Mystic combos?

Can any one tell me what other combos can be produced from a mystic other than the potion please?
I get confused with the mystic, phantom, special thing :oops:

Not many have been done so its all up to you on what you want to try for.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Not many have been done so its all up to you on what you want to try for.

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I have a nice lesser/mojave bel..I thought a mystic might be worth picking up, I have been told that the mystic lesser would probably be a bel

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

I have a nice lesser/mojave bel..I thought a mystic might be worth picking up, I have been told that the mystic lesser would probably be a bel

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Well its proven phantom x mojo,butter,lesser is a BEL.

Mystic x mojo is the potion.

So a mystic lesser might be something different as mystic and phantoms are not the same

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Well its proven phantom x mojo,butter,lesser is a BEL.

Mystic x mojo is the potion.

So a mystic lesser might be something different as mystic and phantoms are not the same

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May well be worth a try..love the potions anyway so would be an intresting pairing :gj:

Phantoms to mojaves do not make a BEL. They make purple passions which are the same as mystic potions. So any combo with a phantom/mystic X mojave will make the potions/passions. Add other stuff into mojos and see what you get. I will be breeding my phantom to a mojave spider and should get passions, mojo spiders, mojos, phantoms, phantom spiders, and if I am lucky get a spider passion.

Joe Ellis

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Originally Posted by JoeEllisReptiles

Phantoms to mojaves do not make a BEL. They make purple passions which are the same as mystic potions. So any combo with a phantom/mystic X mojave will make the potions/passions. Add other stuff into mojos and see what you get. I will be breeding my phantom to a mojave spider and should get passions, mojo spiders, mojos, phantoms, phantom spiders, and if I am lucky get a spider passion.

Joe Ellis

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Sorry buddy but it was proven this year phantom x mojo makes BEL. Jas produced a bel from his phantom to mojo.

Purple pasison/ mystic potion are from the mojo x mystic.

Really?!?! When was that done and are there pics? I may rethink my breeding plans now. Has anyone done the mystics to white diamond stuff yet?

Joe Ellis

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Sorry buddy but it was proven this year phantom x mojo makes BEL. JasBall Pythons produced a bel from his phantom to mojo.

Purple pasison/ mystic potion are from the mojo x mystic.

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So it is a BEL??? I heard it was a Mytic Potion...

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Originally Posted by JoeEllisReptiles

Really?!?! When was that done and are there pics? I may rethink my breeding plans now. Has anyone done the mystics to white diamond stuff yet?

Joe Ellis

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No pics yet they are still piping. I cant wait to see the pics as well as i thought passions came out of that pairing. And if his is a bel he proved many wrong on that aspect.

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Originally Posted by sho220

So it is a BEL??? I heard it was a Mytic Potion...

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mystic potion is mystic x mojo. might get the potion if bred to lesser,butter idk as havent heard of that yet.

Yeah I have heard from many that they are in fact the same snake.... I guess this would prove lots wrong.... good to know though

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Originally Posted by JoeEllisReptiles

Yeah I have heard from many that they are in fact the same snake.... I guess this would prove lots wrong.... good to know though

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Yep it sure is.

looks like I might have to pick up a mystic now ha

Interesting. I've started other threads asking if the Mystic-Lesser produced a BEL and so far nada. If the Phantom-Mojo produced a BEL then they are not the same after all. I really am looking at getting a Mystic but I want to know whether or not they produce a BEL with a Lesser before I do. Otherwise I might go Phantom instead.

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic Exotic

Interesting. I've started other threads asking if the Mystic-Lesser produced a BEL and so far nada. If the Phantom-Mojo produced a BEL then they are not the same after all. I really am looking at getting a Mystic but I want to know whether or not they produce a BEL with a Lesser before I do. Otherwise I might go Phantom instead.

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If you like both get both.

I want to see the babies from a mojave to a phantom :)

its a potion,jas always cuts early,and color is the last to develope...

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Originally Posted by KMS

its a potion,jas always cuts early,and color is the last to develope...

