Slug Outs

This is my first breeding season and while it started off slow the last week have been eggaliciouis. My question though is about slugs, Ive had a few and Im wondering how many is more than usual and if I should be double checking my husbandry or something else? Out of 5 clutchs Ive had 1 complete slug out, and another clutch that looks like a complete slug out (might be 1 viable egg), Ive also had two other slugs in my three other clutches.

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Originally Posted by donkiez

This is my first breeding season and while it started off slow the last week have been eggaliciouis. My question though is about slugs, Ive had a few and Im wondering how many is more than usual and if I should be double checking my husbandry or something else? Out of 5 clutchs Ive had 1 complete slug out, and another clutch that looks like a complete slug out (might be 1 viable egg), Ive also had two other slugs in my three other clutches.

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Did you cool your animals before breeding? What is your hot spot at?

No I didnt cool them because they are in the basement which gets kind of cold anyway. Hot spots are 90ish. I was under the assumption though that cooling just simulates the natural breeding environment to stimulate their breeding response, which was pretty much accomplished. Am I wrong?

i know people that dont cool, and it works for them, i myself cool because it gets my girl in the mood....i dont think anyone really knows why girls slug out sometimes, or why some people get more slugs than others, i dont *believe* its a husbandry issue, but im not an expert.

I had one girl slug out this season as well and another lay 4 slugs and 2 "boob eggs" Those two are at day 34 and look pitiful but there is a living snake in each LOL. Yesterday I had a female lay 5 perfect eggs and 1 slug.

I use belly heat on my animals but I talked to one breeder in my area that says since he switched to back heat he has cut down on his slugs considerably. Maybe a coincedance? Not sure. I think my next rack may be back heat tho.

were your females too young maybe? or under/over weight?

I did NOT cool this year...and I have not had a single female slug out. I have had slugs with some clutches--but just one with each, and only 2 or 3 total.
Last year I did have a female slug out--I cooled last year.

This year has definitely convinced me that cooling is not only unnecessary, it might even be counterproductive. I have had more bred females lay eggs this year than in years past (this is my first year not cooling).

I use belly heat.

All my females are big girls rangeing from 1400g to 3000g. I aquired them all last summer so I was only half expecting them to go for me this year anyway, so far Im 5/8 have laid and two more look very promising. So they were getting it on! I was wondering if maybe they slugged because they new to my collection and still semi stressed about their new enviornment.... As far as I can tell though their husbandry is perfect.

My actual stats so far are
1st clutch, 7 of 10 hatched, 2 bad eggs 1 slug.
2nd, 5 good eggs 1 slug
3rd, 6 slugs
4th, 1 good egg 5 slugs
5th, 6 good eggs.

Not terrible but still not as good as I hoped.

For those of you who have breed mutiple season, do you notice the same females laying sluggs season to season or does it seem to be random?

Are your slugs mostly from the smaller females? Just wondering if the size has anything to do with it.

Size does not appear to the issue here. One of my biggest females was 6 slugs 0 good eggs, and my smallest just laid 6 good eggs with 0 slugs. I also use belly heat for what its worth.

Im kind of just chalking this up to luck of the draw, with the possibility of them being new additions adding to it. I also just had another clutch last night with no slugs my odds arnt looking as bad as they were a few days ago.

I would still like to know what other peoples odds on slugs and slug outs are and if they notice the same females dropping slugs every year.

Thanks guys this has been a helpful thread for me.

Slugs are unfertilized and or undeveloped eggs. Did you leave the male in long enough?

I've seen slugs in clutches from all the top BP breeders in the US. Which tells me that no one really has an idea of any things we can change husbandry wise to reduce the chances and numbers of slugs.

The female could have a hard time retaining viable sperm long enough, the male could have low fertility, the timing of breeding could be off.... lots of stuff.

One thing I have seen is it seems much more likely to get slugs when breeding a male to multiple females. And in all reptiles I've worked with obese animals always have lower fertility.

What about your tub size? Do you use 32 qts or 40 something quarts? I have been discussing this with a friend and he is having issues with slugs that he most definitely should not be having. He does everything exactly how it should be done, all his females are perfect weight, not fat, not thin, and his girls in the 32 qt have had a few slugs and his girls in the 40 something qts have had perfect eggs. I also kept my girl in a 32qt and had too eggs end up being too weak and dying on me. They seemed to have underdeveloped veins that eventually faded away by day 23.

Just a theory, I don't know if anyone else has had issues with the 32qt and slugs.

This is only my second year doing this but I keep some of my females in 32qt tubs and two of them are brooding their eggs in those tubs. I had no slugs from ball pythons last year or this year. I think getting slugs has more to do with fertility of the parents than the dimensions of the enclosures they are kept in.

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Originally Posted by Quiet Tempest

This is only my second year doing this but I keep some of my females in 32qt tubs and two of them are brooding their eggs in those tubs. I had no slugs from ball pythons last year or this year. I think getting slugs has more to do with fertility of the parents than the dimensions of the enclosures they are kept in.

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What about in my case? I assume they are still considered slugs? All of my eggs were great until day 18 when I noticed one starting to deflate and turn green and I could see the veins disintegrating on the second egg when I candled it. The second egg lasted till day 23, but I lost it too. They all had veins from day one, but those two eggs had much smaller/fewer veins. Do you think that was because of the parent's fertility? :confused:

We were thinking is was an issue with thermoregulating in the smaller tubs.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

What about in my case? I assume they are still considered slugs? All of my eggs were great until day 18 when I noticed one starting to deflate and turn green and I could see the veins disintegrating on the second egg when I candled it. The second egg lasted till day 23, but I lost it too. They all had veins from day one, but those two eggs had much smaller/fewer veins. Do you think that was because of the parent's fertility? :confused:

We were thinking is was an issue with thermoregulating in the smaller tubs.

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Unless there was something wrong with the conditions the eggs were being kept in (high temperature spike, for example), it might go back to one or both of the parents. When I think of eggs dying early in incubation, I think of miscarriage. I know the process is very different, but there are similarities too and with miscarriage it often goes back to the fertility and reproductive health of the parents.

I use 4" flexwatt under the tubs in my rack and my thermostat is set at 91F. The temperature in the tubs is reading 89F at the warm end and at 78F at the cool end. Not sure if that gives any insight at all, but it's what I'm working with. I prefer keeping things a little cooler when I can because the room the rack is kept in can heat up quite a bit during the summer months if a certain someone in my household decides to be cost-conscious and turns the a/c off while we're away.

Good stuff guys.

Just to clarify I am talking about dead/unfertilized little rock eggs not eggs that dont make it through the incubator.

During a season, what you consider keeping a male in with a female long enough? My breeding female to male ratio is roughly 1 male 3 females (more or less depending on what Im going for), I kept each male in with a female for a week or two then rotated the male. So off the top of my head I would say a total of 1.5weeks per month per female.

Another things that might be worth considering is my first cluth was in late march and had no slugs, and all 6 of my others have come within the last week. (busy week), so counting backwards does that mean they were all impregnated around Feb/March?

Im also using 4" flex watt, belly heat. Temps set to 91, hot spot measures around 88-91 almost year around.

Tub sizes are the 40gallon ones.