Starting a Reptiles Sanctuary in Florida

I live in South Florida and i am trying to start a reptile sanctuary so people can bring in there snakes or lizards or amphibians they do not want anymore, so they don't feel the need to go let them go in a park or in the everglades etc. I believe if this was around before the reptile bans, we wouldn't have a problem with burms etc in our ecosystem and we wouldn't have these new laws. So i have been starting slowly by posting adds on Craigslist.com for unwanted reptiles. Guess what?? Ive received 5 ball pythons a savannah monitor and a beardy in the last month and a half, seems pretty darn effective to me. Now turn that into something big and get a building to house a lot of reptiles and advertise on TV and that will solve our reptile problem. So the more people willing to help maybe we all can make this a reality.

Do you have the funds to keep these critters alive? I know the beardie alone is like a minimum of $15 a week and if rats are 1.50 each that's 7.50 for the recent rescues. And that sav. I'm not 100% but o think they eat a mouse every other day? $3.50 for him a week. Seems small at $26 a week but that's like $100 bucks a month just for the recent rescues!

How will you get rid of the animals that you adopt?

Sounds like a good idea but the invasion in Florida wasn't caused by pet owners. There just the ones being blamed :).

Good luck Austin :)

Yes i do have the funds for just my personal animals that's why im not going any further as of now and ive adopted out the beardy and savvy already to good friends that are in the reptile business one works at our local reptile wholesale Strictly Reptiles and i know a few FWC officers who love reptiles and hate the new laws, my buddy Frank whos an FWC officer, i gave him my Albino Burmese to because he had the permits and i did not. And im breeding my own mice so no fees there. I have friends in all sorts of places so if i get more reptiles they will gladly take them in. I wont adopt reptiles out to just anyone i am very weary about who i adopt them out to.

Hi,

The thing that has always worried me about reptile resues is the quarantine issue.

I am in no way trying to bust your chops but do you have 7 different rooms you can QT animals in or did you use one room with all the animals in it and reset the QT clock with each one? and, since you have already re-homed three animals, how long did you QT them before deciding they were clean?

The idea of lots of different animals coming together from lots of different sources, being held in the same location then disseminated to lots of different end point collections is a vertiable nightmare if something went wrong. :(

Reptile resues also tend to get a disproportionately large number of animals with problems which can get very expensive given the price charged by qualified vets.

Have you had many problems with people trying to surrender the newly illegal animals? How does that sit legally?


dr del

The "illegal" animals aren't illegal yet. Not until July. And I am sure there will still be amnesty days. But the first thing I think you should do is apply for your 501C(3) status so that you can accept donations and for real be a rescue. You will also need some of the permits from FWC which I'm sure your friends can clue you in on.

First get rid of the idea that the burmese in the Everglades came from pet owners releasing their snakes.

Second, lay out a plan on paper of what you can take in, what species you cannot take in(ROC unless you can get a permit), what can you house, where can you quarentine... and how you'll pay for all of it?

Reptile rescues usually end up with a large number of animals they can't adopt out, either because the people who DO like/want them already have been given animals, or they don't have the facilities or permits or money to properly keep them.

If you take in ball pythons for instance, you'll need ot have a quarentine, and also a holding area to house XX ball pythons. The quarentine time starts ANYTIME a new animal has been brought in. So if you have 10 ball pythons that have been in quarentine for 5 months... and you want to take another one, you'll have 11 ball pythons in there for another 6 months.(or however long your quarentine is).

How many mice can you produce per week? Can you expand that if you grow? Can you breed and raise your own mealworms/crickets/feeders? How much bedding will you need per week? What will you do with the soiled bedding? What about an exotic vet? How will you cover vets bills, and at what point would you euthanize rather than treat?

Just trying to think of all the concerns to address before you suddenly get in over your head. All the little details that a lot of people here have addressed with their personal collectiosn would be relevant to your proposed rescue. Best of luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

First get rid of the idea that the burmese in the Everglades came from pet owners releasing their snakes.

Second, lay out a plan on paper of what you can take in, what species you cannot take in(ROC unless you can get a permit), what can you house, where can you quarentine... and how you'll pay for all of it?

Reptile rescues usually end up with a large number of animals they can't adopt out, either because the people who DO like/want them already have been given animals, or they don't have the facilities or permits or money to properly keep them.

If you take in ball pythons for instance, you'll need ot have a quarentine, and also a holding area to house XX ball pythons. The quarentine time starts ANYTIME a new animal has been brought in. So if you have 10 ball pythons that have been in quarentine for 5 months... and you want to take another one, you'll have 11 ball pythons in there for another 6 months.(or however long your quarentine is).

