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Pumas fresh out of the egg
Here is my latest clutch to hatch. Male het puma to yellowbelly. There is no pastel in these.
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/IMG_6090.jpg
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Wow those are awesome! What are the genetics? A het puma to a yellow belly makes a puma?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
was the YB het puma as well.
Not familiar with that morph and looks like a nice project ot get into. Any info would be great. PM or here id love to know more.
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/puma/
EDIT: apparently a puma is a yellowbelly pastel
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Awesome group of Snakes!
The single stripe from head to tail is really cool :gj:
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Very nice looking, I always thought that the puma was the european version of the champagne? Am I getting my morphs mixed up?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
Very nice looking, I always thought that the puma was the european version of the champagne? Am I getting my morphs mixed up?
Yes you are, one is co dom other is recessive
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
their hot but im lost. puma = pastel yellowbelly but its said that theres no pastel in these but the breeding is a het puma x yellowbelly? what is the het in a 2 codom morph am i missing something that right in front of my face?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by 771subliminal
their hot but im lost. puma = pastel yellowbelly but its said that theres no pastel in these but the breeding is a het puma x yellowbelly? what is the het in a 2 codom morph am i missing something that right in front of my face?
Im in the same postion as i want some. And if thats all it takes in YB x pastel im all for it this season. But im sure its more than that.
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
Very nice looking, I always thought that the puma was the european version of the champagne? Am I getting my morphs mixed up?
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/champagne/
i guess champs are called pumas too
this only makes me more lost :confused:
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Thanks for all the comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons
was the YB het puma as well.
No, only 2 genes in there. Het puma and yellowbelly. A het puma/yellowbelly is a puma.
Not familiar with that morph and looks like a nice project ot get into. Any info would be great. PM or here id love to know more.
See below for history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters
Wow those are awesome! What are the genetics? A het puma to a yellow belly makes a puma?
Thanks, see below for history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by het.pied
Not entirely. This is what was thought when first produced. Since that I have produced pumas and they are yellow without pastel in the mix. The pastel puma is slightly lighter with a lighter head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
Very nice looking, I always thought that the puma was the european version of the champagne? Am I getting my morphs mixed up?
The champagne is called the puma overseas. Amir named it, there is some confusion on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons
Yes you are, one is co dom other is recessive
They both are codom so far.
So here is the story.
The first one was produced by Amir in 2007. He had it at the Daytona show. It was assumed the snake was a pastel super stripe. None had been produced yet and Amir had breed a citrus pastel yellowbelly to a female CH that he assumed was a spector. I had purchased a male spector from Amir in Tinley that year after Daytona. Sometime later in the year BHB produced what was known to be pastel super stripe and it looks nothing like the Puma.
I think the highway and the puma were thought to be the same until I produced a puma last year with no pastel involved in the breeding. I assumed I had purchase a spector until the Puma popped out in the clutch. The pastel puma's Amir has produced seem to be lighter with whiter heads. I don't think the puma and pastel puma have been compared side by side.
So the puma is a het puma(bad name) to a yellowbelly. Just a 2 gene morph.
I think there is also some confusion on the name. Amir named it the puma but overseas the champagne is called the puma.
The Champagne and the puma are not the same morph.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons
Im in the same postion as i want some. And if thats all it takes in YB x pastel im all for it this season. But im sure its more than that.
i know i want one too but it has to be more than pastel x yb cuz this looks way diff
http://ballpythonbreeder.com/photogr...-yellow-belly/
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall
Thanks for all the comments.
See below for history.
Thanks, see below for history.
Not entirely. This is what was thought when first produced. Since that I have produced pumas and they are yellow without pastel in the mix. The pastel puma is slightly lighter with a lighter head.
The champagne is called the puma overseas. Amir named it, there is some confusion on that.
They both are codom so far.
So here is the story.
The first one was produced by Amir in 2007. He had it at the Daytona show. It was assumed the snake was a pastel super stripe. None had been produced yet and Amir had breed a citrus pastel yellowbelly to a female CH that he assumed was a spector. I had purchased a male spector from Amir in Tinley that year after Daytona. Sometime later in the year BHB produced what was known to be pastel super stripe and it looks nothing like the Puma.
I think the highway and the puma were thought to be the same until I produced a puma last year with no pastel involved in the breeding. I assumed I had purchase a spector until the Puma popped out in the clutch. The pastel puma's Amir has produced seem to be lighter with whiter heads. I don't think the puma and pastel puma have been compared side by side.
