A story of a terrifying first feeding, with a heroine and a happy ending.

I introduced myself a few days ago here -> http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...d.php?t=121247 I'm new to caring for a BP, and the snake I acquired is a 40" adult. The breeder told me he's been on medium rats, a much bigger meal than the pinkies I've been feeding our little corn snake.

So, after bringing home my first BP on Thursday, we waited 3 days (as the breeder advised) and gave him a meal. Everything seemed to be going fine up until he started trying to swallow the front legs. He struggled for a while, and finally got the first one down. Then the real problems began.

He was already 30 minutes into trying to swallow by the time he worked past the first leg, and we were already getting concerned. Because we hadn't fed that large of a snake before, we really didn't know what to expect. We had also read and been told that BP's can handle bigger prey than we might think. Still, the rat was appropriately sized.

The second front leg was still hung up almost an hour in, when we finally decided to help. My wife grabbed the kitchen shears, and I reached in to try to clip off the arm, but I didn't get it close enough. He struggled for about another 10 minutes before my wife tried to cut it a bit closer. She cut it as close as she could without nicking the snake.

After that he grabbed it and flipped over to where that side of his jaw was underneath. From that perspective it looked like he was making some headway. He didn't flip over for another 15-20 minutes. When he did, to our horror, that &#^@* arm was still hung up in the corner of his jaw like a fish hook giving him a smiley face.

That's when we really got scared. We hummed and hawed trying to figure something out. He was obviously getting tired. Finally, at about an hour and a half in, my wife stuck her finger on the nub of an arm and pushed. The snake readjusted, slipped that side of it's jaw out, and POP!! The rest of that rat was down in less than two minutes.

First, sorry about the long story, but my wife is a heroine and her story needed to be told.

Second, I feel so freaking terrible that I allowed my snake to go through that. I will from now on be clipping those little @#$@ers off. How, after reading exhaustively on how to care for this animal, did I miss this? How, after now searching, can I still not find a warning about this? Has this ever happened to anyone else?

Third, the happy ending. The snake is, as far as I can tell, healthy and happy. He has been left alone since, and I won't be bugging him for a couple more days.

Never heard of it, and wouldn't bother cutting the legs off of his food, as this is definitely an extraordinary case. The legs should not cause a problem. They should be limp and fold back as the snake swallows. Are you sure it was throroughly thawed?

I'm just...O_o

I'm absolutely certain it was completely thawed. We picked it up from Petco at around 7pm. It was left in a bowl of slightly warm water until we fed at midnight.

My wife says that she vaguely remembers (in hindsight) hearing something many years ago about breaking the legs of a f/t mouse/rat. She keeps beating herself up for not remembering before, but I still can't even find any advice like that in my searches here.

It was hooked right in the corner of his jaw and just would not fold back.

Don't kick yourself. It sounds like a freak accident. I don't think anyone has to mangle the legs. Snakes kill and eat. They don't break the legs. I've heard they can have a little trouble when you move up a prey size at first, but it gets easier every time. Mine recently got the nose of a mouse stuck in the back right of her cheek. Took her a while, but she got it down. I know that is quite worrying and I'd have been real worried if it took her an hour! Glad you also had a happy ending.

I may have heard of this happening once... A rat's claw ended up catching on the snake and cut it so bad it died?? It is the only incident of a f/t rat killing a snake I've ever heard of. It sounded like a one time thing. I feed my balls medium rats too and this has never happened, and I wouldn't think this has happened to most others either. I've never heard of breaking limbs as a precaution... You could feed him small rats if that makes you more comfortable. I probably wouldn't feed an adult male medium rats if you feed on a weekly schedule anyway. A lot of captive animals die from obesity, fatty liver disease, etc, and their metabolism at that age doesn't need that much food.

I'm so glad to hear it ended well, of course!

Its good that u stuck around to make sure he got it down . I mean its f/t right toss and walk right .... :bolt:
I stick around and make sure he has got it down and needs no assisting there has been times when I have had to hold the mouse in the tongs when he is swallowing in so it does not fall out . Mine was not in good shape when I got him either :tears:. So for the more delicate ones I think it is wise to stay and watch and make sure U/your wife did great !!!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Tikall

You could feed him small rats if that makes you more comfortable. I probably wouldn't feed an adult male medium rats if you feed on a weekly schedule anyway. A lot of captive animals die from obesity, fatty liver disease, etc, and their metabolism at that age doesn't need that much food.

I'm so glad to hear it ended well, of course!

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x2

I have 07 YB male and i was getting him small rat on weekly basic for last not even 1 1/2 month and I see that I need switch him to every 10 days... He get over 200g on this diet (808-1035) and I wanna keep him on 1000g edge... we see... But Agree that CB animals are feed too well in many cases... I understand If You try fatten up Female before breeding season... but adult male don't need that much food... One of my friends feed his adult males with small rats every 10-14 days and they are great studs and healthy animals

Get Him 10 days break and try small rats next time... Hopefully You don't gonna have any more troubles :)

You might step down in rat size. It just might have been too big. Also I don't think I saw where he started with the head first. Normally if the head goes first the legs naturally fold back out of the way.

