Confused and need help

I have what I always believed to be a Male BP who is now 19 years old. We had 2 at one time and have had him since he was approximately 1 year old. At this point I am not certain if we had a male and female or not. But our other BP died over 10 years ago and he has not been around another snake since. We do have a ghost corn snake in the same room but not in the same tank. Anyway, "he" always ate pretty well, except during a shed of course, but after this last shed "he" would not eat. He acted hungry but struck once and gave up. We were getting a little worried and were going to try a dead mouse. He usually prefers live food.

This morning we found what we have now identified as an egg, in the far side of the tank.

We are shocked. "He" had some blood on his side, about 4-6 inches from his tail. We gave him a lukewarm bath and washed off most of the blood. Did not see anything that looked like a wound.
Any clue as to what happened or what I should do now?
Our vet is good but doesn't have a lot of experience with snakes.

Well it sounds like your male is a female....lol. Try to take a pic of this for us to take a look at. Snake eggs are leathery. They will drop non fertile eggs sometimes. Make sure after you take it out...you clean everything with very hot water and soap....you need to disinfect everything. Then give your snake a bath. This gets the smell of the egg outta there so that your snake will eat. Wow kudo's to you on keeping a snake that long. Would love to see pics!!

Could you post up a picture of the egg?

It may have been a ball of urea that got stuck then tore him a bit on the way out.

Here are some pictures. Thank you for any help you can give.

http://thumbp7.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.co...=813&fid=Inbox

I am not sure how to add a picture. Let me know if this works.

http://thumbp7.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.co...=813&fid=Inbox

http://thumbp7.mail.vip.ac4.yahoo.co...=813&fid=Inbox

You need to upload the photos to a photo sharing site like photobucket or flickr, or you can upload them to your user gallery here on bp.net.

We cannot see your pic but I would tend to agree that it is most likely a large urate. Sometimes when they get a bit dehydrated it can be rather difficult to pass thus the blood. A bath or soaking is a good thing as it will help rehydrate her.

The other reason to think its a urate is eggs usually come in groups of at least 4

I added the pictures to my member's gallery (at least I think it worked).
Let me know if you can see them now.

What is a urate?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../1/3/8/egg.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...nce_s_tail.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...maged_area.jpg

There ya go.

To me, that looks like an egg. The pictures of the blood on the tail. Was it just blood? Could you wash it off? From the pictures, it looks pretty bad :(

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Originally Posted by MaggieMay

I added the pictures to my member's gallery (at least I think it worked).
Let me know if you can see them now.

What is a urate?

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Here it is (the picture):

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../1/3/8/egg.jpg

It looks like a "slug" (which is a dead, infertile egg). Here is what a slug looks like:

http://www.ballpython.ca/images/bree...late_egg_b.jpg

What do you think?

Oh, and urates are when the snake uses the restroom.

It doesn't look like a "slug" at all. I think you are right, it is an egg.

We did give her a bath but could not wash off all the blood. I was afraid to hurt her but she did not flinch at all. Did not act like it hurt when I was rubbing the spot under the warm water. I did not use anything except water. I bring her in the shower with me sometimes, when she doesn't shed completely. She always seems to like it.

Do you think she might lay more?

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Originally Posted by MaggieMay

It doesn't look like a "slug" at all. I think you are right, it is an egg.

We did give her a bath but could not wash off all the blood. I was afraid to hurt her but she did not flinch at all. Did not act like it hurt when I was rubbing the spot under the warm water. I did not use anything except water. I bring her in the shower with me sometimes, when she doesn't shed completely. She always seems to like it.

Do you think she might lay more?

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From the pictures Kaorte posted? I think she will, just based on her "big" and "round" her tail looks. It doesn't look normal, I think she will lay more. It is very uncommon for them to lay only one egg.

Also, I have read about people using Johnson's Baby Shampoo on their snakes to get the egg-scent off. Maybe that will work with the blood?

A slug is an infertile egg. They don't always look like the one sadistic serpent posted. The egg in question is most definitely infertile, which means it is a slug.

....Do you mean you have the snake in the shower with you when YOU are taking a shower? or just to bathe the snake.