How many mice can you produce per week? Can you expand that if you grow? Can you breed and raise your own mealworms/crickets/feeders? How much bedding will you need per week? What will you do with the soiled bedding? What about an exotic vet? How will you cover vets bills, and at what point would you euthanize rather than treat?

Just trying to think of all the concerns to address before you suddenly get in over your head. All the little details that a lot of people here have addressed with their personal collectiosn would be relevant to your proposed rescue. Best of luck.

---

I cannot take in any more than 7-8 snakes at a time right now my house is only so large so any of this stuff your reading will not happen for another 2-3 years if i do this on my own. So all of these concerns about getting in over my head don't worry about it. Guess i should have mentioned that in the original post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

The thing that has always worried me about reptile resues is the quarantine issue.

I am in no way trying to bust your chops but do you have 7 different rooms you can QT animals in or did you use one room with all the animals in it and reset the QT clock with each one? and, since you have already re-homed three animals, how long did you QT them before deciding they were clean?

The idea of lots of different animals coming together from lots of different sources, being held in the same location then disseminated to lots of different end point collections is a vertiable nightmare if something went wrong. :(

Reptile resues also tend to get a disproportionately large number of animals with problems which can get very expensive given the price charged by qualified vets.

Have you had many problems with people trying to surrender the newly illegal animals? How does that sit legally?


dr del

---

I have had one call about a Burmese python so far and i directed them to a permitted reptile business that could take it in. Im not going to spend 100 bucks on a permit that will be useless as of July 1st. Plus ive had a Burmese 2 years ago and then the permit law came out so me being a law abiding citizen didn't have the money to buy the permit and microchip so i gave her to my buddy who had the permits because he worked for FWC plus he has a retic too.

Please be careful calling yourself an animal rescue. I am sure your state has strict guidelines for these businesses. Even if you aren't a real rescue group, just calling yourself that could bring the wrath of big brother down on you. Florida is probably not a good place to use these words right now with the new laws going into effect.

If you really want to do this, contact a lawyer, one that is somewhat connected to someone in the state government. They will tell you to set up a corporation or at the very least a LLC. You will need commercial zoned property too. Please don't try to do this from your house. A zoning violation will not be good for you or your cause.

Imagine the local 6 pm news. A family located on 555 Main St. Anywhere Florida had a visit from police and animal welfare agents today. 20 snakes and 10 lizards were confiscated due to neighborhood complants. The animals were kept in Tupperware containers and the animals were living in unhealthy condition. There was excrement in many of the tupperware containers and the house was full of rats and mice.

See how your goodwill could come back to backfire and grab you in the butt.

Whatever you do, do it properly, according to local and state laws.

Jim Smith

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Please be careful calling yourself an animal rescue. I am sure your state has strict guidelines for these businesses. Even if you aren't a real rescue group, just calling yourself that could bring the wrath of big brother down on you. Florida is probably not a good place to use these words right now with the new laws going into effect.

If you really want to do this, contact a lawyer, one that is somewhat connected to someone in the state government. They will tell you to set up a corporation or at the very least a LLC. You will need commercial zoned property too. Please don't try to do this from your house. A zoning violation will not be good for you or your cause.

Imagine the local 6 pm news. A family located on 555 Main St. Anywhere Florida had a visit from police and animal welfare agents today. 20 snakes and 10 lizards were confiscated due to neighborhood complants. The animals were kept in Tupperware containers and the animals were living in unhealthy condition. There was excrement in many of the tupperware containers and the house was full of rats and mice.

See how your goodwill could come back to backfire and grab you in the butt.

Whatever you do, do it properly, according to local and state laws.

Jim Smith

---

Yet again, i am not calling myself an animal rescue nor am i starting one at the moment. This is an idea i started taking in unwanted reptiles and i am at my limit for now. SO IN NOW WAY AM I CONSIDERING MYSELF AN ANIMAL RESCUE SO NO I DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE LAW. THIS IS AN IDEA FOR THE FUTURE NOT NOW! I AM DOING IT SMALL SCALE VERY VERY SMALL SCALE. I AM NOT TAKING IN THE REPTILES OF CONCERN I NEED NOT WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING. I HAVE A TOTAL OF 5 SNAKES ALL BALL PYTHONS I AM NOT TAKING ANYMORE AT THE MOMENT. SO RELAX WITH THE COMMENTS ABOUT ETC ETC ETC ITS NO CONCERN THESE ARE FUTURE PLANS....