So the puma is a het puma(bad name) to a yellowbelly. Just a 2 gene morph.
I think there is also some confusion on the name. Amir named it the puma but overseas the champagne is called the puma.
The Champagne and the puma are not the same morph.
Hope that helps.
so what does this het. puma look like?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
I'm still confused to what a Puma is how can it be het puma if its co-dom ? Photos of the male would be nice to see, If the Puma is co-dom what is the super form ?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Hey bro... Sweet Job!! I'm interested....
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestas
I'm still confused to what a Puma is how can it be het puma if its co-dom ? Photos of the male would be nice to see, If the Puma is co-dom what is the super form ?
I'm still with you. A het that is a codom, and a het when bred to a yellowbelly which is "het" for ivory, not puma, makes a puma :rolleye2:
I agree, I want to see the het puma too. Is the het puma actually just a puma and when bred to a yellow belly makes a yellow belly puma?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
It's similiar to a Spector buy instead of making a super stripe it makes the puma
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjudson
It's similiar to a Spector buy instead of making a super stripe it makes the puma
Ok, that makes sense.
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
I think I've got it... Please correct me if I'm wrong.
These pumas, are a completely different mutation then what they call the puma over in europe.
These pumas, when bred to a yellow belly, can produce offspring that are similar to an ivory ball, but with a lot more color and a very pronounced stripe down the back?
Is it possible that the yellow belly, the puma and the spector could all be different alleles of the same gene somewhat similar to the differences between lessers, mojaves and mystics?
I remember when Amir posted a picture of what he was calling a pastel super stripe. I thought it was an amazing looking animal, but then when I later saw another picture of a pastel superstripe I was a little less impressed. I remember another picture that Amir posted around that time of a snake that looked like a really dark superstripe (I don't remember what he called it now, but it was pretty hot) Is it possible that this gene might have been involved with that as well?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
So what do one of these beauties go for.....I want one!!!! :D
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Marks is on the right path. The thought is the yellowbelly, spector, het puma, het highway are all alleles. Just like the way the BEL complex is.
Amir thought that was a pastel super stripe. But once the other one was produced it was decided it was a different combo.
I think the snake you may be referring too is the Suma. It is the super form of the mahogany. It does not have any yellowbelly in it.
SUper MAhogany = SUMA
Here is the picture of my male breeder het puma.
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/IMG_6181.jpg
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
I've never heard anyone on this side of the pond call a Champagne a Puma... The only morph I know that have the same name is the Banana, but there is no way that you could confuse the European "Banana" to the other one.
I think the confusion comes from McCurlys book where the Champagne is one of the unproven morphs and is labeled as Puma on one of the pages.
Just my 2 cents! Nice looking snakes you have by the way... ;)
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
ive never heard the name puma for a champagne here too. champagnes are champagnes...
and as far as i understand that hole het thing in co doms is:
an ivory is the super form of the yellow bellie. if the yellow belly would not have that name, it would be called het ivory
same thing is here with the puma / het. puma
it happend with the sentinel too.
the superform was first... thats why it was named first- so the normal forms of the co dom traits are called het.
its confusing, but if u get it once it isnt that hard to understand...
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Those are really amazing snakes, Mega congrats!
Has anyone done Het Puma to Het Puma?
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Wow man nice looking snakes.
Does the het puma have the belly markings like a yellow belly? From the top it kinda looks like a darker yellow belly, but I can't really make an accurate assumption without a belly pic. I guess what I'm getting at... Is the puma just a hidden gene yellow belly? or.. Is it just working like the mojave x specter is right now and throwing colorful ivories or yellow belly puma's... whatever they are called?
Either way they are beautiful animals. Congrats on a great clutch. :gj:
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle
Those are really amazing snakes, Mega congrats!
Has anyone done Het Puma to Het Puma?
Not that I know of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionsPythons
Wow man nice looking snakes.
Does the het puma have the belly markings like a yellow belly? From the top it kinda looks like a darker yellow belly, but I can't really make an accurate assumption without a belly pic. I guess what I'm getting at... Is the puma just a hidden gene yellow belly? or.. Is it just working like the mojave x specter is right now and throwing colorful ivories or yellow belly puma's... whatever they are called?
Either way they are beautiful animals. Congrats on a great clutch. :gj:
The belly does not look like a yellow belly. I will try and get a picture posted of the bely
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Re: Pumas fresh out of the egg
what will a spector x spector produce?
has it been done yet?
any other combos made with the spector gene, and what do they look like?
Im curious because I picked up a spector male Sunday :).
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