or so, I think a few months old. he looks good and is a good eater, and growing fast) yesterday night after I got home from work, and tonight just a few minutes ago, I found the mouse regurgitated in his enclosure. I fed in a separate enclosure, he ate well and I gave him plenty of time to swallow, then I picked him up and put him in his cage. He hurried into his cold side hide and stayed there...

This post is a result of the first response I had, which was to do a search here... So not only am i posting this experience for the thread, I'm looking for help as far as what to do... Not sure if there's anything I can do for him/ how long to wait until attempting to feed again.

A bit more info: the hopper he ate was pretty large, but he seemed to have no problem swallowing it. His neck skin definitely was stretched out a bit from that big swallow though!

Thanks in advance for any tips :)

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Originally Posted by Pip

Not sure if it's related or not, but I fed my bp (He's a baby I just got a couple of months ago. He's only 52 grams or so, I think a few months old. he looks good and is a good eater, and growing fast) yesterday night after I got home from work, and tonight just a few minutes ago, I found the mouse regurgitated in his enclosure. I fed in a separate enclosure, he ate well and I gave him plenty of time to swallow, then I picked him up and put him in his cage. He hurried into his cold side hide and stayed there...

This post is a result of the first response I had, which was to do a search here... So not only am i posting this experience for the thread, I'm looking for help as far as what to do... Not sure if there's anything I can do for him/ how long to wait until attempting to feed again.

A bit more info: the hopper he ate was pretty large, but he seemed to have no problem swallowing it. His neck skin definitely was stretched out a bit from that big swallow though!

Thanks in advance for any tips :)

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Are you positive it was a regurg and not just a hairy poop?

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Are you positive it was a regurg and not just a hairy poop?

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Yes, it was an entirely undigested mouse, and it was found in the cage less than 24 hours after he ate. Can bps digest that fast???

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Originally Posted by Pip

Yes, it was an entirely undigested mouse, and it was found in the cage less than 24 hours after he ate. Can bps digest that fast???

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Well you can usually tell a regurg by the smell. It is the worst smell ever. Poo may smell bad but a regurg smells WAY worse.

After 24 hours I wouldn't really expect a regurg. It should be mostly digested after 24 hours and fully digested (and moving through the tubes) after 48 hours.

If it smelled like death then it was probably a regurg. If so, don't feed your snake for 14 days and then offer food again. You need to give them a little bit of a recovery time as regurgitating is never good on their system.

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Originally Posted by Pip

Not sure if it's related or not, but I fed my bp (He's a baby I just got a couple of months ago. He's only 52 grams or so, I think a few months old. he looks good and is a good eater, and growing fast) yesterday night after I got home from work, and tonight just a few minutes ago, I found the mouse regurgitated in his enclosure. I fed in a separate enclosure, he ate well and I gave him plenty of time to swallow, then I picked him up and put him in his cage. He hurried into his cold side hide and stayed there...

This post is a result of the first response I had, which was to do a search here... So not only am i posting this experience for the thread, I'm looking for help as far as what to do... Not sure if there's anything I can do for him/ how long to wait until attempting to feed again.

A bit more info: the hopper he ate was pretty large, but he seemed to have no problem swallowing it. His neck skin definitely was stretched out a bit from that big swallow though!

Thanks in advance for any tips :)

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A couple of questions (if you don't mind):

(1) How many times have you fed him outside his enclosure?
(2) Prior to this feeding, when was the last time he ate?
(3) What is the temperature at the cool end of his enclosure?

I think we are forgetting the most important thing. We should do what is best for our snakes, not what is best for us. IMO if you snake has potty'd 10 min after you fed, either the meal was not big enough, or it was some left over from the last feeding. Just because your snake has used the bathroom, does not mean they have digested his meal.

We should do things at their convenience not ours.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I think we are forgetting the most important thing. We should do what is best for our snakes, not what is best for us. IMO if you snake has potty'd 10 min after you fed, either the meal was not big enough, or it was some left over from the last feeding. Just because your snake has used the bathroom, does not mean they have digested his meal.

We should do things at their convenience not ours.

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Whats wrong with pooping a previous meal out shortly after being fed? The meal being pooped isn't necessarily last weeks meal. They hold that poo in forever!