OK i should have said this in my original post. I AM NOT STARTING THIS BY MYSELF OR ANYTIME SOON. This is an IDEA its that simple, i would never jump into something this huge and expect to have everything i need. This will not happen even if i had enough money to do so for at a minimum of 3-4 years fro planning etc. I know i need a large building with many many rooms for breeding feeders, for quarantine, housing for all kinds of reptiles, etc etc. Yes no doubt i am doing it small scale still but i only have 5 animals at a time if i get more they are adopted out the same day or given to my friends at Strictly Reptiles Inc. So please don't start spamming me with oh you need permits or don't do this don't do that, do you have this or that. I KNOW WHAT IT WILL TAKE thank you for your concern but i know what i will need. It isn't gonna happen over night, so sorry if i made it seem like i was just jumping into this right away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austin236

I live in South Florida and i am trying to start a reptile sanctuary so people can bring in there snakes or lizards or amphibians they do not want anymore, so they don't feel the need to go let them go in a park or in the everglades etc. I believe if this was around before the reptile bans, we wouldn't have a problem with burms etc in our ecosystem and we wouldn't have these new laws. So i have been starting slowly by posting adds on Craigslist.com for unwanted reptiles. Guess what?? Ive received 5 ball pythons a savannah monitor and a beardy in the last month and a half, seems pretty darn effective to me. Now turn that into something big and get a building to house a lot of reptiles and advertise on TV and that will solve our reptile problem. So the more people willing to help maybe we all can make this a reality.

---

What reptile problem are we solving?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skiploder

what reptile problem are we solving?

---

its not solving the entire problem as a whole, its going to help none the less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austin236

its not solving the entire problem as a whole, its going to help none the less.

---

What problem are you helping to solve?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austin236

OK i should have said this in my original post. I AM NOT STARTING THIS BY MYSELF OR ANYTIME SOON. This is an IDEA its that simple, i would never jump into something this huge and expect to have everything i need. This will not happen even if i had enough money to do so for at a minimum of 3-4 years fro planning etc. I know i need a large building with many many rooms for breeding feeders, for quarantine, housing for all kinds of reptiles, etc etc. Yes no doubt i am doing it small scale still but i only have 5 animals at a time if i get more they are adopted out the same day or given to my friends at Strictly Reptiles Inc. So please don't start spamming me with oh you need permits or don't do this don't do that, do you have this or that. I KNOW WHAT IT WILL TAKE thank you for your concern but i know what i will need. It isn't gonna happen over night, so sorry if i made it seem like i was just jumping into this right away.

---

I'm a little confused. In your original post you said this is what you want to do, but here you say that's not what you want to do. which is it?

What was the purpose of your post if you don't really want to start a reptile sanctuary?

Still confused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austin236

I live in South Florida and i am trying to start a reptile sanctuary so people can bring in there snakes or lizards or amphibians they do not want anymore, so they don't feel the need to go let them go in a park or in the everglades etc. I believe if this was around before the reptile bans, we wouldn't have a problem with burms etc in our ecosystem and we wouldn't have these new laws. So i have been starting slowly by posting adds on Craigslist.com for unwanted reptiles. Guess what?? Ive received 5 ball pythons a savannah monitor and a beardy in the last month and a half, seems pretty darn effective to me. Now turn that into something big and get a building to house a lot of reptiles and advertise on TV and that will solve our reptile problem. So the more people willing to help maybe we all can make this a reality.

---

I know I shouldn't pick on your posts, but you sounded like you were ready to start this sanctuary, now you think 3-4 years is what's needed.

I guess I shouldn't have told you what you already knew, but you sounded like some pie in the sky idealist and I just wanted you to see the reality of trying something like this.

Good luck in 3-4 years!
Jim Smith

Got another question for ya. If you're not doing this now, why is your location listed as Reptile Haven Florida? Sounds like you got a little dose of reality and you're trying to downplay my advise.

Either way, good luck trying to save your little part of the world!
Jim Smith

Whatever i don't need to explain myself im leaving this post alone no sense trying to explain, like i said i worded my original post wrong, that's my fault i should have put some more thought into it and typed it differently. And why the hell would my location being Reptile Haven Florida have anything to do with what i posted hmm?? Florida has a huge variety of reptiles in the wild does that not make sense to you or something?? is it a problem that, thats what i put?? it has nothing to do with anything ive posted.

I still don't know what problem you are trying to solve.

