Has anyone successfully fought a city bylaw against owning reptiles?

I received a visit from Animal Control this evening. Apparently one of my neighbors complained because they saw my son on our front lawn with his ball python. Hamilton has a bylaw against owning any reptile at all. No one seems to remember that every pet store in Hamilton sells reptiles including two stores that sell exclusively reptiles. I've been ordered to eliminate all reptiles from my house by August. :mad: I'm furious!:mad:

I have snakes, geckos, and beardies who are all kept in proper habitats and are well taken care of.

Has anyone out there ever successfully fought such a bylaw? Some other (reptile-loving) neighbors suggesting setting ourselves up as a rescue centre (since we have several such animals here) or an educational centre (since we take some of our pets to locals schools). Do these sound like good ideas? I'll be calling my city council rep tomorrow but I thought I'd run it past my BP.Net friends to see if any you have ideas.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give!

I can't speak for Canada at all, but herper folks here in Omaha, NE got the city ordinance changed from a 6 foot limit for snakes to an 8 foot limit for snakes several years ago.

Nothing is going to change by August. I'm afraid you may have to find someone outside of your town to adopt your animals until things can change. Talking to your rep is a good first start. Find out what they think and go from there. You may want to canvas the pet stores and get their take on the situation. Whatever you do, don't start dropping dimes on other herpers, keep this disaster to yourself. You may never know, your rep could be a herp lover and could champion your cause, or they could say they never want to see a reptile in your town. If you get the latter response, the only way for you to change the law will cost you big money. Being in Canada, doesn't it take a parliamentary procedure to change a local ordinance? If so, then you are in for a long fight. If not, then it may be possible. But there may be options other than changing the law.

I'm thinking, if you were to send your herps to a friend's home that lives outside your city. Get the inpection from your Animal Control officer, then say, sometime in October, quietly bring back the herps to your home, who would care?

Good luck regardless!
Jim Smith

Jim,
hey I did a very quick look around and might have found a way out. You will need to make a call or two and double check it but...

"Pet stores can own illegal species, such as pine snakes, kingsnakes and boa constrictors, as long as they don't sell them, said Debbie Spence, a city communications manager."
THE HAMILTON SPECTATOR

Start a mail order pet store. Register a company name and buy a handful of product (substrate perhaps) and start a web site and mark silly pricing on it and presto a work-around.

You will need to double check the facts and find out what it takes to be called a store but that may not be that hard actually hell you might be able to get a dealership and buy supplies wholesale and sell some stuff and help pay for feeders. Who knows? It is worth a try.
Good Luck!
Alex

http://www.thespec.com/article/783176

I say that if you can work it out, from now on do not take your snake outside at all, it isn't necessary and it just freaks people out.

If you want to fight city hall, start with the pet stores who's business is selling these animals(after all they are also breaking the law). Get them to join you in your fight, otherwise the stink you raise may force them out of business. Also the city is more likely to listen to a business owner bringing revenue into the town instead of one lone person. The city ticks you off so what but four business' pack up leave and fire all their employees in the process gets their attention.

I live in st catharines (just east of Hamilton) and Hamilton laws regarding snakes are stupid. It's legal when your in the pet store to have a snake then once you leave your breaking the law? Everyone in Hamilton owns snakes, EVERYONE! How do you think 2 of the largest feeder retailers are surviving in Hamilton?

It's time everyone gets together to get this law changed.

Oh and btw, if you have a decent sized burm, feed the person who called the SPCA on you to it.

Thanks for the suggestions. (Especially the one about feeding the snitcher to the Burm :rofl:. Unfortunately, my largest reptile is a 900g BP. Maybe next year when she's all grown up:please:. ... and rest easy I have no thought of ratting out any other herpers.

Actually I've been doing more research and it looks like the current bylaw is currently being amended to allow "non-venomous reptiles the will not cause injury". I have my City Counsellor looking into that for me. If that doesn't provide any hope we still have a few more ideas. Thanks for all of your suggestions and well wishes. I will keep you posted.

Sounds like some good news. Hope it all works out for you!

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

This is news to me. I bought Baby from the Big Al's on Centennial before I moved North. Where in Hamilton are you? It might be part of some really old ordinance from before the city incorporated Stoney Creek and Ancaster and all those other communities, that used to apply in only one area and no one bothered to check on it.

Have you given thought to contacting the local Ombudsman? I believe that it is their job evaluate 'unfair' laws and acts of the government. Being able to keep reptiles as a store but not sell them and "non-venomous reptiles the will not cause injury" but being told to remove them anyway I think that if the local guy can't help the Ombudsman might be able to. It might be worth a call and find out.
Keep us posted as to how it is going. Good luck!
Alex

Unfortunately, by-laws that restrict the size of reptiles or ban them altogether cannot be considered "unfair" as they take 99% of the population into consideration.
With regards to starting up an internet store from your home, you will have to go through the process of changing your home zoning from residential to residential/commercial. That's more work than fighting the "unfair" bylaw.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but since you've already been called out by the by-law officer for breaking whatever by-law you broke, you're SOL.
If this does blow over, do your best to keep your collection to yourself (inside your home) as most breeders and hobbyists that live in a by-law unfriendly community do. That's why things like this happen.
Good luck.

Forgot the main crux of your original post; yes, bylaws have been fought and changed. The Pawleys did it in Kitchener. They are intelligent, well-spoken reptile educators who are well-known in the community that they spoke up for. They also did not attempt to change to he bylaws after being caught breaking the law they were trying to change, so they had that going for them as well.

i would have to say any well thought out argument is at least worth the listen and gets questions asked. straight forward and honest throughout and changes can be considered over time or at least a half way point

This is not exactly the same scenario, but I am working on getting a one day exemption granted for holding annual one day reptile expo and sales in a city here in central Wisconsin. So far though, I have not received any definitive answers or decision from the City public protection committee. It could be a process that may take several weeks given they meet only monthly.

Eric

Regarding fighting these ordinances in general though, I believe you will stand a much greater chance of succeeding if you present yourself professionally to them and provide as much detailed and factual information as possible about the animals. It also helps to be honest and upfront with them. The less questions they have to ask, the greater your chances IMO. If you emphasize that most of these animals are small and harmless, and will be kept in secure caging that they cannot escape from, and that you are a responsible pet owner, you may turn some receptive ears as well. Now this is not to say this is 100% guranteed to work, but your chances will be greater if you try this than if you do not.

Eric

You can always file a variance with the city. That is what I did when they stated I had to get rid of my two 9ft plus peruvian red tails. They stated they were "dangerous and could kill a baby" I had to fill out some paperwork, I had a petition and had it signed by everyone who has held my snakes, took pictures with my snakes around little kids to show they were no threat and came up with a powerpoint since I was given the right to fight in front of a city council which was making the decision. In the powerpoint I had the history of the snakes, pictures from when they were babies, their enclosure, highlighting the lock on the enclosure and how they are never in contact with "babies" alone. Their whole arguement as to why I couldn't get the snakes were rediculous. I had to pay $350 whether or not I won the variance or not.

Long story short, and many 'heated' phonecalls later to the chief city inspector who required I get rid of them ended up in me losing and having to get rid of the snakes or move.

If I were you and there was no way around it, I'd get everything out when they check and move it back in and just don't let your kid play in the front yard with them.

People are ignorant to these animals and fear them which is why they come up with such rediculous laws.