I think my eggs are dying.

Hi,

I haven't really been paying attention to these eggs as the candling torch is acting up and I thought substrateless would prevent problems.

And it would have if I had used a rigid grate I think.

But I couldn't find any and I think the weight of the eggs bent the flexible stuff so low the bottom of the eggs got wet. :tears:

Of course since I wasn't candling I never looked at the underside of the eggs until I noticed something didn't look right tonight;

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4...attheheck1.jpg

So I lifted up the eggs and looked underneath and saw this. :(

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2...gproblems1.jpg

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/24/eggproblems2.jpg

This is what I see when I try and candle them with a spare LED torch;

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3...gproblems3.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1...gproblems5.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2...gproblems7.jpg

I Have put down more of the flexible mesh and might have found some stuff on ebay I could use (it's filter grating - anyone know about that? ).

I just cannot find light grating in any shop anywhere over here. :taz:

Are the eggs dead already or is there anything I can do that might save them?


dr del

I am not the person to answer your question,That looks pretty bad though, I'm sorry man.

They look way too wet - like the water is splashing on the bottom. Get them further away from the water. Also - looks like there is a ton of condensation on the sides. You might want to dry that off.

Also, you may want to try off foot fungus power on the mold.

Good luck!!

They do look bad, but I've seen worse eggs that went on to hatch. Don't give up hope on them.

I hope they make it. Good luck.

How many days into incubation are these guys?

Hi,

Only 23. :(


dr del

Did you notice any movement when you candled them?

Sadly not,

But then I don't always see much movement in healthy eggs either - at least not until later in the process.

I've ordered what might work as a rigid grate from ebay but it will take a day or two at least to get here.

Could I use wire mesh in the meantime do you think or does that have problems of its own?


dr del

I'm not familiar enough with substrateless incubation to really be of any help..

Hopefully they'll pull through for you. They don't look horrible, really. The last image I'm not so sure about because the veins and overall coloration look iffy, but the first two look like they could make it to term.

I am by no means an expert, but I would say they still have a good chance to hatch. At least you noticed the issue and can correct the problem now--I wouldn't be at all shocked if they pulled through for you. Good luck and keep us updated!

Cheers,
-Matt

I think they'll be fine if you wipe that mold off and keep them from getting wet from now on. Those veins look good and those certainly aren't the worst eggs I've ever seen. Keep us posted :)

ive seen worst... but who knows.
They look good, just a little wet.
I hope they pull through man, im having a similar issue with one clutch here too. its like day 35 and i decided to try substrate-less, which i regret. Ill stick with plain ol' vermiculite from now on...

best of luck man, i hope they pull through, and you have a nice healthy clutch.:please:

Derek,

From the pictures you posted - especially the candeling pictures, they still look viable to me. Get them dried off, gently wipe off the fungus and add some anti-fungal powder to the wet areas and let them continue to incubate. I bet the babies will be fine! :hug:

I have to agree with Robin and get them cleaned up and dried off and they should be good. The veins aren't the stongest looking but they are there.

Another way to keep them dry until you get your order in is to just raise them mesh you have now. You really only need it to be high enough so the eggs don't get wet again. I'm sure you can find something around the house that will sit between the mesh and the substrate. Shot glasses come to mind, bury them in the medium enough to hold tight and then place the mesh over them. Just make sure the eggs are over the glasses as to not sag and get wet.
Again, you could use any number of house hold items for this. Good luck and keep us posted.


Gavin

I have one egg which looks way past it but still seems like its going so never give up hope.

Fingers crossed Del.

I think you caught the problem in time. Best of luck buddy!

gently rub the underside of the eggs in MYCIL athletes foot powder (available from any good chemist in the UK)...
will dry out the affected areas quickly
if the tops of the eggs start to go mouldy, a light sprinkling of the affected areas will do

as said 'it's far too wet in there', needs sorting like yesterday!
the eggs still appear viable at the moment, so all is not lost

good luck

Derek

I'm with the others, those do not look beyond saving. As for the grating, find a wholesale light distributor and ask for the grating. They will usually keep it in stock. It is used primarily in commercial lights. Not those sold for homes.
Best of luck Buddy:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Sadly not,

But then I don't always see much movement in healthy eggs either - at least not until later in the process.

I've ordered what might work as a rigid grate from ebay but it will take a day or two at least to get here.

Could I use wire mesh in the meantime do you think or does that have problems of its own?


dr del

---

Why not use the white light disfuser they sell at Home Depot/Lowes? I thought that was the best to use for the substratless method?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agent73

Why not use the white light disfuser they sell at Home Depot/Lowes? I thought that was the best to use for the substratless method?

