Impactions - Post 'Em Up!

So, while we're tackling oft heard yet never substantiated snake advice, I'd like to poilitely ask for some of you to take the time to address another topic:

Substrate caused impactions.

Now I have heard first hand accounts of impactions in very young snakes (although I have never experienced one in my snakes) but have never heard of nor seen a substantiated case of an adult snake suffering from a substrate-caused impaction.

We have all seen it come up in thread after thread discussing both substrates and the pros and cons of feeding in a separate enclosure, yet the warnings seem to far outpace the actual cases. In fact, I would need a calculator to add up all the warnings regarding ingested substrate and compactions on this site alone, yet could count all of the actual incidences on a closed fist.

My own personal experience is this - I have fed snakes for many moons on a variety of loose subsrates from pine to fir to aspen to coconut noir. I have had snakes roll their prey in shavings and consume a mouthful of wood countless times with no adverse digestion-related effects. The only incident I had was a fur and wood "booger" blocking a genetically narrowed lacrimal duct.

So here's a chance to post your experiences with substrate-caused intestinal impactions. First hand accounts only and if you had an animal that died of an impaction, did you confirm it with an actual necropsy. The one or two cases I heard of in adult snakes were never confirmed in this manner. Without positive confirmation, it don't count.

Over the years I have asked a couple of dedicated herp vets about this subject as it pertains to adult snakes and have had only one of three vets confirm one actual case - and it came with a caveat. It was in an animal that was already suffering from a thickening of the stomach and intestinal lining from a primary disease. All three pretty much confirmed that they are extremely rare if not almost non-existent.

So that begs the question - whay are so many people ready to jump in and warn against something that may be rarer than rare? Let's see those ingested substrate horror stories.

I have not once been warned against impaction in snakes, so I have nothing to add.

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So that begs the question - whay are so many people ready to jump in and warn against something that may be rarer than rare? Let's see those ingested substrate horror stories

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I cant really agree that this is a problem worth bringing up, being that in my five odd years of snake keeping, the only substrate warning I have gotten was to not use Cedor.

Impaction, and problems related to eating a piece of substrate ( Like the ripping of the lining of their digestive track) are totally different things, I would have titled this differently because that to me would seem more like a problem.

What I am saying here is that I agree with you... Impaction has not nor will ever cloud my mind when it comes to choosing a substrate for my snakes.

I've heard this alot... I'm not sure how Beardedragon has never heard it but who knows. The biggest substrate/impaction risk I hear about is keeping reptiles on sand, but I have also heard about aspen, cocoa fibre, even the recycled paper I use as impaction risks. I've never really bought into it; if they can digest bones, a little bit of paper is probably not going to ravage their digestive tract...

Never had a problem personally, but I've only had the BP's for a year. Kingsnake on coconut fibre for... 7 years? 7 or 8... And again, no issues, and she has definately eaten her fair share of it (stuff sticks to a wet mouse like crap on velcro...)

Also never seen a substrate-induced impaction in my 3 years at a major pet store, even with the animals on sand... So...


Edit: Just wanted to thank you, Skiploder, for making these posts. So... Thanks!

I do not have any first hand experience and would believe that if they can digest teeth, jawbones, nails and hair, then fiber should be no issue.

On another forum I use to frequent, there was a thread with pictures of a neonate that swallowed a wood chip which was much wider than itself. On it's way down, it went crooked. The general consensus of the forum was to get to a vet ASAP so it could be surgically removed and if that was not done, the snake would surely die of impaction. Instead of following the forums advice, the owner massaged it so it was going down square. On top of that, he fed the snake.

That member caught all hell for doing that and was told the snake would die.

I think that was the gist of it. In any event, the snake was just fine. I'll see if I can dig up that thread if anyone wants to see it.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

I have not once been warned against impaction in snakes, so I have nothing to add.



I cant really agree that this is a problem worth bringing up, being that in my five odd years of snake keeping, the only substrate warning I have gotten was to not use Cedor.

Impaction, and problems related to eating a piece of substrate ( Like the ripping of the lining of their digestive track) are totally different things, I would have titled this differently because that to me would seem more like a problem.

What I am saying here is that I agree with you... Impaction has not nor will ever cloud my mind when it comes to choosing a substrate for my snakes.

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It can cover both items. Call it being covered under the umbrella of ingesting substrate.

It's a red flag people wave but no one seems to have an issue with it in adult snakes.

So why does it come up?