Starting a reptile rescue is a great idea but it does take a lot of planning and a lot of work to get it off the ground and at a place you are actually doing some good. I'd say in the next 3-4 years, find yourself a building, go through all the legal mumbo-jumbo, begin saving up money, and ask around about possible volunteers (you won't be able to do this on your own.) Get a website planned as well.

I would love to do reptile rescue as well. I see tons of ads on CL every day with people trying to sell their snakes and lizards off because they are moving or just don't want them anymore. I've taken in (technically) 3 snakes already, and two are going to my friend.

Also, make a plan for yourself. What kinds of animals will you be set up to take in? Me, for instance, I can't take in the big snakes because I simply don't have the space or the ability to care for and handle such a large snake. Take these things into consideration. I'd get a building with plenty of rooms so you can separate your rescues. It would really suck if all you had was one room and you had X amount of snakes ready to come out of QT but you had to bring in a new snake and reset the whole clock.

Good luck to you! I hope you can make this reality in the near future. :)

"So please don't start spamming me with oh you need permits or don't do this don't do that, do you have this or that."

Sooo... what was the purpose of posting your intention to start a reptile sanctuary? Did you think everyone would leap up and down and sing praises to you? Everyone here is great on the idea of a properly run reptile sanctuary. Everyone was posting advice and things you might not think of when opening a sanctuary.

Right now it sounds like you adopted a few animals and have been pushing the rest off on a business run by someone you know. It's great to adopt animals that need a home, but putting out that you're a rescue and a reptile sanctuary then turning around and saying no no, you'll be looking into it in 3-4 years.. it's just not really kosher, especially not in florida, where all the permits and restrictions are going into place.

Then in your first post, you're talking about how the burmese problem is from owners releasing pets, which we all know isn't the case. You should be well informed BEFORE you start posting how you'll be a reptile rescue and putting yourself forward AS one.

We want the same thing, reptiles to have somewhere to go safe to care for them properly. Don't get all out-of-sorts just because people offer advice and ask questions. It's because THEY care about reptiles too. Surprise.. this is a site for reptile lovers.

hey Austin236 i think it be a great ideal and such if you can swing it. I know with the few rescues I done personally it gets hard at times. specially if you post about willing to take in such snakes and all on open places like craigslist and such.. cause there are those out there that are jealous, evil , or what ever they want to think it is they call it . I had people accuse me of just trying to get breeding stock, free snakes, and such (just recently) by doing so. I never orginally planned to breed, or do the taking in of snakes( heck I never planned to own more than 5-8 )when I started to actually look at snakes. I have considerd stop taking in any more snakes due to these people rude remarks and such.

I will be limiting my collection and thinning it down a lot over the next year I believe until I can actually own a place to have everythign I need ( mainly room to do it right) it sucks that it may never happen since being on disablity mean I will never really have money or the ablity to do it full time on my own.

I need to look into getting the proper class,training and such and see what I can do in getting properly set up to do rescues, and such snce the SPCA in DE does not handle reptile related calls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

"So please don't start spamming me with oh you need permits or don't do this don't do that, do you have this or that."

Sooo... what was the purpose of posting your intention to start a reptile sanctuary? Did you think everyone would leap up and down and sing praises to you? Everyone here is great on the idea of a properly run reptile sanctuary. Everyone was posting advice and things you might not think of when opening a sanctuary.

Right now it sounds like you adopted a few animals and have been pushing the rest off on a business run by someone you know. It's great to adopt animals that need a home, but putting out that you're a rescue and a reptile sanctuary then turning around and saying no no, you'll be looking into it in 3-4 years.. it's just not really kosher, especially not in florida, where all the permits and restrictions are going into place.

Then in your first post, you're talking about how the burmese problem is from owners releasing pets, which we all know isn't the case. You should be well informed BEFORE you start posting how you'll be a reptile rescue and putting yourself forward AS one.

We want the same thing, reptiles to have somewhere to go safe to care for them properly. Don't get all out-of-sorts just because people offer advice and ask questions. It's because THEY care about reptiles too. Surprise.. this is a site for reptile lovers.

---

Yet AGAIN i said i am sorry i didn't put thought into my first posting i kinda threw it together and posted it without all the proper info i should have posted. Yes the pet owner thing is part of the problem not 100% ok. So stop giving me lip and we can continue this thread in a nice nonaggressive fashion. Ok and maybe if people replied in a nice manner i wouldn't feel like i had to defend myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mechnut450

hey Austin236 i think it be a great ideal and such if you can swing it. I know with the few rescues I done personally it gets hard at times. specially if you post about willing to take in such snakes and all on open places like craigslist and such.. cause there are those out there that are jealous, evil , or what ever they want to think it is they call it . I had people accuse me of just trying to get breeding stock, free snakes, and such (just recently) by doing so. I never orginally planned to breed, or do the taking in of snakes( heck I never planned to own more than 5-8 )when I started to actually look at snakes. I have considerd stop taking in any more snakes due to these people rude remarks and such.

