please help - i have 2 possibly related problems going on

I recently adopted a 2.5ft female ball python (a few weeks ago). When I got her she was in mid-shed. I helped her along a bit with the shed by peeling the stuff that was on its way off (it was in lots of pieces - not a neat shed), and also spraying her with water over a couple of weeks. A few days after she was mostly clear of shed skin (this was 3 days ago), I noticed there were lots of little tiny white/grey/yellowish/tan bugs in the substrate (it was small gravel - looked like something between kitty litter and course sand), crawling all over the place but NOT on the snake. I'm fairly positive they are not snake mites because they arent on her body, and I'm also pretty confident that they are harmless. I am just wondering why I keep finding them after cleaning the tank thoroughly and changing the substrate to zilla brand green roll up mats. They came back after cleaning #1; within 2 days there were dozens (as opposed to probably hundreds or more prior to cleaning). Then I cleaned a 2nd time after 2 days, which was yesterday. I just saw one bug in there before i left for work today.. Now I'm pissed. Any suggestions? Or is this just something I have to deal with?

Second part that relates to above - after cleaning of the tank #1, I noticed that the next day the snakes eyes were foggy white - How could this be? She just finished shedding! I started to panic, thinking that the windex i used to clean the tank somehow damaged her eyes (yes I took her out and cleaned each and every item in there with hot water) .. I know I vented the tank for a while and even washed with plain water after using the windex... So i dont think i did it. She also seems to be a little more "tight" - meaning she is flexing her muscles more, pressing herself against me and seems a little more tensed up/clenched up/rigid than usual. Is this normal when shedding? Its been a while since I had a snake, and when I was a boy I only had garters so I dont recall. I also worried that the bugs could have brought this on, but they seem harmless. I also noticed her body is getting a little faded in color, making me think she is about to go into a shed again. Seems strange - any help on this? I'm so worried about her.

I'm no vet, but my guess is that the snake does have mites. That would explain why they keep coming back, the bad shed, and possibly her shedding again. I would treat her like she does have mites, better safe than sorry anyways, and see if that helps. Also, and this is an opinion, that green carpet stuff sucks. It's hard to clean, doesn't help with humidity (which also leads to bad sheds), and is overall just not great. Definitely switch to newspaper or aspen bedding. Speaking of humidity, what is yours at and how are you reading it? Good luck with your new snakes! :)

I dont have a gauge for humidity yet, but I am in NY and, in general, our humidity levels are pretty high. Add summer temps to that and I should be okay (I think). My home also gets pretty muggy and warm inside during the day since it is all shut up while my wife and I are at work. I'll be running out to get some mite stuff today after work, so I will pick up a humidity gauge as well. What level should I be at? Also - any preferred methods that you recommend for treating the mite problem? Thanks so much for your help.

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Originally Posted by vintod

I dont have a gauge for humidity yet, but I am in NY and, in general, our humidity levels are pretty high. Add summer temps to that and I should be okay (I think). My home also gets pretty muggy and warm inside during the day since it is all shut up while my wife and I are at work. I'll be running out to get some mite stuff today after work, so I will pick up a humidity gauge as well. What level should I be at? Also - any preferred methods that you recommend for treating the mite problem? Thanks so much for your help.

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50-60% is usually good, and 60-70% when they shed. P.A.M. (Provent-a-mite, not the cooking spray :P) Is generally what's used to get rid of mites, and can be bought easily online. Make sure you don't get one of those analog thermometers/hygrometers the pet store's sell, they don't work at all and can some times be off by more than 10 degrees or %. Go to Walmart or a Home Depot and look for an Acu-rite Thermometer, it's cheaper and much more reliable. And here's a link to the Caresheet if you haven't seen it yet :)

I would say get provent a mite but I am fairly certain it is illegal in New York. There are a few other products you could use as an equivalent, one being Nix which can be found at any drug store.

any mites "harmless" or not are not good to have in the cage. Change your substrate to paper towels so you can see them easily. This also gives them less places to hide. I suspect that the stress from the mite infestation is causing the consecutive sheds.

Humidity should be 50% all the time. You can bump it up to around 60% during sheds. Some do, some don't and still have good sheds. I do, because I think it makes it easier for the snake to shed.

PAM (prevent a mite) for the mites. It works wonders. Depending on when her last shed was, she could just be shedding again. They all shed at their own rates. Good luck, and welcome!

thanks guys i really appreciate it. if my store doesnt have PAM should I use NIX from a drug store? (isnt that for human head lice?) - if not, any other suggestions? I saw "mite off" or "mite away" or something in a small bottle at petco. junk?

