would you go for this project?

Mojave axanthic pied or
lesser axanthic pied? Wondering?

The lesser pied turned out to be an all white snake didn't it?

Personally, I wouldnt go for a double recessive co-dom, unless it was something I REALLY wanted to try, but this doesn't really interest me.. I've never even seen an axanthic lesser or mojave.

lesser axanthic
http://www.vpi.com/images/2458

mojave axanthic
http://www.vpi.com/brag/axanthic_mojave

going deeper with a pastel axanthic mojave
http://www.vpi.com/images/2464

Personally? I probably wouldn't go for either.

The mojave pied doesn't really "do much" for me. I much prefer the bright pied combos like pastel pieds. The mojo pieds already seem to be fairly desaturated color-wise (at least that's how they always look in photographs), so I don't imagine the axanthic would really make a huge difference anyhow.

The other problem, as was already pointed out, is that that combo is going to be a heckofa lot of work (and take many years) to produce. So, if it turns out kinda disappointing, well -- it would be really disappointing! :P

What I would love to see is a "Holstien" pied -- a solid 50/50 black and white snake. Unfortunately, the super cinny pied didn't quite make that (too much darn white!) so I wonder if you could come close using some of the newer dark morphs, like the sable or the Ghi ... Wouldn't mind seeing a super Ghi pied! :gj:

Both might be cool..the white lesser pied bred by RDR might have been a one off, havnt heard of any other lesser pieds..the axanthic lesser/mojaves are both nice & could produce a nice pied combo :gj:

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Originally Posted by Boa5

lgoing deeper with a pastel axanthic mojave
http://www.vpi.com/images/2464

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I hadn't seen that before! Pretty combo!

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

"Holstien" pied --

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Never heard of it. Ghi bal is pretty cool but its in the 5000 price range. I know it would take awhile just even wondering if someone is already working on that project.

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

Both might be cool..the white lesser pied bred by RDR might have been a one off, havnt heard of any other lesser pieds..the axanthic lesser/mojaves are both nice & could produce a nice pied combo :gj:

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I saw someone on kingsnake selling a few pied lessers. How would you tell though, you know.

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

I hadn't seen that before! Pretty combo!

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I take it your a stand out kind of guy lol no but your right that right there is super duper cool.

I do like the lesser axanthic and the mojave axanthic. I'm not too crazy about the pastave axanthic though.

Seems like there are several new combos using axanthics and they seem to be getting alot of attention.

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Personally? I probably wouldn't go for either.

The mojave pied doesn't really "do much" for me. I much prefer the bright pied combos like pastel pieds. The mojo pieds already seem to be fairly desaturated color-wise (at least that's how they always look in photographs), so I don't imagine the axanthic would really make a huge difference anyhow.

The other problem, as was already pointed out, is that that combo is going to be a heckofa lot of work (and take many years) to produce. So, if it turns out kinda disappointing, well -- it would be really disappointing! :P

What I would love to see is a "Holstien" pied -- a solid 50/50 black and white snake. Unfortunately, the super cinny pied didn't quite make that (too much darn white!) so I wonder if you could come close using some of the newer dark morphs, like the sable or the Ghi ... Wouldn't mind seeing a super Ghi pied! :gj:

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the white on each pied varies, you cant base it off one specific animal

Mojave Axanthic Pied imo. im guessing the Lesser Axanthic Pied is going to be BEL.

WOW.. Axanthic Mojave is my new favorite morph!!

as with lots of others, mojo pied does absolutly nothing for me. personally i think it detracts from both morphs, so i would have to so say no i wouldnt go for it personally either

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

the white on each pied varies, you cant base it off one specific animal

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That's true. Maybe some day someone will hit on a 50/50 super cinny pied; anyone know who else is working on that project still?

I mean, heck, I might even try for it some day ... Once I have a whole bunch of cinnies and pieds lying around :rolleyes:

You know what I find really bizarre is how the "straight up" pied, or pied plus certain morphs such as pastel, axanthic, etc., will never have a white head, but certain genes thrown in will give it a white head. I find that really interesting.

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Originally Posted by Boa5

Never heard of it.

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That's 'cos I made it up :P "Holstien pied" -- like a Holstien cow, ya know? Black and white :D

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

That's 'cos I made it up :P "Holstien pied" -- like a Holstien cow, ya know? Black and white :D

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Oh ok lol... What about panda pied? I got screwed in that project because my black pastel turned to be a male.

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Originally Posted by Boa5

Oh ok lol... What about panda pied? I got screwed in that project because my black pastel turned to be a male.

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I guess people have been calling it Panda Pied, but it me "Holstien Pied" makes more sense because the spotting would be random -- a panda has a more predictable distribution of black and white.

That, and I like cows :P

It will be interesting to see how other mutations, particularly white bellied ones, effect the distribution of white in homozygous pieds. To my way of thinking pied is preventing the pigment from migrating down from the back (neural crest I think is the term). In the markered het pieds the pigment is excluded from the belly and in low white pieds it's just excluded just a little higher up the sides. Mutations like the leucistic alleles, spider, and cinnamon also have something that prevents the pigment from making it all the way to the belly so I guess it shouldn’t be surprising that the combination restricts the pigment even more.

We know that the amount of white varies from normal pied to pied but so far I think it's looking like the spider pied combo is predictably high white, with only a yellow head, right? I thought I had heard of more lesser pieds but don't remember seeing pictures to know if they have all been 100% white like the first one or not. The first few mojave pieds and the first homozygous cinnamon pied where also extremely high white, more so than any just pied I remember seeing.

I need to get a lesser to start working toward a totally pied white (the cleanest of white I understand) snake but it would be nice to know if lesser pieds are just extreme high white or most likely to be totally white like that first one RDR produced.