I will be limiting my collection and thinning it down a lot over the next year I believe until I can actually own a place to have everythign I need ( mainly room to do it right) it sucks that it may never happen since being on disablity mean I will never really have money or the ablity to do it full time on my own.

I need to look into getting the proper class,training and such and see what I can do in getting properly set up to do rescues, and such snce the SPCA in DE does not handle reptile related calls.

---

Yeah i have had my fare share of rude calls, and people asking me if i will take Burmese Pythons etc and i politely say no and direct them to a place that will take in there pet that i can't legally own. But i haven't had any people accusing me of wanting free snakes although i thought that might be a problem when i first decided to do this. I limited myself to 6 snakes total i have 4 at the moment i haven't had any calls as of recently but thats because my post expired and i don't feel i need more reptiles to care for right now until i move in the next 2 months. Then i will have 2 acres of back yard so ill be building a big shed for all my snakes, but im going to hold off on the rescues for now. Thank you for your nice comment:D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austin236

Yet AGAIN i said i am sorry i didn't put thought into my first posting i kinda threw it together and posted it without all the proper info i should have posted. Yes the pet owner thing is part of the problem not 100% ok. So stop giving me lip and we can continue this thread in a nice nonaggressive fashion. Ok and maybe if people replied in a nice manner i wouldn't feel like i had to defend myself.

---

No one is being agressive towards you or your posts. You post something, are given a dose of reality and you change everything or don't answer a pretty important question to you.

You are the one that posted your intentions. Some here are asking you to explain what needs you think you will be filling, others, including me, wanted to tell you there's a lot more to setting up a rescue other than buying reptiles from Craigslist.

You need to decide whether you want to take our advice/concerns to heart and learn from them or continue to act like a little kid and keep up the "Stop Picking On Me" posts.

What needs are you trying to fulfill by setting up a rescue? Are there that many unwanted reptiles in your area? Are you willing/able to take in all of these unwanted animals with all of their problems and expenses?

Do you have a really good herp vet that you can count on as well as give you great deals on vet visits?

Again, none of these things are "Picking On You", this is called reallity.

Learn to live with it!
Jim Smith

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austin236

Yet AGAIN i said i am sorry i didn't put thought into my first posting i kinda threw it together and posted it without all the proper info i should have posted. Yes the pet owner thing is part of the problem not 100% ok. So stop giving me lip and we can continue this thread in a nice nonaggressive fashion. Ok and maybe if people replied in a nice manner i wouldn't feel like i had to defend myself.

---

There's no aggression in the thread except from you. Everyone wanted to HELP you, by pointing out things you'll have to deal with or know. You're the one squalling that people are attacking you.

YOU want to be a rescue, so do you think that you ALREADY know everything you'll need to know? You absolutley need no advice from experianced herp keepers? No help from the community? Really? I wasn't aware that you were so experianced that you already knew everything about herps there is to know. I'll stop trying to help you.

I've lived in Florida for 39 years. I've been dealing with F&W since before I was in my teens. I've been researching the laws and the care and the procedures for reptiles for several years now, and somehow I haven't even begun to learn everything about herps. Must be nice to know so much that you don't need any help or advice from anyone.

Best wishes in whatever plans you end up trying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austin236

Yes the pet owner thing is part of the problem not 100% ok. S

---

if the owner release is part of the problem its an extremely small percentage. I'm talking less than 5%. Which doesn't constitute much of a problem does it?

The burms are in florida because of the hurricane that destroyed the import facilities down there in 94 or 96 (I believe it was hurricane Andrew). Almost all the burms caught are wild type animals. If these were owner releases we'd be finding morphs and designer morphs.

People are responding very politely to your thread. You seem to be the one getting your knickers in a twist. No one here is a mind reader, if you don't type out your plan and logistics, no one here is going to know them. But because this is a large concentration of people who LOVE reptiles, we want to make sure the right things are done which is where all the talk of permitting and money and allocation and zoning come in.

I'd recommend posting with an apology, and then going over your plan in detail that way you can get the advice you came here for.

Hi,

This thread is mainly just going round in circles I think.

We have given all the info needed about things that need considering and the OP has stated he mis-spoke in the first post and will not be jumping into this.

At this point I think it is probably best just to lock the thread. :gj:


dr del