Yeah, that's what i was saying, or meant to say. Was trying to make the point of they poop 10 min after eating, it probably wasn't the meal they just ate. And if it was, it wasn't a big enough meal.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

Yeah, that's what i was saying, or meant to say. Was trying to make the point of they poop 10 min after eating, it probably wasn't the meal they just ate. And if it was, it wasn't a big enough meal.

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Maybe I am confused. What would make the meal inadequate?

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Snakes can be handled right after feeding, I've had snakes poo within 10 minutes after eating, then cleaned out their tub with the snake around my neck.

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If it is only taking your snake 10 min to digest his meal, I don't think it was big enough.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

If it is only taking your snake 10 min to digest his meal, I don't think it was big enough.

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aaah I see. I think he was just saying that some of his snakes poo previous meals after eating and he picks them up anyway to clean it up.

Obviously it isn't digested in 10 minutes. That is impossible no matter how small the prey item.

Lol. Yeah, I got it after I re-read it. I was trying to figure out how his snake digested in 10 min. Light Bulb!

That's a tough one though. Let the snake digest, or clean him. It would probably be better to clean. Ugh. It would get nasty sitting in there for 2 days. I had a hatchling flip her hide over once, I just let her be. I didn't want to get bit, and she was still in feed mode.

I wouldn't worry about substrate though. As long as they can get it down, they shouldn't have any trouble digesting it. They can digest bones. That's why it's better to use paper/paper towles.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

A couple of questions (if you don't mind):

(1) How many times have you fed him outside his enclosure?
(2) Prior to this feeding, when was the last time he ate?
(3) What is the temperature at the cool end of his enclosure?

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Absolutely! Thanks for asking :)

1.) I have fed him outside his enclosure twice, and once inside. I believe the reptile shop I got him feeds in a separate enclosure.

2.) The last time he ate prior to this was last Monday, 5 days before his feeding this Saturday (The regurgitated meal)

3.) Cool side is low 80s, hot side is low 90s.


I got to thinking, and after reading more threads, I think it may also be due to the mouse being bigger than he's used to. I haven't weighed any of his previous meals, but this mouse was about 12 grams, and visibly larger than his last couple of meals.

He seems alright now (I always feel better after throwing up... Do snakes feel better too? :P)
He's in his hot side hide right now, but has been poking his head out and smelling around too.

I'm guessing it would be best to wait a few days before handling him?

So, because I know I've partially derailed this thread, I will relate my issue back to the topic. I'm not entirely sure if my little guy's regurg was related to handling right after feeding, or to a larger than normal meal... Or maybe it was a combination of both?

Thanks all for your responses and considerations! The help is immensely appreciated!

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

If it is only taking your snake 10 min to digest his meal, I don't think it was big enough.

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But I thought I was supposed to feed them in the pointy end :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Pip

Absolutely! Thanks for asking :)

1.) I have fed him outside his enclosure twice, and once inside. I believe the reptile shop I got him feeds in a separate enclosure.

2.) The last time he ate prior to this was last Monday, 5 days before his feeding this Saturday (The regurgitated meal)

3.) Cool side is low 80s, hot side is low 90s.


I got to thinking, and after reading more threads, I think it may also be due to the mouse being bigger than he's used to. I haven't weighed any of his previous meals, but this mouse was about 12 grams, and visibly larger than his last couple of meals.

He seems alright now (I always feel better after throwing up... Do snakes feel better too? :P)
He's in his hot side hide right now, but has been poking his head out and smelling around too.

I'm guessing it would be best to wait a few days before handling him?

So, because I know I've partially derailed this thread, I will relate my issue back to the topic. I'm not entirely sure if my little guy's regurg was related to handling right after feeding, or to a larger than normal meal... Or maybe it was a combination of both?

Thanks all for your responses and considerations! The help is immensely appreciated!

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I'm with you on the probable cause. Like I said, I used to feed some animals in separate encloures and never had an issue with regurges.

While I don't consider snakes intelligent, they do condition fairly easily, and an animal conditioned to being fed in a separate bin would not likely suddenly begin regurging meals.

On the other hand, almost every regurge I've had in healthy snakes was due to prey size.

Keep in mind there is a difference between regurgitation and vomiting in snakes.

