Assist Feeding??

Alright so I just got a female pastel back on 4/3/2010. She was 778g when I got her and she hasn't eating since. I've tried every trick in the book and gotten a few strikes out of her but thats it. It doesn't bother me when my snakes go off feed for some time but this girl was starting to look skinny so I decided to throw her on the scale. She dropped down to 682g in less than 2 months.

I've never had to assist feed but I talked to the breeder I got her from and he said every once in a while if a snake starts to drop weight he will put a mouse/rat in their mouth just to get them going again. I decided to try this tonite with a rat pup and boy she was not a happy camper! She kept it down and seems to be doing just fine but I've never experienced a snake dropping that much weight so quickly.

What do you guys think about this? Anyone been in the same boat?

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Originally Posted by ericzerka24

What do you guys think about this? Anyone been in the same boat?

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I haven't had to do this yet, so all I can say is good luck getting this girl back on feed. The next time she poops, maybe take it to the vet for a fecal exam to make sure she doesn't have any internal parasites...

Tried it for 2 imported hatchlings and it didn't work the first 2 times I tried it, I guess they just werent hungry because after that they struck with no problem.

I only assist feed hatchlings that had never taken a rodent. snakes that go off feed will eat when they are ready provided that they are healthy and your temps, humidity and ect... are correct.

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Originally Posted by don15681

I only assist feed hatchlings that had never taken a rodent. snakes that go off feed will eat when they are ready provided that they are healthy and your temps, humidity and ect... are correct.

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I agree. I wouldn't assist feed a snake that has proven it can eat on its own.

A ~100g drop for a snake that size really isn't that much. Thats only ~12% of the snakes body weight, which is about 1-2 weeks worth of food.

If the first weight was a "full" weight then it is possible the weight loss is just due to waste elimination. Remember these snakes can eat 10% or more of their body weight in one meal, then go several meals before pooping. Plus they pee a lot at one time, and water is heavy. So that adds up to a lot of weight loss just from one big pee/poo.

If the snake continues to lose weight and/or show other signs of illness, then I'd start to worry. Until then, I'd just assume it is a feeding strike related to the stress of adjusting to her new home. Do everything you can to make sure her temps & humidity are spot on, she has adequate hides, etc., and then just wait it out. Adding stress by assist feeding her doesn't seem like a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I agree. I wouldn't assist feed a snake that has proven it can eat on its own.

A ~100g drop for a snake that size really isn't that much. Thats only ~12% of the snakes body weight, which is about 1-2 weeks worth of food.

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Well 100g in just under 2 months is a little different.

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Originally Posted by kc261

If the first weight was a "full" weight then it is possible the weight loss is just due to waste elimination. Remember these snakes can eat 10% or more of their body weight in one meal, then go several meals before pooping. Plus they pee a lot at one time, and water is heavy. So that adds up to a lot of weight loss just from one big pee/poo.

If the snake continues to lose weight and/or show other signs of illness, then I'd start to worry. Until then, I'd just assume it is a feeding strike related to the stress of adjusting to her new home. Do everything you can to make sure her temps & humidity are spot on, she has adequate hides, etc., and then just wait it out. Adding stress by assist feeding her doesn't seem like a good idea.

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The first weight was an empty weight. The guy I got her from said she was off feed at the time. I have a 1,600g female that was off feed for the last 6 months and is now back to pounding food. It could have something to do with the time of the year but when they lose that much weight so quickly I figured might as well give it a shot.

I keep most of my snakes in a snake rack. Its all hooked to a helix with belly heat in the back of the tubs. I always have full sheds and all my other snakes are very healthy.

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Originally Posted by DJ_Bizarre

Tried it for 2 imported hatchlings and it didn't work the first 2 times I tried it, I guess they just werent hungry because after that they struck with no problem.

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How much longer after you tried this did they eat?

The breeder I got her from said that just getting the taste of food back in there mouth can get them going again.

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Originally Posted by ericzerka24

Well 100g in just under 2 months is a little different.

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I don't really think so. I think a 100g weight loss over 2 months for an off feed snake that is nearly 800g sounds pretty normal.

Offer live and SMALLER meals. Dont offer anything large till feeding resumes. And also offer every 10-14 days to give more time in-between each offer.

Brian Gundy's mentioned that males will go off feed during the breeding season, not go back on, and die. Wouldn't you want to assist feed at some point?

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

Brian Gundy's mentioned that males will go off feed during the breeding season, not go back on, and die. Wouldn't you want to assist feed at some point?

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I have never heard of this happening. I have heard of them going off feed but they always get back on feed at some point assuming all of the husbandry is on point.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I don't really think so. I think a 100g weight loss over 2 months for an off feed snake that is nearly 800g sounds pretty normal.