---

cause he in the UK if remember right not sure if the same thing is over there like here . never know just might be harder to find.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agent73

Why not use the white light disfuser they sell at Home Depot/Lowes? I thought that was the best to use for the substratless method?

---

That's what he is looking for but I don't beleive Lowes or Home Depot have stores in Scotland...

Call an electrician in your area and they will either have the light grates or at least should know where to find some.


Gavin

They will be fine. I had a few eggs that looked very similar last season. Mine never actually got wet but for some reason they grew big bulges just like yours and got hard as a rock. All hatched out fine. I would maybe put some athletes foot powder on the moldy spots.

Hope they make it! :)

OK,

So I got the foot powder and treated them today.

I also made a temporary grating to keep them off the substrate until the plastic stuff arrives - and I may have finally found somewhere that stocks the stuff I see on here thanks to the hint from tonkatoyman. :D

So even if this plastic stuff isn't good enough for permanent I can order the other stuff. :banana:

There isn't much that can be done about the humidity given the style of incubator it is.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4...eatedeggs1.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/225/treatedeggs2.jpg

I'll wait a couple of days before trying to candle them again to see if there are any changes.


dr del

I hope all goes well with these guys for you!

Poke holes for circulation and burp it daily?

Hi,

Poke holes in what? :confused:

There is no lid on the egg box - I only put one on when they are due to come out fo the egg. And even then it is mainly a mesh top just to stop them roaming about the incubator.

the entire bottom of the incubator is 1/4 full of water with an aquarium heater in it. This is what is providing the heat and the huimidity.

Burping it or leaving the lid off would simply mean it wouldn't hold either humidity or heat.

When I was using vermiculite with the eggs half buried it occasionally got slightly too wet at the end of the incubation time requiring some dry vermic being added so I thought I would use substrateless to avoid that.

But I messed up by making the incubation medium a lot wetter thinking they would be sitting above it and didn't realise the flexible mesh would bend under the weight allowing the eggs to be sitting against it instead making it far to wet. :(


dr del

I believe they will be fine Derek :) Don't worry too much. Just what Robin said. That is the exact advice I would have given had I seen this post sooner. They look like the windows you get when you seperate eggs after being laid. Only a bit moldy. Healthy eggs wont allow that mold to penetrate the egg so just get some anti-fungal stuff on there, check them every day and re-apply if needed, and keep the bottoms dry. They will be ok :D

never use that method with ball eggs !!! same thing happened to me last year it cost me big time slightly moist vermiculite & then the crate very little water. always better to be dry then too wet!!hope they survive if they go green they are dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greghall

never use that method with ball eggs !!! same thing happened to me last year it cost me big time slightly moist vermiculite & then the crate very little water. always better to be dry then too wet!!hope they survive if they go green they are dead.

---

I have used that method (but with egg crate) for every clutch that I have ever produced. Never lost a single egg bacause of it. I have even used just pure water with no substrate at all and they do fine.

I use the substrateless method over hatchrite. I use the thick white light diffuser grating. My humidity is 100% and the hatchrite is drenched. My eggs stay full and plump until the last week. As long as the eggs do not touch the water they are fine with this method. Some people use a diffent method of grating (higher) and just pour water in the bottom of the incubator. No substrate at all and 100% humidity. This works too. The only problem is if the eggs actually come in contact with water.

Ebay - egg crate/reef racking. Also used in koi filters. Here, done it for you:
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__marin...=228459_228460

I've had worse looking eggs hatch - don't give up on them, just get them away from the water. As an example all these eggs hatched this year (carpets) including the 2 really manky looking ones at the top middle of the pic:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...3/IMG_0144.jpg
Fingers crossed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfan151

I have used that method (but with egg crate) for every clutch that I have ever produced. Never lost a single egg bacause of it. I have even used just pure water with no substrate at all and they do fine.

---

well I had some bad luck, used perlite with water 1/4 the way up in substrate eggs still got wet ! went green.

Im stuck on vermiculite (just clumpy) & grate works well all my clutches since have been fine.

Hi,

I have already ordered this one; :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

And the stuff I found is here if that doesn't work;

http://www.sigexpress.co.uk/Ceilings...uvre-.htm#nogo


dr del

Thats what I'm currently doing

The straight water one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I use the substrateless method over hatchrite. I use the thick white light diffuser grating. My humidity is 100% and the hatchrite is drenched. My eggs stay full and plump until the last week. As long as the eggs do not touch the water they are fine with this method. Some people use a diffent method of grating (higher) and just pour water in the bottom of the incubator. No substrate at all and 100% humidity. This works too. The only problem is if the eggs actually come in contact with water.

---

I use a double layer of light grate and never have issues. I also use vermiculite and fill it till the water touches the first layer of grate.