40+ snakes, and some females even eating LARGE rats on occasion, and I've never had this happen.

Rule of thumb--prey should be as big around as the widest part of the snake.
If they think it's too big, 90% of the time they'll spit it out after trying for a while.

There is a large range in what different people call a medium rat, so it is possible that the rat you gave the snake was quite a bit bigger than what the previous owner had been feeding it. Even so, that should not have caused the leg to get stuck like what you are describing.

I have never purchased frozen feeders from Petco or Petsmart, but I have heard that sometimes the quality is really bad. Perhaps there was something like freezer burn that caused the leg to be stiff and unable to just fold back like they usually do.

Glad everything turned out ok! In the future, I'd feed this guy smaller meals. Not so much because I think a repeat of this problem is likely, but as others have mentioned, it sounds like more food than an adult male needs.

@tonkatoyman - Yes, he swallowed head first. I can't believe I forgot to mention that.

@all others - The medium rat was smaller than the thickest portion of the snake. Like I said before, as soon as that damn arm was down, the rest of it was down in less than two minutes. I think he can easily handle the size of the prey. However, now that I know I shouldn't feed med. rats to adults anyway, I'll stick to small rats.

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Originally Posted by kc261

I have never purchased frozen feeders from Petco or Petsmart, but I have heard that sometimes the quality is really bad. Perhaps there was something like freezer burn that caused the leg to be stiff and unable to just fold back like they usually do.

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This is exactly what I was thinking. I have fed f/t from petsmart and you need to be careful that the quality is up to par. If the mouse/rat was not frozen AS SOON AS IT DIED, then there is a chance that rigor has already set in. Remember that that can happen in a remarkably short time in such a small animal. They'll start to stiffen within an hour. If a large company euthanizes many at a time, it might be awhile before they get to the freezing part. If the rodent is already experiencing rigor, it's not fresh enough for your snake, imo. Once the rodent is thawed, it should be real soft and floppy and all limbs should move readily. Buy your rodents from a reputable breeder - it'll be cheaper too!

Glad your snake is ok - hurray for your wife! I'm not sure my hubby could have done that, lol.... ;)

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

This is exactly what I was thinking. I have fed f/t from petsmart and you need to be careful that the quality is up to par. If the mouse/rat was not frozen AS SOON AS IT DIED, then there is a chance that rigor has already set in. Remember that that can happen in a remarkably short time in such a small animal. They'll start to stiffen within an hour. If a large company euthanizes many at a time, it might be awhile before they get to the freezing part. If the rodent is already experiencing rigor, it's not fresh enough for your snake, imo. Once the rodent is thawed, it should be real soft and floppy and all limbs should move readily. Buy your rodents from a reputable breeder - it'll be cheaper too!

Glad your snake is ok - hurray for your wife! I'm not sure my hubby could have done that, lol.... ;)

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THIS sounds like the most likely explanation. Somehow I never learn to stop expecting quality anything, from anyone. Where should we order from? How exactly, in 105 degree temps, am I supposed to get a frozen package to my freezer before it starts to thaw?

I have a few BPs that take large rats. One being a freakishly large male. It takes a bit longer to get it down but I have never had any hang-ups like that. I would just give slightly smaller rats from now on. I have noticed that some snakes never quite get the hang of swallowing their food the right way. I have a fire that cant swallow her rat unless I pull the tub all the way out. Every time she must use the top edge of the tub to rub against to get it down. No matter how small the rat is.

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Originally Posted by Chakajo

THIS sounds like the most likely explanation. Somehow I never learn to stop expecting quality anything, from anyone. Where should we order from? How exactly, in 105 degree temps, am I supposed to get a frozen package to my freezer before it starts to thaw?

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Well, here is the website where I order from. They are in MI but they ship nationwide. I'm sure there are other reputable rodent farms out there, but I have been extremely happy with the quality here and they are very nice and professional. www.perfectpet.net

If you are shipping the rodents, they should arrive on dry ice. If there is no ice left in the package once it arrives at your door, that does not mean the rodents are thawed yet - such is the nature of dry ice.

PLUS, a little partial thawing is not the problem. The problem is the length of time that passes between death and initial freezing - that's the part that should happen immediately. If the rodents have not completely thawed before getting into your freezer, they should be perfectly fine. The best way to preserve is actually at above-freezing temps. Deterioration halts at 33* farenheit which is above freezing.

I have had something similar to this happen, just last week.
I was feeding a f/t mouse weanling and one of the front legs was broken, i didn't think anything of it, but it was visibly bent the wrong way and even when thawed still stuck out.
Herbert struggled with it for about 20 minutes, stuck in the corner of his mouth. He kinda fell to the side, whether by accident or on purpose idk, but he hit the mouse leg and it popped into his mouth.
Now I check that the legs are plyable before feeding. I'm sure the mouse breeder didnt mean to break the leg, it just happened when he put it in the bag with the other 49 and then froze them.

ya it sounds like rigor. either the people let it sit too long before freesing or u thawed and let it get cool so rigor set in. but as long as they got it down dont worry