Help with breeding..cheap first project?

So I am preparing to buy a pair of ball pythons of different morphs so that I can breed them in a few years and maybe make a buck or two, and just to see what the pair yields.

I have a couple questions...what would be the coolest, cheapest two morphs to cross? I am thinking spider and something else.

I am also a little confused about the genetics of it all. If I cross two spiders, won't I get all normals? OR how does it work?

Thanks alot.

Would really appreciate some advice on this...thank you.

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Originally Posted by benk8805

So I am preparing to buy a pair of ball pythons of different morphs so that I can breed them in a few years and maybe make a buck or two, and just to see what the pair yields.

I have a couple questions...what would be the coolest, cheapest two morphs to cross? I am thinking spider and something else.

I am also a little confused about the genetics of it all. If I cross two spiders, won't I get all normals? OR how does it work?

Thanks alot.

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I think you should read and re-read these threads:

BP Caresheet
http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/...warticle&id=59

BP FAQ
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=31102

A lesson in basic genetics
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52847

Breeding Ball Pythons - Some things to consider...
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=49580

BP Breeding FAQ
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=30890


I suggest obtaining a BP, raise it, and then think about breeding in a few years.

As for the two cheapest morphs to cross, you could get a pastel and spider and make bumblebees. If you are thinking or getting two spiders and breeding them I am pretty sure that you will get spiders and normals, not all normals.

P.S. If you don't want to deal with a spider's wobble problem, you could get a woma, but they are more expensive than a spider. I also don't know what morphs you really like, so it is a little hard to help. Also, if you wanted, you could get hets for something like a piebald or albino, if that is more of the route you wanted to take.

What do you mean by "wobble" problem? Thanks.

Also, I have a year old normal that I will probably just keep because it was my first one. Not a whole lot I can do to make a desirable morph from a normal is there?

Most Spiders have a head wobble. It's when there head moves, shakes, and does some really weird movement without the snake meaning to do it. It's like Caramels with the kinks.

Actually, you could make hets with normals. A het is, for example, if you breed a albino with a normal, and the babies are normal.s That means the babies carry the gene for albino, so it is het for albino.

And you can still breed a wonderful morph with a normal and get some pretty cool babies. Maybe you should do a little more research on morphs, genetics, and breeding?

Here is a video of a Spider with a Wobble:
YouTube - Female Spider Ball Python With Wobbles

Yea I knew I could make hets with the normal, but I dont really want to wait a whole nother generation...

Do the bumblebees have the head wobble as well?

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Originally Posted by benk8805

Yea I knew I could make hets with the normal, but I dont really want to wait a whole nother generation...

Do the bumblebees have the head wobble as well?

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You don't have to wait a whole generation. Hets are a lot cheaper than an actual morph, and you still have a pretty good chance of getting that morph. And hets can still be sold for more, as well. They will just be proved out later on.

I've never seen a BumbleBee with Wobble, but that doesn't make it impossible.

Any co-dom morph can be bred to a normal and produce that morph. An example is breeding a mojaveXnormal. In theory the clutch would yield 50/50. In my opinion, money shouldn't be one of the first things on your mind when breeding. 99% of people that breed do it because they love the specie/morph and truly want to experience the breeding process, from copulation to hatching.

You should choose the morphs you love, not the ones you can make a buck off of. And by the time you have some hatchlings to sell, prices will have more than likely drastically dropped.

As far as the genetics, you need to read the basic genetic guide and become familiar with the dominant/co-dom/recessive genes. Spiders are co-dom so a spider to spider cross will yield all spiders.

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Originally Posted by redstormlax12

Any co-dom morph can be bred to a normal and produce that morph. An example is breeding a mojaveXnormal. In theory the clutch would yield 50/50. In my opinion, money shouldn't be one of the first things on your mind when breeding. 99% of people that breed do it because they love the specie/morph and truly want to experience the breeding process, from copulation to hatching.

You should choose the morphs you love, not the ones you can make a buck off of. And by the time you have some hatchlings to sell, prices will have more than likely drastically dropped.

As far as the genetics, you need to read the basic genetic guide and become familiar with the dominant/co-dom/recessive genes. Spiders are co-dom so a spider to spider cross will yield all spiders.

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I agree, I forgot to add that :P You shouldn't breed for money, breed for the love of the animal, species, and morph. Making a buck off of something isn't good.

Well I guess I kindof misspoke. It is more of being a poor college student and trying to get the morph I desire on somewhat of a budget.