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Yes he just confirmed what he thought bel is a passion. So its proven Phantom x mojo will get you the passions. So my source saying you get passions was right but Jas had me thinking WTH

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Yes he just confirmed what he thought bel is a passion. So its proven Phantom x mojo will get you the passions. So my source saying you get passions was right but Jas had me thinking WTH

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Okay then. Has anybody done the Mystic x Lesser or Mystic x Butter and gotten a BEL? It seems like this is the only combo left to say 100% that the Mystic and Phantom are definitely the same gene.

I would think the best way to tell if they are the same morph is to breed a mystic to a phantom

WOO HOO!!!!! Okay so I am going with same snake different lines. Phantom to Lesser makes BEL. Phantom to Mojave Makes Passions. Mystics to Mojaves Make Potions and I would bet my collection that Mystics to Lessers will make BEL.

So here is my breeding plans for next year now that I know what I should produce.......

Phantom X Mojave
Phantom X Spider Mojave
Phantom X 100% Het. White Diamond
Phantom X White Diamond

I hope it works out!!

Thanks

Joe Ellis

Oh and if anyone has a Mystic Female I would be more than willing to let them breed it to my RDR Phantom to see what pops out

Joe Ellis

for me mystics and phantoms are the same but differnt lines- just als butter and lesser.

if a snake look much like another- produce the same super form- with others produce the same lokking sankes (passions/potions)- it is the same!!!


at least for me!!!

same in butter and lesser. both produce bel as super form- both have the daddy super super form- its the same- just differnt lines...


same in coral glow and banana
toffee and candy and maybe burgundy albino
ultramel and crider and strawberry and (possible) the new imported strawberry and cream

but thats my side of view

other ppl see that differnt...

I agree

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Originally Posted by joe23

for me mystics and phantoms are the same but differnt lines- just als butter and lesser.

if a snake look much like another- produce the same super form- with others produce the same lokking sankes (passions/potions)- it is the same!!!


at least for me!!!

same in butter and lesser. both produce bel as super form- both have the daddy super super form- its the same- just differnt lines...


same in coral glow and banana
toffee and candy and maybe burgundy albino
ultramel and crider and strawberry and (possible) the new imported strawberry and cream

but thats my side of view

other ppl see that differnt...

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I agree as well!!!!! :tp:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joe23

for me mystics and phantoms are the same but differnt lines- just als butter and lesser.

if a snake look much like another- produce the same super form- with others produce the same lokking sankes (passions/potions)- it is the same!!!


at least for me!!!

same in butter and lesser. both produce bel as super form- both have the daddy super super form- its the same- just differnt lines...


same in coral glow and banana
toffee and candy and maybe burgundy albino
ultramel and crider and strawberry and (possible) the new imported strawberry and cream

but thats my side of view

other ppl see that differnt...

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Just to be clear, it's been proven that a Butter to a het Platty (the normal looking Platty siblings carrying the hidden gene) also produces a Platinum?

That is correct..... Both butters and lessers produce daddies..... Same Snake

Hi,

Just to be clear though - the butter variant should not be called a platinum in truth.

Sticking to calling it butter daddy will avoid the possibility of selling a "platinum" and a "lesser platinum" containing absolutely no morph genes in common. :rofl:

If they are finally poven to be the same gene at some point that would solve it but as long as people want to make a distinction it should really be made across all the combos.


dr del

Heh,

At great risk of personal injury I have been thinking. :oops:

Anyone have an opinion on what a "mystic daddy" might look like?


dr del

See RDR 2005 clutch 44 for the "phantom .44's" which are the phantom with dilute aka hidden aka daddy gene combo.

http://ralphdavisreptiles.com/birthi...thons_5_05.asp

Wow,

Didn't expect that - they look like mojaves. :confused:

I take it there is simply no chance that mojave, lesser and butter genes actually contain two mutations with the dilute daddy gene being one of them?

