Would you get a second male?

I have an 08 (700 gram) male Bumble Bee and I was going to breed him to my 3 pastel females and 3 normal females. I am not in it so much for the money, but I just want to produce some nice morphs to make some trades and buy better equipment, racks, rats, incubators, etc (so I do want the best morphs possible). Would it be a wise decision to buy another male Bumble Bee and run both males through the females or should I be ok running my 1 male through all 6 girls? I just want to make sure they all take and I am able to produce some good offspring. If I don't have to, I would rather not buy another male. Thanks for any advice.

Having a backup male is something that I am striving to have myself.. Some of our males breed so strong during the first part of the season that by the time breeding season winds down they are pretty burned out..

Having a back up male means that two males can breed several females and you're not risking burning one male out. If you notice one male tiring out then you have the second male pick up the slack.

One never knows whether your male will do 1, 2, 3 or all 6 till you try.
He may do 6 then again he may do none :(

My yellow belly male would breed a branch and probably do 10 girls in a season if I let him, lol.

If I was you, I would buy a backup male but not another bumblebee. I would make it a double Co Dom though, and probably something without the Pastel gene. Sulfur Mojave, Lemonblast, Cinnabee....etc. What other morphs do you like besides Pastel?

Dave

I just love the Bumble Bees. Breeding him to a pastel and having the chance of Killer Bees or Super Pastels is something I was really looking forward to. Also, I was hoping to put more funds into caring for the snakes......but, I am the kind of guy that has to have insurance. I would hate to look forward to a descent chance of getting some good morphs and end up with nothing! I really like the Lemonblast but not sure it is in my price range. I guess I will have to start pricing some young males. Thats why I loved the bee, affordable and a good chance of getting good offspring.

Any suggestions? Again, my females are 3 normals and 3 pastels. Thanks!

I'd definitely pick up another male even if its just a nice pastel. Some males aren't strong breeders, some need time to "figure it out", and some are just PICKY! Not saying that you're guy won't be a breeding machine, but better safe than sorry.

Good luck with them next season!

A Super Pastel would not be bad, if you really like Pastels.....or a Lesser or Mojave cross.

Dave

My two males that may end up "sharing" some girls this year are my bumblebee (who has already proven himself as an enthusiastic breeder) and my pewter. Both a bumblebee and a pewter will give you a shot at super pastels if bred to a pastel female, and the pewter gives you a shot at the sterling, which is one of my favorite morphs :cool:

A lemonblast would be another good one, and in a similar price range to the above two (eh -- maybe a little more for a good one :rolleyes: ) ... Still have a chance for the super pastel, plus killer blasts ..!

Yeah, I've been researching Spinners and Lemon Blasts. A huge part of me wants that Lemon Blast so bad but then I look at the price again and come down to reality. The breeder I bought the Bee from advised me that an 08 male NOT getting with the girls is very very highly unlikely. So, now I get to think about it for the next couple of months. We have a reptile show in Arlington, TX at the end of July so if I see something for a descent price, I may jump on it. If not, I may just take my chance with my bee. Decisions, decisions.......

I never buy a second male of the same morph as long as it breeds at all. But I have always held back the first one I produce so I have a backup.

I agree that if you add another male, you might as well add another gene or two to your collection.

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Originally Posted by herpenthusiast

I agree that if you add another male, you might as well add another gene or two to your collection.

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Totally agree..why add a pastel as a backup when you can add a Bee or super Pastel, Why add a Pinstripe when for a little more money you can add a Lemon Blast or a something of the like..

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

If I was you, I would buy a backup male but not another bumblebee. I would make it a double Co Dom though, and probably something without the Pastel gene. Sulfur Mojave, Lemonblast, Cinnabee....etc. What other morphs do you like besides Pastel?

Dave

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A LemonBlast would have the Pastel gene...

Anyway, I would grab a Lemon Blast or a nice Butter or Lesser. Queen Bees are one of my favs.


Gavin

If I do get another male, it will probably be a Lemon Blast or Lesser. It all depends on how my funds look in a couple of months. I guess I would need an 08 or 09 male around 400g or above to breed with my girls by December right?

Just throwing something in from the other side of the fence, it looks like your interested in the bee's and supers from these breedings. How about trading in those 3 normal females for one more pastel female(or another gene thats not normal).

This would reduce your Bee's females from 6 to 4. A workload that a breeding male BP "should" be able to handle.

If you do get a second male I would get a different gene in there though

I would also have to agree on getting a second male. Get whatever you like, as long as you will be happy with what you produce, the money should not mean everything.

I am not worried about the money, of course I will take all Killer Bees if I had a choice! I got the bee for a chance at Killer Bees and more Bee's, which are definetely my favorite.

I actually would not mind trading the 3 normal females in and getting 1 more pastel female at all. Four pastel females would be fairly easy to manage and I would have better odds with my boy mating with 4 pastel girls. At the same time, do you think I would have any luck with a breeder trying to trade 3 normal females for a sub-adult female pastel (or similar)? I know I would have to put some cash in there too, which wouldn't be a problem.

I have heard of some people throwing in a strong proven male with their females in the early season, then the second half, putting in the male they want offspring from so he is fresh and ready to breed. Anybody actually tried this before?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Larson

I have heard of some people throwing in a strong proven male with their females in the early season, then the second half, putting in the male they want offspring from so he is fresh and ready to breed. Anybody actually tried this before?

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I did that this season. I started a female out with a beast of a Spider male and once she started developing good follicles I threw the enchi male to her.. He started breeding her and hasn't looked back..

So let me just get this straight. A female does not actually obtain a male's sperm untill she begins to develop follicles? All the stuff before that in the winter is just "foreplay"?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Larson

So let me just get this straight. A female does not actually obtain a male's sperm untill she begins to develop follicles? All the stuff before that in the winter is just "foreplay"?

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This is something that is still unsure.. I have had females this year develop follicles simply because they are housed close to a breeding pair. Then I've had females that didn't start developing untill they started breeding..

I also know that not every time we see a "lock" they aren't truly locked up.. So yes there is some "Foreplay" that goes on it's called Courting..

I guess I more meant to ask if you use a male early on in the season, can you be sure that the babies will be from the second male, and not the first?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Larson

I guess I more meant to ask if you use a male early on in the season, can you be sure that the babies will be from the second male, and not the first?

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Nope.. Sometimes you'll even get mixed clutches..

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Originally Posted by Andrew Larson

So let me just get this straight. A female does not actually obtain a male's sperm untill she begins to develop follicles? All the stuff before that in the winter is just "foreplay"?

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I could be totally wrong but I don't think that is right because there have been postings/stories of females retaining sperm from previous year partners and getting clutches from those previous year partners even though they were not bred in the current year

I was actually thinking about getting a proven spider male for two of my girls and letting my bee have the other 4 girls. After reading the last few posts, I thought about putting the proven male to all the girls to get them going, but if there is a chance he can produce all the offsping, I will just let my bee have the 4 girls and spider (if I get him) have the other 2.