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Originally Posted by vintod

thanks guys i really appreciate it. if my store doesnt have PAM should I use NIX from a drug store? (isnt that for human head lice?) - if not, any other suggestions? I saw "mite off" or "mite away" or something in a small bottle at petco. junk?

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PAM will not be sold in any local stores. Only online. It is illegal in new york so you won't be able to get it there.

NIX has the same active ingredient as PAM so it will do the same thing.

Do not spray it directly on the snake. Remove the snake and the water bowl. Spray everything else in the tank. You don't need to soak it. Just an even, uniform coating. Wait for it to dry and no fumes. Replace snake and water bowl. It will also help to spray some on a paper towel and wipe it on all of the inside and outside lips and edges of the tank. This will keep them from getting out or in. Good luck...

Make sure that you treat the upper cracks and crevices of your enclosure. This is where they typically lay their eggs and often a part over looked. Also if you have any wood bake your wood for about an hour at 350. Also you can treat your water bowls and hides and then put them in the dishwasher on a high temp.

Okay - so PAM is a spray based treatment? Since I want to do this ASAP, I may have to pick up a different product directly from the pet store. does anyone know if zoo med's "mite off" is a good substitute? or perhaps natural chemistry brand reptile spray?

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Originally Posted by vintod

Okay - so PAM is a spray based treatment? Since I want to do this ASAP, I may have to pick up a different product directly from the pet store. does anyone know if zoo med's "mite off" is a good substitute? or perhaps natural chemistry brand reptile spray?

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That stuff won't keep the mites gone for good. They will just keep reappearing every few weeks.

The NIX spray is sold at almost every drug store.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

Humidity should be 50% all the time. You can bump it up to around 60% during sheds. Some do, some don't and still have good sheds. I do, because I think it makes it easier for the snake to shed.

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Actually, humidity should be 60% all the time, and can be bumped up to 70 to 80% during sheds. Remember, bad sheds are caused by low-level dehydration. Not something you want to subject the animal to when it's NOT in shed, either. If the snake cannot shed normally at the humidity your generally keep your enclosure at, then your humidity is too low. It's fine to raise humidity during a shed to make things go even smoother and make the snake more comfortable, but they should be ABLE to have a normal shed at the humidity you keep them at all the time.

Order PAM online. Remember that it is for spraying the ENCLOSURE, not the snake. Do not let the snake come in contact with it until it is COMPLETELY dry.

If PAM is illegal in New York, you should just use the NIX spray you can buy at any drug store.

It is important NOT to treat the snake, just the enclosure. Spray or wipe down all surfaces of the enclosure with the NIX, allow 1 hour for it to dry, then replace the snake and water bowl and substrate. It really would be best to use newspaper or paper towels until the mites are gone.

The reason you don't need to treat the snake itself is that mites will leave the snake to hide and/or lay eggs and contact the NIX and die.

It is possible your snake could be getting ready to shed again, stress and poor health will sometimes cause rapid shed cycles, as will injuries.

Gale

well.. I read some of this too late. first, I came home to only see a few bugs in the tank (barely visible, small white color) NOT on the snake. So my cleaning from the day earlier did an okay job.. but not godo enough for my psychotically anal personality. I sprayed a good layer of Mite Off around the enclosure and let it dry while I ate dinner.

Afterwards, I mixed one small bottle of NIX with a gallon of water and pretty much soaked everything that was in the tank, including the snake, who hung out in a rubbermaid container while I cleaned. I hope this isn't bad, but I read that as long as it is diluted it won't hurt the snake. I dried the tank and then lined it with paper towels. i put her a hide back in (little rock bridge), and also an empty water dish (so she doesnt wash off the nix "shampoo"). I let he slither through a paper towel to dry off as well before putting her back in. I put about a dozen golf ball sized, smooth sterilized rocks down so she doesnt get under the paper towels and in direct contact with the under-tank heat source that I have under her hide.

Everything else (fake plant, zilla green liner, wood items, more rocks, light fixture) is drying on towels nearby after extremely liberal soaking with the nix mixture and mite off - and I wont set them back up for 3 days. I plan to use a NEW zilla green mat and leave the one I soaked down in the basement to dry for a while. I even put one of the smaller wood items into my oven for a half hour to dry it out and "cook" it. Hopefully all this will do the trick without causing any harm. Thanks for all your help and I will keep you posted on the results.

Please let me know if theres anythign drastically terrible that I did her, and how to remedy it. I really appreciate everything.

it looks like my humidity is at about 70-75. right now i just have a cheapy but i have it on top of the snake tank, on the screen. i figured the humidity is lower there so i dont get false positives on the humidity levels if i stuck it to the glass inside the tank. looks like i am safe even if its off by a few %s

Idk about those treatments, but how will measuring the humidity inside the tank, where the snake is, lead to a false reading?

