Cinny x Pied???

If a black pastel makes a black panda pied, would the cinny make a brown panda pied? Trying to decide whether to bred our cinnamon with our pied this next year. I understand we are another generation away from a possible cinnypied, but just trying to figure out what a cinny pied will look like. Everything I have read looks like the panda pied comes from the black pastel x pied.

actually if im correct a cinny does make panda pieds. cause cinny x cinny makes and all black snake just add the pied part and you got a panda pied.
any one correct me if im wrong. black pastel are cinnimon pastels so go for it and tried to make them panda pied hope this helps.

Yea normally your super cinnys are a little more brownish than the black pastels, but it would still make a panda pied. Maybe with just a little more brown, but i've seen super cinnys that were black and black pastels that were a little more brown.... So its luck of the draw whether you get one more browned out or more black, but i say go for it!!

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Originally Posted by cstruthers

i say go for it!!

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X2
It would be sweet either way, brown or black :P

I'm pretty sure that they'd both wind up with barely noticeable differences in results, try it out and see what happens!

I'm actually hoping to produce a milk chocolate super cinny pied in a few years.

Nothing against the panda pied, but I think a chocolate brown and white pied would be awsome!

Gale

Either way you get a Panda.

Black Pastels and Cinnamons are similar to Lessers and Butters, either way you get the same results. They're different in that the results have more range to them.

Personally I'd kill for an Ian G Black Pastel, because the end result of them is usually a nice solid black super. It's all up to your personal taste, and if you want a brown one I'd suggest messing with Cinnamons. The best option would be to get a couple more brownish supers, then breed them, select the browns you want for a couple generations, and hopefully produce a reliable line of brown snakes...

But thas assuming you have the funds and an infinite life span, these aren't pea plants, you know. :rolleye2:

Well, I sold most of our collection and we are just down to a pair of pieds (which we have 7 eggs with 30 days left until piping) and a male cinnamon. I was going to sell the cinny but have been thinking of trying to go the route of the panda pied. I might just aquire another female normal and work on my super cinny and then breed that with our pied later in 3 years or so. It really is an investment in time if you want to produce the "super" rare morphs.

Hit the female pieds with the male cinnamon, keep the females and a male (cinnamon/hets), hit the females with the cinnamon het male.

You may be able to get one in a couple generations, from there pick what coloration and white level you want, and keep breeding until you ultimately get exactly what you're looking for (and probably a heck of a lot of money).

Long task but at least you may get some pandas sooner than other alternatives.

So with the male cinny and the female pied I will get all cinnamons het for pied? Breed all the female cinnamon het pieds with a male cinnamon het pied from the same clutch? I think that is what you are saying. What all will I get? I would assume a possible super cinnamon, panda pieds and cinnamons het pied...is that right?

No, no, sorry.

Breed the male cinny to the female pied. You get Het Pieds and Het Pied Cinnys, keep the Het Pied Cinny females and one Het Pied Cinny Male, it's luck of the draw there, but if you have 1 or more female and one male, you're set.

Then have the Cinny Het Pied male mate with the Cinny Het Pied Females and you'll have a 6.25% chance of getting a Panda. More females, more eggs.

Since the female Cinny Het Pieds will take 2-3 seasons before they can breed if you want when your male is ready you can breed him to the original female Pied. If you do you'll have a 25% chance of getting a Cinny Pied. If any of these is male, raise it, breed it to the female Cinny Het Pieds. Thus giving you a 12.5% chance of a Panda.

OK that makes sense. I have tried to understand the ins and outs of this trying to get the panda, but i have just not been able to see it in my mind from reading all the info on here from the genetics. I will hate to miss breeding my pieds next year but it will just be one year and i am going to keep at least one female pied from my current clutch and breed her (or them if I decide to keep more than one female). I think the way it will work out if I keep all our females we are about to hatch and next year we keep the cinny het pied male they will all be ready to breed in 2012 and i will definately be able to increase my chances for a panda. Is there any idea what happens if you end up with a male and female panda and you breed them together?

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Originally Posted by l791020

Is there any idea what happens if you end up with a male and female panda and you breed them together?

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100% Pandas

Its 2 homozygous snakes breeding to eachother, the offspring will be the same as the parents. Super Cinnamons produce Super Cinnamons when bred together, and Pieds produce Pieds when bred together, thus Super Cinnamon Pieds will produce Super Cinnamon Pieds.

Also if you have more than one pied females, you can choose which one to breed your Male Cinny Het Pied to, or just breed him to all of them. If you select specific things like high or low white for the pieds then that may prove to be genetic and at least give you a higher chance of similar white levels. Breeding the Male Cinny Het Pied to the female Pieds then selecting the Male Cinny Pied with the appropriate level of white to breed to your female Cinny Het Pieds.

Note that white level isnt going to be directly transferred, it would take many generations to select out white level as a genetic trait, but at least selecting it early and continuing it through generations that way would get you started.

I thought they would be 100% panda. It would be hard to hold on to the panda if you were able to produce one. If you put a panda with a normal what are all your possible options? Cinny, pied, super cinny and some hets?

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Originally Posted by l791020

I thought they would be 100% panda. It would be hard to hold on to the panda if you were able to produce one. If you put a panda with a normal what are all your possible options? Cinny, pied, super cinny and some hets?

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100% Cinny Het Pied.

well I didn't expect that.

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Originally Posted by l791020

well I didn't expect that.

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Its a homozygous snake being bred to another homozygous snake, however the traits they have arent the same, thus all snakes get 1 of each gene, normals have no special genes, thus 1 each of the 2 homozygous genes (in the Panda) that make up each trait gives you heterozygous for both traits that make up the Panda, which would be Cinny and Het Pied, thus Cinny Het Pied.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. Now if I can only hit the odds in 3 years. If it does happen you will likely read about it here. Thanks again!

Cinny Male x Pied Female = Cinny Het Pied Male and females
1 year
Cinny Het Pied Male x Pied Female = Cinny Pied Male
1 year
Cinny Pied Male x Cinny Het Pied Female = Panda

So in 2-3 years you can pull it off, if you just happen to get the right outcomes every time.

Well I just hope I can cross all the right things and hit the odds. My buddy has always said I could step in crap and find a $20...let's see if he is right.