[IMG]http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/...s/148_4882.jpg[/IMG]


Gavin.

Hi,

Ok. I bought a new mini-maglight today so I candled them to give me something to compare against in a couple of days. I got the larger size and I think it makes candling easier. :gj:

Eggs 1 & 2 look ok;

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2...eatedeggs1.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4...eatedeggs2.jpg

But egg three had mold on the bottom again and droplets of water on the top surface as though it was sweating. :(

The veins were never strong in this one but they look thinner to me and in some places it looks as though they have disintegrated. I'll be more certain in a couple of days I guess.

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/806...eatedeggs3.jpg


dr del

Oh Dr. Del,

I don't know a thing about this, and don't have any advice to share..but this heartfelt thread is so compelling....I am praying your precious eggs thrive...kinda reminds me of being newly pregnant and worried about every little thing. I realize this is a bit diffrent, but I will be looking for updates on this, and worried until they pop their cute little heads out....and here's to hoping they will:gj:

i love the egg crat my only problem is if my eggs are not stuck together there is always one that like to roll around when I move the tub ( to check he humidity , or look in to see if i got mold). and it a pain to get them to stay upright so I take a little verm and put on top to act as aplacement holder.

I might try next year some egg foam ontop of the cratting and use water only. ( or better yet if they do great this year try a single egg un a tub and just have wet towel on the heat source to give me humidity since it runs down the doors and back on the flex ..

Hi,

I think the results are in but wanted some confirmation. :please:

This is egg 3 six days ago when this began;

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/225/treatedeggs2.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2...gproblems7.jpg

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/24/eggproblems2.jpg

Four days ago;

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/806...eatedeggs3.jpg

This is it today;

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5558/badegg3.jpg

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7708/badegg2.jpg

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8673/badegg1.jpg

The egg is sweating and noticeably less firm than the others and no matter what I do I can no longer see veins - though I can see some darker areas.

I think it is an ex-egg. :(

But the grate did arrive this morning so I replaced the metal temp stuff and can at least warn others not to make the same mistake I did in the future. :cool:


dr del

I would definitely use some of the athlete's foot powder on the remaining eggs. I'm sorry you lost one--the others are obviously still alive, so there's always hope.
Definitely a warning taken about substrateless incubation--watch the water level, and no splashing!

Hi, I hope they make it, and best of luck to you, being a novice ant this being my first year of breading i do have a question though. ive noticed you turned the egg over to show the bottom of it to us, but i read to not turn the egg after it has been laid or the air bubble inside will rupture?

Hi,

There is a risk of tearing veins loose from the inside of the shell I think?

But to be honest I was carefull and slow the first time for treating them with the powder and notsomuch today. :rolleyes:

Egg number 3 is the only one that still has problems with mould as far as I can tell.

This is day 30 for the clutch so I'm hoping no further interaction will be needed once I toss this egg. :please:


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greghall

well I had some bad luck, used perlite with water 1/4 the way up in substrate eggs still got wet ! went green.

---

Did you put anything between the eggs and the perlite? The perlite will soak up the water and make the eggs too wet if you let the eggs come in contact with it. The only reason for perlite with this method is to keep the water from sloshing around when you move the box. The eggs should not be anywhere near it.

Not sure why it started, very sorry to hear it.

However, I disagree with your picture taking, you turned the egg upside-down...that's, as I've always been taught, very bad. You can detach the yolk.
(I could be wrong, but I heard it from quite a few breeders)

Sorry to hear though, really sucks. Hope the others are doing well, keep the bottoms dry!:please:

Hi,

And the downward spiral coontinues.

The second egg is now looking dubious and it is firmly attatched to the one remaining good egg.

I treated with the foot powder again but I'm starting to think this clutch is a goner. :(

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4939/badeggz1.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4348/badeggz2.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5162/badeggz3.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4766/badeggz4.jpg


dr del

Hey dr del,

Just wanted to say that i used your hot glue technique for thermometer probe and I love the idea, and I was actually off a little more then I thought in terms of what they were really sitting on so thanks so much for the great advice!!

BUT!

Why are you incubating like this? Why not use some verm? This is my first breeding season and my clutch is 24 days old and looking great with just that. I am just wondering why your using this method for incubating seems kinda weird looking explain please lol

Hi,

I used vermiculite with the eggs buried in it for all my clutches before this but noticed that the verm got a little too wet near the end of incubation beacuse of the constantly 100% humidity from the resevoir of water.

Since this wet substrate happens with the substrateless method as well I figured the idea of keeping the eggs suspended off the medium would solve it.

I then goofed with the method of achieving that. :(

If I had used the right type of grating from the start I think all would have been well.


dr del