After I looked at some really bad cases of the head wobble, I think I may change my mind a bit haha.

One more question...what could a cross between a pastel and a mojave yield?

Don't forget though. The odds are PER EGG. So in theory it will give you fifty percent normals fifty percent morphs. In reality each egg has a 50% chance of being a morph.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redstormlax12

Any co-dom morph can be bred to a normal and produce that morph. An example is breeding a mojaveXnormal. In theory the clutch would yield 50/50. In my opinion, money shouldn't be one of the first things on your mind when breeding. 99% of people that breed do it because they love the specie/morph and truly want to experience the breeding process, from copulation to hatching.

You should choose the morphs you love, not the ones you can make a buck off of. And by the time you have some hatchlings to sell, prices will have more than likely drastically dropped.

As far as the genetics, you need to read the basic genetic guide and become familiar with the dominant/co-dom/recessive genes. Spiders are co-dom so a spider to spider cross will yield all spiders.

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one thing, you don't want to breed spider to spider. Since there is no super form, plus the so called fatal gene. you don't gain anything from spider to spider than breeding spider to normal.

plus spider to spider doesn't throw all spiders.

if you're going to get into breeding. buy your female first. they take more time to reach breeding size than the male. why have a male sitting around while the female gets to size. if you wait the male will be cheaper by time the female gets close to size. In the meantime while you wait. do alot of research on them, sounds like you need to do this, and a few others who answer this post. when it's time to breed you will know what's going on and have the basic down for breeding. It's not hard to do, if you have a foundation on what's going on. This is the perfect site to do some reading, take notes, before asking questions. Alot of what you're asking will be answer by reading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benk8805

Well I guess I kindof misspoke. It is more of being a poor college student and trying to get the morph I desire on somewhat of a budget.

After I looked at some really bad cases of the head wobble, I think I may change my mind a bit haha.

One more question...what could a cross between a pastel and a mojave yield?

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A mojave to a pastel will yield Pastaves, mojaves, pastels, and normals.

Keep in mind also that if you are a poor college student that starting breeding will be EXPENSIVE. You will need a rack, a thermostat for the rack, an incubator, a thermostat for the incubator, incubator tubs and media, housing for all of the babies and food for all of the snakes.

You have to plan for the worst case scenario in which you cannot sell or re-home any of the babies. It happens sometimes and people can easily get overwhelmed.

I am not trying to tell you not to breed but it seems like you are rather new to ball pythons and I just want to make sure you know what you are getting yourself into :P

Also, which ever snake(s) you buy you will have to raise up to adult breeding weight before you can breed. With females this takes about 2-3 years. Buying adult female morphs is MUCH more expensive then buying hatchlings. So even if you planned on breeding now, it would take you 2-3 years before you would have your first clutch which gives you plenty of time to learn everything you need to know.

Also, since you are really just going for a cool morph that you like, check this page out. Maybe it will give you some ideas:

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ner...ollection.html

Yea I basically asked this question initially because I would be buying hatchlings at the moment since I dont have the budget to get adults and all the equipment.

I want to buy two hatchlings of different morphs and breed them in a few years. By that time I will have the money to get all the neccessary equipment. So my question really is..what fairly cheap hatchlings could I buy that would eventually yield some cool morphs?

I am thinking mojave with something else, so give me some ideas as to what I could breed a mojave with to make somethin really neat. thanks.

If someone could link or direct me to a site where it shows the breakdown of the common morphs and what two morphs yield it, that would be great.

Spider gene is dominant, people. Reference. Spider x Spider yield will depend on whether or not the parents are homo- or heterozygous.

That site is also great for it's morph list. I usually use it or google to check out a morph.

I've heard from tons of people who own spiders that the wobble doesn't affect the snake's quality of life, and that their spiders have the best personalities. The wobble is not a detriment, some people just feel like it is. If you like spiders, I'd say give them a shot. Oh, and bees DO have the wobble, because they're just spiders with a 2nd paintjob on top.

Look in the other ball python forum sections for ideas for pairings. There are some really amazing things done with mojaves.

Hi,

There is still room for quite a lot of debate about that.

Until someone has a proven homozygous spider then we can't be certain it is dominant as far as I understand it. And nobody has, as yet, come forward with a homozygous spider.

What if the homozygous form is different but lethal? Wouldn't that make it co-dominant?