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Really? I've never experienced them losing that much so I was concerned. She is drinking water so I'm guessing she is just on a fast for now.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Offer live and SMALLER meals. Dont offer anything large till feeding resumes. And also offer every 10-14 days to give more time in-between each offer.

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Tried many different sizes. Tried with with mice, rats, and ASF's. I use newspaper for bedding and they guy I got her from used cypress mulch. I just changed her over to cypress today and I'm gunna wait about 2 weeks and try again.

Ive heard that gerbils can help with a fast to so I might give that a shot.

I would not try a gerbil unless you have a steady supply of them and can afford them.

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

Brian Gundy's mentioned that males will go off feed during the breeding season, not go back on, and die. Wouldn't you want to assist feed at some point?

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if a male didn't eat after breeding season and died, I bet it lost a whole lot more than 100 grams, which is a little less than 4 ounces. I have alot of males that eat durning breeding season and they are being used for breeding.

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

Brian Gundy's mentioned that males will go off feed during the breeding season, not go back on, and die. Wouldn't you want to assist feed at some point?

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if a male died from not eating after breeding season, I bet it lost alot more than 100 grams. I breed a 6 month old male fire last year which is pretty young, I breed him only to one female. I heard of breeding young snakes to death by breeding them to too many females.

Well, wouldn't you want to assist feed, rather than let it die if it were going to?

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

Well, wouldn't you want to assist feed, rather than let it die if it were going to?

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Well obviously if it was on the verge of death, this snake is clearly not.

Right. Sorry, my question was more of a hypothetical. The fact that he apparently lets them starve to death somewhat disturbed me. And that I keep seeing people say they would never assist feed a snake that has eaten on it's own before. I think, "You'd have to at some point, wouldn't you?"

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

Right. Sorry, my question was more of a hypothetical. The fact that he apparently lets them starve to death somewhat disturbed me. And that I keep seeing people say they would never assist feed a snake that has eaten on it's own before. I think, "You'd have to at some point, wouldn't you?"

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I see your point. But it would have to be pretty extreme for an adult snake to require assist feeding. They can sometimes go over a year without eating and then start back up again.

On the other hand, if a snake is starving itself to death there is probably another issue other then "its breeding season".

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

probably another issue

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That's what I thought too, but I think that might be a whole 'nother discussion...

To the OP. I would think that the assisting you have already done may have caused more harm than good. By that I mean that you may have stressed the snake out more, and it will remain off feed for a while. The snake was stressed from changing locations, and still needs to adapt to it's new environment. No matter how close you try to get things the previous owner, there are very small things that we cannot duplicate, such as minor temp swings in the ambient air, barometric pressure changes, lighting, smells, etc.

These snakes can go off feed for a long time. By that I mean that I have had one off feed for 55 weeks before eating again, and I have heard of occurances that lasted up to 24 months. I have some 5 year old females that are only 700 grams. They just don't eat alot. I also have a few breeder males that only eat 3-5 times per year. Each snake is different, but I have yet to have one die of starvation, especially when one food is introduced to them.

As another poster stated, try offering them every 14-21 days, so as not to stress them out by the presence of an unwated guest (if they are not hungry, then the live rodent is a nuissance). Leave it in for no longer than 1 hour and remove it. As also previously stated, make sureit is a small meal. My last advice would be to try and change up the offering time. If you normally feed in the evening, try mid day and morning feedings.

I hope some of that helped.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I would not try a gerbil unless you have a steady supply of them and can afford them.

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As stated above, I have animals that were fed a different prey item than normal to get them eating again. They became imprinted on that food, and will now eat nothing but ASF's, even though they fed on rats for three years before their first ASF. Be careful with that, and if you tried a Gerbil, unless you want to have an expensive feed bill, you might want to think of setting up a small gerbil breeding colony.

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

Well, wouldn't you want to assist feed, rather than let it die if it were going to?

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I personally would never try this. As was stated earlier in the thread, if the animal does not want to feed, and the animal died, more than likely there was something else wrong. There is a chance that if something else is wrong, what you will end up doing is assist feeding that animal until you tire of doing that, and it will probably die then. This is the reason it is paramount to watch your animals closely, especially during breeding season, for health, and treat issues accordingly.

Just my .02,

She's doing just fine and it has been 2 days. I've never seen a thread that someone killed their snake by assist feeding it. People make such a big deal out of it and I've never heard any negative outcome from it.

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Originally Posted by ericzerka24

She's doing just fine and it has been 2 days. I've never seen a thread that someone killed their snake by assist feeding it. People make such a big deal out of it and I've never heard any negative outcome from it.