Here's the thread I talked about above. The member was instructed by another member to massage the bark down.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...ight=impaction

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Originally Posted by jfreels

Here's the thread I talked about above. The member was instructed by another member to massage the bark down.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...ight=impaction

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I've seen reliable reports of impactions in smaller neonates.

I think this is a good link, but I'd love to see some for adults.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...0&postcount=11
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ight=impaction
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...43&postcount=3
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...84&postcount=4
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...28&postcount=6
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...63&postcount=3
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...3&postcount=14
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...22&postcount=2
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...81&postcount=2

These took about 5 minutes to dig up. There are pages worth of inferences spread out over this and every snake site.

Apparently it is an issue - I'm just trying to figure out who's had the issue..........

I stand corrected, Im very surprised that I have yet to stumble across the subject being a member here for so long... My normal deffinition of impaction though is a (normally by a lizard) Build up of substrate over time blocking the digestion track, causeing pressure on the spine and eventually leading to paralization, if they live long enough for that to happen.

Ignore my first post everyone, my bad :oops: My train of thoughts were of that, not just eating one big peice.

Never had this issue. I bred leopard geckos almost a decade ago, and did keep the adults on sand--never had an issue with them, either.

Impaction is where the foreign particulate substance is built up to the point where it is blocking the intestinal tract, and will not move. It is a form of intestinal blockage.

Sand impaction isn't specific just to reptiles, but other animals may, for similarly inexplicable reasons, decide to eat sand as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1482454/

I wouldn't keep leopard geckos on sand today, but some species still require particulate substrates (such as Nephrurus). Some reptiles DO live on sand in the wild, and one would think are unlikely to engage in this self-destructive behavior.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

I stand corrected, Im very surprised that I have yet to stumble across the subject being a member here for so long... My normal deffinition of impaction though is a (normally by a lizard) Build up of substrate over time blocking the digestion track, causeing pressure on the spine and eventually leading to paralization, if they live long enough for that to happen.

Ignore my first post everyone, my bad :oops: My train of thoughts were of that, not just eating one big peice.

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No bad - we all frequent different threads.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

No bad - we all frequent different threads.

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Fed on bedding since the beginning of time. Keep and breed sand boas on sand. Beardies and Leos on sand. Most baby beardies I keep on paper just because it's easier to clean but when I had the store we kept hundreds on sand. I think I verified on one or two that they ate sand and it got stuck. There was always grains of sand in the poop, but no problems for most of them. Never had a problem with a sand boa of any size. Going on generation 5 in sand.

I haven't had a problem with impaction and every single reptile I own is on loose substrate.

With lizards I'm a bit more edgy about, I don't house smaller lizards on a fine, loose substrate. My adult Beardie is housed on sand since she's old enough for me to feel comfortable with her on it. Though when she picks the crickets up with her tongue I don't ever see her swallow any substrate except for a couple pieces.

The Ball pythons, KSB, BCI, & Kingsnakes stay on aspen, Dumeril's & Bloods on cypress.

Heard this many time; never once have I had to deal with this issue when I kept snakes years ago, nor in the past few years since I got back into it. I'm sure in the wild they get mouthfuls of substrate with every meal and do just fine. I have definitely noticed that reptile keepers are pretty over protective (I'm not saying that in a bad way) of their animals, and will hear advice and start spreading it as biblical truth. So my guess is that partially the case here. Maybe a few isolated incidents, and then the advice spread through the community.

I don't believe impaction is a problem in snakes. Their digestive systems are tough enough to handle foreign objects.

I have also never even heard of a snake being impacted from eating substrate. I have had snakes get a nice big mouthful of substrate, swallow it all and be just fine.

I think it is generally more of a problem in Lizards since they eat so many more smaller meals compared to snakes. They have more opportunities to get a mouthful of substrate therefor there is a higher chance of it leading to impaction.

I have no experience with impaction in snakes, but I have rescued leopard geckos that were impacted with sand. This is usually a symptom of other problems though - the primary ones being dehydration and improper temperatures..

I think that we often times underestimate snakes. They aren't dumb. I've had a ball python attempt to eat a mouse that, sticky with saliva, was just about as much aspen shavings as it was mouse. She noticed this very quickly and spit it out. They definitely can handle a good amount of substrate in their intestines, and when it's too much, they can usually take care of themselves.



With lizards impaction is a whole separate thing. Beardies, geckos, and most other insectivores are easily impacted when on any loose substrate (especially calcium sand due to clumping) because they are not made to handle it. Contrary to popular belief, there is really no loose sand in inland Australia; the earth is hard packed and cannot be ingested by lizards.