If the mouse came up ten minutes after he was fed, then it is indeed a regurgitation.

On the other hand if the mouse was wholly ingested or you can visibly see that it was partially digested - that's vomit.

A regurge is an entirely different event that happens in a relatively short period of time after feeding.

When people talk about the trauma of regurgitation on a snakes system they are mistaken. A regurge imparts relatively little trauma on the digestive tract and flora in a snake.

Vomiting on the other hand is an entirely different event. The protocols for reintroduction of food items differ from regurgitation.

If your snake vomits, waiting two weeks for a reintroduction of food is recommended. I would also dip the head of the prey in Benebac or something similar at the first feeding after a vomiting episode.

If your snake does a true regurge, in which no digestion takes place - there is nothing wrong with waiting a week or so and reintroducing a smaller, more manageable prey item.

Unfortunately, the term regurgitation is used when most people are describing a vomiting incident, so you are going to get a flood of recommendations to wait two weeks even through no digestion took place. If it helps with your peace of mind - wait the two weeks and feed again.

I did have a quick thought on regurgitation vs vomiting today. I'm glad you addressed it.

After reading your post, I have to say I think he vomited, because it certainly wasn't soon after he swallowed. He had the mouse in his belly for almost 24 hours before throwing up. The mouse looked pretty undigested, as in quite whole, although I don't know much about the digestive process in detail, so I'm not sure what it should look like that early in the stages of digestion.

So you're saying that if it indeed was a vomit, and he had started to digest, an entire two weeks is necessary, as opposed to a regurg? Just out of curiosity (or if you still think this could be to considered a regurg, again not sure how to tell if it had been digested or not) - say wait 5 days or a week to try to feed again?

Hope that all made sense - I'm tired and about to go to bed.

Thank you very much for your time and responses!! :)

If he had it in for 24 hours - wait the full two weeks.

It also wouldn't hurt to pick up some of this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...22&pcatid=6422

Petco carries it. Get the powdered version and sprinkle some on the prey item right before you feed it.

I can't tell you it works - but I can tell you that I've never had an issue with a secondary regurge while using it.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

If he had it in for 24 hours - wait the full two weeks.

It also wouldn't hurt to pick up some of this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...22&pcatid=6422

Petco carries it. Get the powdered version and sprinkle some on the prey item right before you feed it.

I can't tell you it works - but I can tell you that I've never had an issue with a secondary regurge while using it.

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See you did it too!

Vomit, regurge, we all tend to use them interchangeably. Generally when your definition of a regurge happens, I call it "spitting it out".

Either way I agree with your advice as to what to do after the regurge (or vomit).

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

See you did it too!

Vomit, regurge, we all tend to use them interchangeably. Generally when your definition of a regurge happens, I call it "spitting it out".

Either way I agree with your advice as to what to do after the regurge (or vomit).

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Not really.

I've had off and on problems with size-related regurges in growing colubrids. the line when to up the size sometimes gets crossed.........

I use the Benebac as a precaution because there is no set time between when a regurge technically becomes a vomit - it varies by each species and their metabolisms.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

If he had it in for 24 hours - wait the full two weeks.

It also wouldn't hurt to pick up some of this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...22&pcatid=6422

Petco carries it. Get the powdered version and sprinkle some on the prey item right before you feed it.

I can't tell you it works - but I can tell you that I've never had an issue with a secondary regurge while using it.

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Sounds good. Thank you so much for your help :) I really appreciate you taking time to reply.

I'll wait two weeks and try a slightly smaller prey item, and consider the Benebac.

I take it there is little risk in administering the benebac as a precaution, even if it's not necessary? Maybe I'll go to Petco like you said and see what the bottle says :)

Thanks again for all the help.

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Originally Posted by Pip

Sounds good. Thank you so much for your help :) I really appreciate you taking time to reply.

I'll wait two weeks and try a slightly smaller prey item, and consider the Benebac.

I take it there is little risk in administering the benebac as a precaution, even if it's not necessary? Maybe I'll go to Petco like you said and see what the bottle says :)

Thanks again for all the help.

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Think of it as a probiotic for snakes. You can even add it to his water if so inclined.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Think of it as a probiotic for snakes. You can even add it to his water if so inclined.

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Mmkay, awesome. Thanks for all your help Skiploder.