Nothing is ever as simple as we'd hope with these animals. :D


dr del

So no one's ever had a spider that only threw spiders? I haven't heard of this lethal gene; I'm looking it up right now.

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

So no one's ever had a spider that only threw spiders? I haven't heard of this lethal gene; I'm looking it up right now.

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I am sure someone has at some point done a spider to spider and maybe they have gotten all spiders. That still doesn't mean that it is homozygous. You would need to breed the suspected homozygous to a normal and it should produce all spiders (right?)

Hi,

Multiple times in fact to try and rule out amazing clutch odds. :P


dr del

Because there are no super-spiders (and people have tried repeatedly), the only reasonable conclusion is that the spider mutation is co-dominant, and is homozygous lethal, just as the similar-looking woma mutation is. The only difference is that you never get to see the super-spiders leave the egg--they probably die early on in development.

There is no 'lethal gene'--the spider gene itself is lethal when 2 copies are present. If I had to throw out a really big old guess, I would assume that the lethality had something to do with the wobble.

Just as an example, the chondrodysplasia gene in cattle causes short, heavy bones in its heterozygous form, but in its homozygous form causes a severely deformed, limbless, and totally nonviable stillbirth.

A quirk like the 'wobble' can be generally harmless, but if you imagine that whatever caused it has been doubled...that's a different story, and perhaps not nearly so harmless anymore.

I have a suggestion for a 'cheap first breeding project'. Get either a pair of yellowbellies, or a pair of pastels. Then you can be producing supers. :)

There is many inexpensive morphs to start with.

Fire
Pastel
Spider
yellow belly
mojave
lesser
butter
pinstripe
woma
Etc....

Pair any one of these to one of the others for kewl combos
Get what you like the most, since you have to care for and look at it for years to come and if you have a passion for that morph it will make your experience that much greater.

Spiders aren't dominate? lol

Thanks for all the replies guys!

So I am really leaning toward getting a female mojave from the research I have done. They had some at the St. louis reptile show this past sunday, and should have got one. Settled for a beautiful Sinaloan milk however, which I was very happy with.

So basically now all I need to know now is what would be a realy nice snake to breed with a mojave? thanks again.

All I need toknow is the cool morphs that Mojaves can produce. A list or link or even just whatever you know of would be nice. thanks.

good luck


Don't base your projects on price or think you are going to be a huge overnight success. This will cost a lot of money and take up most if not all of your time to be successful at. Note that breeders are a dime a dozen and there is no guarantee you will make any money at all. There is actually a good chance you will lose money.

Caging, feeding, heat, supplies, vet bills all cost money and should be considered. The longer you have a product on a shelve, the more money you will lose. Save a few bucks to build a decent collection and take it from there.

Firstly though, develop a love for the species. This is not a get rich quick gag and this time next year you won't be rolling in dough. Pythons have their own little lives and should not be treated as a means to create a profit by someone who knows nothing about them other than that some morphs are worth more than others. Appreciate them.

My .02

You can combine Mojave with any other morph, so I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for, lol.

Mojave X 2 = Blue-Eyed Leucistic (greyish head)

Pastel X Mojave = Pastave

Not many of them have the cool names.

Yea thanks for the advice...and I do have deep affection for the ball python species. I have gone from thinking that it would be cool to have one, to now absolutely admiring them and wishing I could create a clutch of my own and raise them.

Which is why I want to get a hatchling for a cheaper price now and raise it up until I am ready to breed in 2 or 3 years. Therefore I am asking the simple question of what you all like with Mojaves since I am probably going to just get one of those and go from there.

I just have so many questions because there are so many genetic possibilites out there. I understand the basic genetics of it all, afterall I am a biology student, but I just want somewhere to go(website, someone on here) that can give me the specific morphs that are created.

Hang out in the breeding section to see what people have done with the mojave. Do you know about the Leucistics? I really wanna make Mojave pieds and I can only find 2 people who have them, so it'd be a rare project. They look great; like they've got patches of gold foil rimmed in black on them. Like I posted before, http://www.worldofballpythons.com/ is a great site for their morph list.

The thing about a question like this is that there are over 400 morphs out there. We can't just tell you what will look cool or what to combine a mojave with. That's all about your preference and your creativity and your experimentation.

Seriously, just hang out in the breeding section while you wait for your mojave to grow up. If you get a female hatchling, you have a year to make your decision on what kind of male hatchling to get and they'll both mature about the same time (since males are mature about half the age as females). Use that year to research and brainstorm.