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it's not about killing your snake or not. it's about assist feeding a snake that truely needs assist feed and leaving a snake thats off feed alone. I assist feed hatchlings that won't eat. I give them time to feed on their own also. If all of a clutch eats but one hatchling, I don't start jamming food into his mouth cause he should be eating like the others. I wait 30 days after shed (depending on the hatchlings weight) before assist feeding. if I have an adult ball not eating I look at my charts at the snakes weight. not much weight lost, I wait, losing weight for no reason that I can see after looking over the snake, a trip to the vets. I had female morphs that are slow at putting the weight on, it sucks, but jamming food into their mouths isn't the answer.

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Originally Posted by ericzerka24

She's doing just fine and it has been 2 days. I've never seen a thread that someone killed their snake by assist feeding it. People make such a big deal out of it and I've never heard any negative outcome from it.

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While you may have never seen a thread about, many things happen in this hobby that are not on the internet. With that said, I have never killed a snake by assisting, but it is possible. I have seen someone loose control of some hemostats and poke them right through the neck of the snake from the inside. The snake healed, but there were some serious risks of infection there.

I don't believe abyone is trying to insult you, or tell you that you did wrong. I think there are many things that can be done with snakes that stray from the norm, but having all of the issues and consequences for actions up front, help for making more informed decisions.

I'm certainly not the voice of experience around here, but that sounds like force feeding to me. Do you mean they stabbed the snake through the neck with hemostats in the process of opening the snakes jaws and placing a dead rodent's head in it's mouth? Or was it in the process of jamming a dead rodent down it's throat?

They were putting the rodent into the mouth, and lost the grip on the rodent, and next thing you know: hemostats sticking out the wrong end. It can be dangerous, and should be a very careful process.

Well, wow.

Thats why you don't use hemostats to do so. I used my fingers and once it was partially in her mouth she proceeded to swallow it the rest of the way. Its not like I rammed it down her throat lol

I personally dont think you should ever resort to assist feeding. it really stresses out your snake more than it really is.

-Payson!

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Originally Posted by Paysons Bps

I personally dont think you should ever resort to assist feeding. it really stresses out your snake more than it really is.

-Payson!

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Once again, and let it starve itself to death?

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Originally Posted by Paysons Bps

I personally dont think you should ever resort to assist feeding. it really stresses out your snake more than it really is.

-Payson!

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You have much to learn yet little grasshopper

I got 0.3 het albinos that have been assist fed..NEVER AGAIN!! What makes it worse..after going out & specificly buying pregnant mice, cage & accessories, to try to get them feeding on live pinkies..it turns out tonight that I actually have 2.1 het albinos..I wouldnt have taken them if I knew the correct sexes

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

I got 0.3 het albinos that have been assist fed..NEVER AGAIN!! What makes it worse..after going out & specificly buying pregnant mice, cage & accessories, to try to get them feeding on live pinkies..it turns out tonight that I actually have 2.1 het albinos..I wouldnt have taken them if I knew the correct sexes

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Why make it sound like its hard task. One of the easiest things to do when getting them started. Why would you be feeding live mice pinkies to a ball python

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Why make it sound like its hard task. One of the easiest things to do when getting them started. Why would you be feeding live mice pinkies to a ball python

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They were born last August..been assist fed from day one by the breeder, got them in March & dont think they have a clue how to feed themselfs ..not easy assist feeders either..these are hard work, was advised to try getting them going on pinkys..I normaly wouldnt dream of feeding pinkies to them but got to try what ever
I have another 09 het female that weighs in at a kilo..the smallest of this trio is an amazing 124g & is an 09

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

They were born last August..been assist fed from day one by the breeder, got them in March & dont think they have a clue how to feed themselfs ..not easy assist feeders either..these are hard work, was advised to try getting them going on pinkys..I normaly wouldnt dream of feeding pinkies to them but got to try what ever
I have another 09 het female that weighs in at a kilo..the smallest of this trio is an amazing 124g & is an 09

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Why would you buy them know this? lol

Well she just took her first meal on her own. Looks like maybe the assist feeding triggered something after all.:banana:

Whoo! Lucky you. :banana:

i know im pretty pumped especially after hearing all the negative feedback from assist feeding.

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Originally Posted by ericzerka24

i know im pretty pumped especially after hearing all the negative feedback from assist feeding.

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There is no negatives for assist feeding. Either the snake is assisted and lives or it dont eat and dies your choice.

Usually 1-3 assist feeds they get the idea

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

There is no negatives for assist feeding. Either the snake is assisted and lives or it dont eat and dies your choice.

Usually 1-3 assist feeds they get the idea

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I'm definitely a firm believer that in the right situation, it can be benificial. The breeder I got her from said he has to do it every now and then with his ball pythons. This is the main reason that he is more into his retics. Those suckers are garbage disposals lol