I've read that sticking a cheap humidity gauge to the wall of a tank gives false readings that show humidity as higher than it actually is. I figured that, by leaving it on top of the tank screen, where the humidity is slightly lower than inside the tank, I would be playing it safe and getting a more accurate reading of what is is likely to be inside the tank. not sure if that logic will work but its better to be mroe humid than less humid, right? So if my humidity is at the right levels ABOVE the tank on a cheap gauge, then it should be fine inside the tank where it is definitely more humid. other thing I can do is just put the damn gauge inside the tank and subtract 10 from whatever it says and play it safe that way. haha

I can't say from experience here, but it's been said over and over in the short time that I've been around that the dial gauges aren't worth a damn for measuring anything. I suppose that strategy would work if you knew that it was reading 10% higher than what the humidity actually was, but I don't think anyone can say about any particular gauge that it's any degree accurate one way or the other. The accuracy may even vary depending on what the humidity is, too. At 10%, it might be right on, but at 70%, it could be so much off high or low.

If that's too long and you didn't read it, the best thing to do is probably to get something digital that's not branded for reptiles (overpriced), rather than trying to guess what this gauge thinks it's doing.:rolleye2:

Just an update:

I returned from my trip to find NO bugs in the tank, and the snake had a nice, even, complete shed in one piece. Excellent. She looks good but is still being a little bit "muscley" when I handle her (when she isnt just chilling in a loose ball).

Thanks for all the help. Going to try feeding her this week - this is the first time I am feeding her since I adopted her. The previous owner said she gets 2 small fuzzies once a month, but I plan to feed her a little more frequently because that didn't sound right to me.

Any thoughts on feeding frequency?

Safest bet is feed 10-15% of her body weight every 7 days.

If she's really thin, you can try every 5 days for a little while.

If you don't know her weight, you can get a cheap digital gram scale from Wal-Mart, so you know. For example, if she weighs 200 grams, you'd offer her a 20-25 gram prey item every 7 days.

Gale

Thanks.

She also pooped: 2-3 small brown turds and a white turd. I took out the paper towels that lined the bottom, did a quick wipe down with sprayed water, freshened up her water bowl, and put down a fresh Zilla green mat and replaced some of the stuff I had removed from the tank when I did the Nix treatment a few days ago.

Hopefully the bugs won't return, and hopefully she'll be ready to eat in a couple of days.

I have a great pic of her yawning that I have to post here one of these days

well i sure did come in a little late on this issue with the bugs, hope they stay away, any more problems that come up dont hesitate to ask, many good answers around here

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

PAM will not be sold in any local stores. Only online. It is illegal in new york so you won't be able to get it there.

NIX has the same active ingredient as PAM so it will do the same thing.

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You can also go to this online place I go to, whch I believe is based out of new york. or DR. Foster`s.com and they do sell organic mite off. It`s called "Natural chemistry" reptile spray. you will get it within a couple of days. they are very good about it. (If you haven`t solved this problem already) I suggest you keep this on hand for , heavens forbid, if this happens again. I happened to bring home a rat for my pastel redtail and as soon as she swallowed it, I noticed the bugs crawling around. You can also get them in comercial substrate. I NEVER use these. I always us like indoor/outdoor carpet and/or reptile carpet. I worry about humidity seperately. Yes, it is more work to keep humidity up there. [I] use cool mist humidifyers in the snake room to help with that along with frequent misting. I hope this was helpful.

thanks. I actually saw the natural chemistry products in the store. I will pick up a bottle for back up. I still have lots of NIX solution leftover too.

I am planning to get some mice today or tomorrow for her. I have a question about this, now that you bring up bugs on the rats...

Is it safe to soak the mice in NIX solution, wait a day or two, and then feed them to the snake? I want to make sure there are no mites or parasites on the mice when I feed them to her. Apparently when I adopted her, she had just eaten the day before.. so I am wondering if the mites got on her from the feeding. It very well could have been that the owners just were terrible keepers and allowed th emites in prior to the feeding, but I would think the feeding would have been a struggle if the snake had mites and was in the middle of a bad shed.

* maybe i better start that as a new post.

Are you suggesting soaking the snakes meal in a toxic solution and then feeding it to the snake? Do you want to kill your snake??

If you get your mice and rats from a reliable source (ie: not the sewer) then it should not have parasites or mites or anything. Even if the mouse had mites, they would not harm your snake because they only attack warm blooded animals. And if they got in the enclosure the nix would kill them (one treatment should last about 30 days)