Or would that mean that all BEL's are actually masked daddys and that a visual daddy is only possible with a gene that actually lacks one of a pair of mutations rather than one that adds a new mutation into the mix? :confused:


dr del

still want to see the jasball cross. It was a mojave to a phantom right? Also why would someone cut an egg that early and confirm a morph when the pigment is not even set in?

Joe Ellis

Hi,

Yeah Jas was talking about it on the UK forum.

Well the pattern would be in so he might be able to spot a difference before the colour comes in fully. :confused:


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

I take it there is simply no chance that mojave, lesser and butter genes actually contain two mutations with the dilute daddy gene being one of them?

dr del

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No chance, the offspring from the platty daddy, butter daddy, etc... either get the visual gene (lesser, butter, etc...) or look normal and carry the hidden gene.

I must say that Ralph Davis is one very lucky breeder. Not only was he the first with one of the most mysterious BP morphs but both of them (Platty and Phantom)! The BEL complex is definitely the most interesting genetically in my opinion.

Hi,

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Originally Posted by jluman

No chance, the offspring from the platty daddy, butter daddy, etc... either get the visual gene (lesser, butter, etc...) or look normal and carry the hidden gene.

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Yes I know - what I meant was that the gene that produces the visuals has both seperate mutations within it while the gene that the normals get only has one which is non-visual.

So if you called the visual part "A" and the non visual part "a" to differentiate them from normal animals "n" then the lessers, mojaves etc would have one copy of the gene which would be "Aa" and the platty sibs would "na"

One gene with two seperate mutations which are only visualy distinct in certain combinations.

The reason I'm wondering as that would make the dilute "daddy gene" simple recessive compared to "dominant but only in conjunction with the blue eyed complex" which just seems messy.

Granted messy is hardly rare in these things. :rolleyes:


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,



Yes I know - what I meant was that the gene that produces the visuals has both seperate mutations within it while the gene that the normals get only has one which is non-visual.

So if you called the visual part "A" and the non visual part "a" to differentiate them from normal animals "n" then the lessers, mojaves etc would have one copy of the gene which would be "Aa" and the platty sibs would "na"

One gene with two seperate mutations which are only visualy distinct in certain combinations.

The reason I'm wondering as that would make the dilute "daddy gene" simple recessive compared to "dominant but only in conjunction with the blue eyed complex" which just seems messy.

Granted messy is hardly rare in these things. :rolleyes:


dr del

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Derek, I think you are making it too complicated :D

The hidden gene is just a member of the platinum complex that looks like a normal ball python. It's not a separate simple recessive, it is inherited in the same way as any other gene in the platinum complex.

Has anyone tried to breed a platty daddy sib to a platty daddy sib to see what comes out? In other words a hg normal x hg normal

ok not to hijack the thread or anything but i have a Q.
does het mean the snake has the gene for something? for example a 66% het albino.
does that mean that snake has a 66% chance of mothering/fathering an albino offspring?

RDR did lots of breedings of the normal looking platy offspring together and only reported normal looking offspring. Later he did platy X platy and got a normal looking female that should be a for sure homozygous hidden/dilute/whatever it's called. Don't know if he has bred it to a homozygous lesser to confirm that it produces 100% platy as expected.

So chemically I have no idea what could be going on to have so many different mutations of this gene. Hidden certainly is an odd allele (version of a gene) in that even the homozygous version looks normal but for breeding purposes just think of it as just like the other versions of this gene but just the most normal looking. If we ever do get DNA info on this gene I bet it will be very interesting (are there differing numbers of duplications or missing genes involved or some activity regulator or pseudogenes).

Heterozygous just means having an unmatched pair of whatever gene you are talking about. If the copy from mom doesn't match the copy from dad then the genotype is heterozygous. We often use it to refer to recessive mutant copies paired with normal but it's just as valid for co-dominant mutations (a pastel is heterozygous) and even two mutant allele combos like platy. If the two copies match it’s homozygous, otherwise it’s heterozygous (excluding the genes on the gender chromosomes that don’t come in pairs).