Those could very well be burns then. The water we shower with is well over 100*F and that is plenty to burn your snake.

Has she been with another snake at all in the last year or so? They generally don't lay eggs at all unless they have been with a male.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

A slug is an infertile egg. They don't always look like the one sadistic serpent posted. The egg in question is most definitely infertile, which means it is a slug.

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Sorry Kaorte, I was looking for some good pictures of slugs on the Internet. That is the only I could find :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sadistic Serpent

Sorry Kaorte, I was looking for some good pictures of slugs on the Internet. That is the only I could find :P

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lol don't be sorry :P It was a good example! Slugs can differ quite a bit. From boob eggs to those big solid yellow brown things, to deflated looking eggs.

Definitely not a burn, but I would keep an eye on her for laying more, and yes try a mild soap to get the blood off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

A slug is an infertile egg. They don't always look like the one sadistic serpent posted. The egg in question is most definitely infertile, which means it is a slug.

....Do you mean you have the snake in the shower with you when YOU are taking a shower? or just to bathe the snake.

Those could very well be burns then. The water we shower with is well over 100*F and that is plenty to burn your snake.

Has she been with another snake at all in the last year or so? They generally don't lay eggs at all unless they have been with a male.

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She has not been with another snake in over 10 years.

The pictures where taken just after we found the egg. She has not been in the shower lately and we have never seen any redness, sores or blood after her shower.

We always make sure the water is not hot at all, more slightly lukewarm to the touch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

lol don't be sorry :P It was a good example! Slugs can differ quite a bit. From boob eggs to those big solid yellow brown things, to deflated looking eggs.

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Haha, thanks, you learn new things everyday! I had no idea there were things called "boob eggs"!

Pardon my manners! Welcome to BP.net :)

Can you feel any more eggs inside her body? just lightly feel her belly near her vent. If she has any more eggs, they need to be passed soon. Otherwise, a vet visit is in your future.

Here is another picture of a slug: http://www.ballpython.ca/images/bree...al/slugs_s.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Can you feel any more eggs inside her body? just lightly feel her belly near her vent. If she has any more eggs, they need to be passed soon. Otherwise, a vet visit is in your future.

Here is another picture of a slug: http://www.ballpython.ca/images/bree...al/slugs_s.jpg

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Nope. Didn't feel anything. I think we may need to check with our vet, just in case.

Probably just keep an eye on her until Tuesday when the vet opens.

I will try the soap and water. Thank you everyone, for all the great help.

The way she looks down there I would venture to guess there is a couple more. She is very big down at the base of the tail. If that doesn't get better soon you should get to the vet as they can become egg bound. Not to scare you or anything but just to let you know. I believe there is a "how to" deflate it and get it out on here...but that scares even me to try.

Some of the more exp. ppl can pipe in here....would a warm soak in a tub help???

Is this thing hard or squishy? A slug will be squishy and a urate will be hard and much denser.

I have seen a snake become very backed up from a large urate and swell up with poop and what not. What looks like what could be more eggs could actually be a larger urate and/or back up feces. Since this snake has not been paired I still lean towards that as it is more probable.

I would soak her in luke warm water(88-90) half way up her body in a tub for several hours. Even if they are slugs this wont hurt her. If she is blocked up it should help break the dam and give him tremendous relief.

Hard died up urates can scrape and cut as they are released and this could cause bleeding(slugs not so much) and yes they can get as large as a slug when dehydration occurs. Sometimes a vet has to go in there and break them up so they can come out. I have had this happen with a CH import once.

Cant hurt to soak, just never too hot;)

Looks like a slug to me.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

The way she looks down there I would venture to guess there is a couple more. She is very big down at the base of the tail. If that doesn't get better soon you should get to the vet as they can become egg bound. Not to scare you or anything but just to let you know. I believe there is a "how to" deflate it and get it out on here...but that scares even me to try.

Some of the more exp. ppl can pipe in here....would a warm soak in a tub help???

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We did try soaking her in some warm water, dried her off and put her back in her tank to rest. This morning she is coiled around what looks like 4 more eggs. I have not been able to get too close because she has been very protective but it actually looks like 1 or 2 may not be slugs. Is that even possible??

I do not have an incubator (and can't really afford one right now). If there is a chance one is viable, I don't want to remove it if she won't take it back.

Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by MaggieMay

We did try soaking her in some warm water, dried her off and put her back in her tank to rest. This morning she is coiled around what looks like 4 more eggs. I have not been able to get too close because she has been very protective but it actually looks like 1 or 2 may not be slugs. Is that even possible??

I do not have an incubator (and can't really afford one right now). If there is a chance one is viable, I don't want to remove it if she won't take it back.

Any ideas?

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If she hasn't been with a male in over seven years, the eggs have no chance of being fertile. You can just throw them away, and make sure the get the smell of the eggs out of the tank and off of her.

There is no way that the eggs are fertile. They can retain sperm, but not for 10 years.

WOW!! 10yrs and now laying eggs?? I know the general consensus is that they couldn't be fertile, but just what if???? :O

I'd love to see pics of the remaining eggs.

What would cause a snake that had never been bred or hadn't even been around a male for so long to spontaneously lay like this?

Hi,

I'm pretty sure we have had someone reporting a snake laying that had never been with a male.

If I could spell parthenogenesis the same way twice I'd search for it. :oops:


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

WOW!! 10yrs and now laying eggs?? I know the general consensus is that they couldn't be fertile, but just what if???? :O

I'd love to see pics of the remaining eggs.

What would cause a snake that had never been bred or hadn't even been around a male for so long to spontaneously lay like this?

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The thing that is really weird to us is having her for 18 years (she was about 1 year old when we got her), and just now finding out this way that she is not a male.

I am not certain the other BP we had was a male but I am pretty sure they were different. We certainly never saw them mate.

It would be cool if the eggs were fertile but we checked and they are not.

I am curious to know why she waited this long and decided to start laying eggs now. Does anyone have any idea?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

WOW!! 10yrs and now laying eggs?? I know the general consensus is that they couldn't be fertile, but just what if???? :O

I'd love to see pics of the remaining eggs.

What would cause a snake that had never been bred or hadn't even been around a male for so long to spontaneously lay like this?

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Added pictures to my gallery. There was another egg but it broke.

They all look infertile to me. I don't see how they could possibly be fertile anyway.


You can candle them just to make sure..

3 days ago my BP layed 5 or 6 eggs which she is now protecting within her coils. She left me in no doubt that my attention was unwelcome. I tried to move her as she's excavated the substrate from her heatmat and is keep the eggs on it.

The main reason I mention it here is that she is 16 years old (I got her when she was about 6 months old) and has never seen a male BP in that time.

When I can persuade her to give up the eggs I'll check them (just in case of what we used to call a miracle) and get back to you.

I should say that the only change in her routine or environment is that I left her UV light off over the winter so she may have been more tuned in to daylight length.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baldie

3 days ago my BP layed 5 or 6 eggs which she is now protecting within her coils. She left me in no doubt that my attention was unwelcome. I tried to move her as she's excavated the substrate from her heatmat and is keep the eggs on it.

The main reason I mention it here is that she is 16 years old (I got her when she was about 6 months old) and has never seen a male BP in that time.

When I can persuade her to give up the eggs I'll check them (just in case of what we used to call a miracle) and get back to you.

I should say that the only change in her routine or environment is that I left her UV light off over the winter so she may have been more tuned in to daylight length.

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Were you able to get her off the eggs?

when I tried yesterday she was "twitching" which I assume was an attempt to keep them warm. I'm going to try again shortly so I can candle them just to be sure they're duds.

Their all slugs. Females once sexually mature will often throughout their life lay eggs from their menstrual cycle. In turn you get unfertilized eggs in the end.


More common in colubrids than pythons but it DOES happen

when I finally got round to candling them I found she had layed 7 eggs and 1 obvious slug. 3 of the eggs had red veins in them so I've moved them to an incubator but 1 of the 3 is quite collapsed. I spoke with my local expert who seemed to think it was worth persevering. I'll let you know if anything happens.

Sweet. Dr. Del mentioned this a while ago, but no one seems to have paid any attention to it. Parthenogenesis. Google it.